So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

[Neviutz]

Originally Posted by ddrxero64

It really is, and I will stand by my decision. I don't know who in the world needs an assistant to create simfiles. Please do tell me, what is it that you "prepare" for him that he's unable to do himself? Simfile creating isn't a career, and it isn't one person teaches, especially when they are very misled in their information. I don't even mean the simfiles themselves, setting certain options in SM, referring people to other communities, etc. I'm glad you were able to read this though, I really hope it's given some insight.

If you're going to support someone, support them. But if you're going to do their job for them, you might as well make them look incapable of doing it themselves.

He does not necessarily needs an assistant to create his files, however having one only makes releasing files more convenient and faster.
I mean, you know that what I 'prepare' for him is basically stuff he can easily do by himself, or rather, stuff he did by himself for a very long time already before I met him. One of the reasons why I am doing this now instead of him is basically just the fact that I have by far more time than he does since he has a very busy real life outside of SM. So helping him with that just makes him able to release files a bit faster and I honestly don't see a problem with that.

Originally Posted by ddrxero64

Wonder why he PM'd you and not anyone else...

Have you probably thought about the possibility that it was Jousway who PM'd him before?

[Shikari]

So, since this thread is still active and getting responses, I'll just post it here, instead of making a thread:


I was thinking about a whole new Stepmania community, like ODI is/was back in the days. I know we have both KBO and FFR, but a full community, centered only on Stepmania, from playing to stepping, would be cool to gather new and old people. A place where we could discuss everything about this game we play, and come up with "solutions" to keep Stepmania alive and make it more popular, bringing even more people. I don't care if we are going to have pad files, keyboard files, anime files, just a place for Stepmania, with subforums for each file "category".

I hope this post doesn't get ignored, even if it gets a "well, not happening" reply.

[Staiain]

Originally Posted by Shikari

So, since this thread is still active and getting responses, I'll just post it here, instead of making a thread:


I was thinking about a whole new Stepmania community, like ODI is/was back in the days. I know we have both KBO and FFR, but a full community, centered only on Stepmania, from playing to stepping, would be cool to gather new and old people. A place where we could discuss everything about this game we play, and come up with "solutions" to keep Stepmania alive and make it more popular, bringing even more people. I don't care if we are going to have pad files, keyboard files, anime files, just a place for Stepmania, with subforums for each file "category".

I hope this post doesn't get ignored, even if it gets a "well, not happening" reply.

This guy is a genius


I agree, back in the days when ODI was active was the best period for me as a sm player

[SasHiiiii]

I'm also supporting Shikaris idea. It feels good to see, that I'm not the only one who had this idea in mind

[Shikari]

Originally Posted by Staiain

I agree, back in the days when ODI was active was the best period for me as a sm player

Sadly, I wasn't a ODI active, but I do know how much that site was active and a good place to hang out. I was thinking about this new forum today, and we have material for that: The old project of Stepmania classes, posted here on FFR, where prolific step authors were giving real lessons on how to use some stuff, like X-mod (JenovaSephiroth was the "teacher") and Color Theory (moches and GD), and your SM Wiki and World Records database. Sadly, the Stepmania classes project was forgotten during the FFR's big crash.

I don't know, maybe a fresh start for Stepmania community is what we're missing, and who knows how big our community can grow with a new place to focus and hang out.

[Eriol-kun]

Originally Posted by lnick

I'm coming back to this thread as soon as I get a chance to smoke again.

Get that Easy Bake Oven working already oh my god

Originally Posted by Shikari

I was thinking about a whole new Stepmania community, like ODI is/was back in the days. I know we have both KBO and FFR, but a full community, centered only on Stepmania, from playing to stepping, would be cool to gather new and old people. A place where we could discuss everything about this game we play, and come up with "solutions" to keep Stepmania alive and make it more popular, bringing even more people. I don't care if we are going to have pad files, keyboard files, anime files, just a place for Stepmania, with subforums for each file "category".

I think my enthusiasm for StepMania has dropped considerably since last year, maybe what I need in StepMania is a fresh new start and I'd join a community like this to give that theory a spin.

[juanito245]

stepmania revival

[Lain_Iwakura]

Originally Posted by Chariot

I have a question about this, which I hope anyone will answer, not just you, Lain: what good does criticism really do? It's to my understanding that criticism is basically one person sharing his opinion with another, right? If you took someone's criticism that your file was... say, too easy, too hard, not technical enough, or not fun enough, and you changed it accordingly, you would then be altering it so that a set of people who disliked it now liked it, but in the process, a set of people who liked it will now dislike it... right?

criticism is exactly that, opinion. if QED doesn't want to listen to criticism, like I said thats his choice. but when you act like a douchebag to anyone who gives criticism, this is where QED has a problem.

