TWG CLIX: Form your special exclusive groups now! - Game Thread

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by roundbox

9th-11th

Oh, that's cool. Sounds like you're a pretty fun teacher! Good on ya (:

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by