The thing about criticism in art is that it only really helps people achieve a standard set by whoever is critiquing it, and whoever shares that opinion. If somebody is happy with the way her file turned out, then that person doesn't really need to change anything if they don't see it fit to, because doing so only compromises her own style and expression. Sure, we can throw around the cliché that it helps a person "grow", but all it really does is help a person please a bigger audience. If you want to please the most amount of people, then you should take people's criticism, but if you want to have fun and express yourself, then I argue that you really don't need to listen to the opinion of anyone else, because it's just that: they're opinion. It's no greater than yours.

if QED wants to make simfiles his way, that's his choice. when he pushes his style and ideals of stepping onto others as the only 'right' way of doing things like he did at the stepmania panel he run and the way he conducts himself online, hes no better than an evangelist. when QED advertises his simfiles and brings even one person into believing his simfiles are good, it takes away from all other established simfile authors.

Imagine if Van Gogh, Rembrandt, or Picasso listened to all the people that told them their art could have done _____ differently. It would have only made their art "better" by a different set of people's standards; you may not have appreciated them as much. Or, if you're not into paintings so much: imagine any music artist changing their style based on what's popular. Oh, wait, music artists do that all the time, don't they - and isn't it disappointing when they do? Don't you feel that the artist had something unique that you really liked before? Then you are in that group (that is most likely the minority) that can appreciate their different sound. Similarly, what if all the stepfiles adhered to just one rule, and they were all stepped the same? Then, we might as well ask only one person to step them. Stepfiles are great because they come out differently depending on who is creating them.

It took a very long time for any of those artists to be considered geniuses of their time. Their art was considered trash for a very long time before popular opinion moved to their favor. This may happen for QED as well, but as it stands now, his files are bad, by vote of popular (majority) opinion. The music artist point is kind of irrelevant, producing music and putting arrows down to music already made are so wildly different it is kind of pointless to compare the two. If you were attempting to refer to how stepfile artists were to change their stepping style to what's popular, QED, while not changing his stepping style, has always maintained a style that is popular to some. again, this is all subjective. most of the time when a file is stepped and stepped well, it doesn't need to be stepped again. I believe the only reason people restep files that already were really good are merely being attention whores. There are a lot of current simfile authors today that do this, some of whom are in this thread. While not inherently a detrimental thing, most of the time the question 'Why was this restepped' is asked.

I mean sure, we have standards now, and those include all the basics like "get the BPM right, sync the arrows with the music and don't make everything a quad", and I'd hope that most people would at least adhere to those, but even those are really only standards made up by people about how an open-ended game "should be played". To be honest with you, I've played the Big Blue in this game over 100 times now, and I don't find it fun despite the fact that it's "technically sound". On that same note, I found Hellbeat oddly enjoyable, and if you asked me which of the two I'd rather play, I'd pick Hellbeat any day. By most people's standards (even the ones I listed there), Hellbeat is garbage, but I found it more fun than some "sound" levels.

Syncing the arrows with the music is something QED does not do, he puts arrows to sounds that are not there frequently. If you don't like how the simfiles in FFR are made today, don't play them and don't play FFR. The standards of FFR (and stepmania really) exist because the majority of the community abides by these standards. if someone doesn't want to abide by these standards we're not stopping them. but you would be asinine to think you wouldn't hear a lot of both negative and constructive criticism if you don't follow these standards set by these communities. hellbeat still exists because it was made in a time where standards were different. Some people want to return to this time but we're past that and we probably won't ever return to that age.

Yes, if you put down random arrows that have no relation to any sound played in the song whatsoever, you may consider getting some advice on the very basics, because there are basics. But at a certain point - especially for someone who has such a following for their stepfiles, like QED - I'm really just wondering what criticism improves, and more importantly, for whom.

QED puts random arrows that have no relation to any sound played in the song whatsoever. Does he need to consider getting some advice on the basics? He doesn't seem to want to listen since all criticism is ignored with a harsh attitude. Just because someone has a large following doesn't make them good.

[Chariot]

Awesome, thanks for that thorough response.

Originally Posted by Lain_Iwakura

when you act like a douchebag to anyone who gives criticism, this is where QED has a problem.

Okay, this I totally agree with (of course). I guess I took your initial point very literally in that he actually needed to put the criticism to use. But what's really important is that he's able to accept the criticism and move on, even if he's not going to use it. I totally agree with that.

Originally Posted by Lain_Iwakura

when QED advertises his simfiles and brings even one person into believing his simfiles are good, it takes away from all other established simfile authors.

I'm not quite sure what this one is all about. Established stepfile artists are just people who are known amongst some sort of majority in the community for making good stepfiles. They will still be known for making good files, no matter how many people put quads to silent WAV files and get praised for it, or put one green arrow every 30 seconds to a screamo song and get praised for it. If QED is praised for his stepfiles, it simply means someone likes them.

Originally Posted by Lain_Iwakura

I believe the only reason people restep files that already were really good are merely being attention whores.

You mean this is the reason people restep them, or this is the reason people release them? Either way, I also don't see the problem here. Stepmania is not like FFR, where there's a panel of judges, a record of scores and a set of achievements based on accomplishing different things. Stepmania is totally open-ended, and has no official "this is the level for this song" type of judgment found in games like Rock Band, or FFR, or any rhythm game released with some kind of structure. Anybody can step anything any number of times, and that's the beauty of it.

And anyway, an accepted stepfile for a song is probably a repeat of a stepfile that was perhaps better than it, but that particular stepfile just didn't get a lot of attention and went under the radar. Many of the files you'd defend as the "files that were already really good" for a particular song could in fact be files that are repeats themselves, so I'm not quite sure I understand the background behind this argument either. There are tens of thousands of songs on Stepmania.com; ignore the ones you don't have interest in.

Originally Posted by Lain_Iwakura

If you don't like how the simfiles in FFR are made today, don't play them and don't play FFR.

Oh, I quite enjoy some of the files released in FFR's recent time. Big Blue was an example of something I didn't like, but it wasn't meant to say that I dislike all files released in today's time. I apologize if the comment came off that way; the comment was made to create a stark contrast to how much I like Hellbeat, which is a really old (and honestly, pretty "bad") stepfile. But without a doubt, there are fun files still released today. I wouldn't be here if there weren't, because then I wouldn't be much more than a troll :)

Originally Posted by Lain_Iwakura

QED puts random arrows that have no relation to any sound played in the song whatsoever. Does he need to consider getting some advice on the basics? He doesn't seem to want to listen since all criticism is ignored with a harsh attitude. Just because someone has a large following doesn't make them good.

Well, I suppose this is the part where I'm obligated to say "define good". From what you've described, I wouldn't like his files very much, but if some people do, then good for them, and good for him. But going back to the original issue, it's when somebody like QED presents his style as perfect and correct and so violently repels any sort of criticism that the real problem arises. I agree with what you said in the beginning; he should be able to take criticism, whether he tends to apply it or not.

[ddrxero64]

Originally Posted by juanito245

stepmania revival

There is no way you're a member from 2006 and you have this one post. Your avatar is very generic and it looks like you googled Stepmania and put it now. I don't think that icon was made in 2006 anyway, but that's aside from the point.

I did this once myself. Change the name (or keep it) of an inactive member that obviously will never use their account and keep it for myself. Is this a staff member? Very sketchy, but only opinion.

[AsphyxZero]

Originally Posted by ddrxero64

There is no way you're a member from 2006 and you have this one post. Your avatar is very generic and it looks like you googled Stepmania and put it now. I don't think that icon was made in 2006 anyway, but that's aside from the point.

I did this once myself. Change the name (or keep it) of an inactive member that obviously will never use their account and keep it for myself. Is this a staff member? Very sketchy, but only opinion.

DJ_Ossa's name is juan, iirc. Ossa's been around a long time. It's plausible that this is DJ_Ossa lol.

[Mrjonesw]

i'm a member from 2004 and i made my first post today so not quite sure what that was all about lmfao

also, this thread is epic, i agree with everything gundam-dude said everyone go read gundam-dude's post it is extremely insightful

[DJMAYYYNE]

I'll hold you like a DJ_Ossa simfile (see if anyone remember this)

[ddrxero64]

Originally Posted by Neviutz

Have you probably thought about the possibility that it was Jousway who PM'd him before?

Ah, you are correct. The problem is Jousway purposely leaves out details (such as what he initially PM'd QED) to make points that are very biased. I do apologize for that, but I'm glad that question got answered. Which gives the notion that Jousway may have influenced an opinion upon QED before the thread was even read, which I believe he did.

The problem is, and I will stand by it, he was incapable of answering some questions, even the ones I didn't ask. I would have a been a lot more considerate if he would have addressed that he is one of many steppers, and that no style is correct. But he made a point that you don't need to be technical, and it only makes sense that criticism will come along. Just like any argument, you need to address the counter arguments that may come at you.

I don't appreciate the representation he made of SM, as if he was the only one that knew what to do. I asked him specifically what other communities may help me, and he said something along the lines of "there are some out there, not really sure." You, QED, and I are well aware of what we say and what intentions we have in phrasing certain answers. For him to continuously present his email and youtube was a bit narcissistic. Even simple things like the program should have been credited. He didn't create the program, so what's the fault in saying "go to stepmania.com if you want to know more about the program" or something similar? I have a lot of issues in the way he conducted, all excluding the approach and organization (which I could go on for hours about). But plagiarism is never a good thing, whether intentional or unintentional. It's something you learn when you create your first history report in middle school (not meant to belittle yours or QED's intelligence, just a general statement). It's not accepted in music, literature, art, or any other expressive outlet of creativity. It's based on the ethics that taking credit for someone else's work is immoral. Whether or not it's right, we could debate for years. But the fact is if he wouldn't like someone taking credit for his work, then the same should apply. I don't mean simfiles, I mean programs, progress over the years in simfile creation, leaving out important information about communities, disregarding questions about pads because they don't interest you, etc.

This is where I have issues, and I'm going to stand by them.

Originally Posted by AsphyxZero

DJ_Ossa's name is juan, iirc. Ossa's been around a long time. It's plausible that this is DJ_Ossa lol.

DJ Ossa himself? Nice! He just posted on SMO today too, he really is back on the scene haha. I do apologize for the skepticism, but it wasn't an attack, just observations.

Nice to see you on FFR too Juan. :P

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by AsphyxZero

DJ_Ossa's name is juan, iirc. Ossa's been around a long time. It's plausible that this is DJ_Ossa lol.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/profile/Dj_Ossa/

[TC_Cyrenics]

Originally Posted by DJMAYYYNE

I'll hold you like a DJ_Ossa simfile (see if anyone remember this)

Nothing you say can ever be taken seriously with an avatar of a Kermit puppet goatse'ing.

But no, seriously, it's subjectivity at its finest points. All files have their merit to someone, whether it's the creator or someone else around them.

Opinion: many simfiles that get rejected from packs, get done so because they appear unpolished and/or incomplete due to technical/stylistic reasons.

[Mrjonesw]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/profile/Dj_Ossa/

holy shit there's no way the other profile could possibly be dj ossa now especially since he couldn't possibly have an alt. well played.

[DJMAYYYNE]

I love my laptop and I have sex with it everyday. Also, I love my girfriend, who's really hot btw roflowned.

[DossarLX ODI]

Why would he do that

In fact, I could say what you're saying for everything else. "There's no way DossarLX ODI on omgdidinsane.com could be Dossar now especially since he couldn't possibly have an alt!" - And that was an imposter, by the way

[Lain_Iwakura]

-when I say QED is taking away from established simfile authors, I mean taking away what they should think a good stepfile is. by being exposed to QED's simfiles first, combined with his manipulations of how his simfiles are really good, it creates a person that sees established, legitimately good simfile author files and thinks they are somehow bad in comparison. they should be playing other simfiles, really, nearly any other simfile besides things that QED makes because it sets them off on the wrong foot from step one.

-people that restep and release files for the attention. releasing files is fine, restepping files that have already been stepped to the satisfaction of the community and releasing them is being an attention whore in my opinion. example 1) over the ocean by Malice. it's been stepped here on FFR, by Puppet, and by dondon151. Malice's version was the first, and probably the best one (opinion). Yet, it was stepped on three different occasions with little true success. example 2) shind bad by pfx. besides the countless nobodies that have restepped this on bemanistyle and the ffr simfile database, Dew was the only other person to have restepped this with any sort of true replay value, and only by making it nine billion times harder and making it strictly a scoring file to be played for difficulty only with little emphasis (if any) on fun.
Typically, most files that are stepped don't get resteps. There are exceptions where the resteps are a welcome change, case in point Cross Time (originally stepped by Laggy) was restepped again later by chodasaibaka in the Dark Chancellors Pack and was looked on with generally favorable reviews, citing the difficulty change and new stepping style was refreshing.
Stepmania most definitely has a 'this is the level for this song', its called the foot rating/groove radar/number rating. There are quite a few established systems I still know of, including the DDR rating system both before 10 footers were released, after true 10 footers were released (MAX300 and the like), and the current DDR rating system which goes into the 20s I believe? There also is the ITG rating system which typically goes up to 15-16? There is also the legacy Stepmania difficulty rating system which more or less was decided roughly by the community (anything 10+ was typically for keyboard with some exceptions, 9 and below was for pad), and the newer Dark Chancellors difficulty rating system which went up to 10 I believe and was only for keyboard files. Also Stepmania came before FFR, its hard to say it didn't have structure before the game that it was based off of.

-defining good is defined by the community at large. if I was to take a poll of the entire active stepmania community, most would agree that in the very least, QED's files are either bad, misled, need improvement, are not keyboard files, etc. You really should go download his simfiles and test them out for yourself. Because you've been exposed to good files already, it should be okay to expose you to QED files. Regardless, the opinion you form of them is your own and even if you like them, it (while angering me) will not make me care too much in the long run, as the majority are steadfast in opposing the kind of ideals QED stands for when he speaks and makes simfiles.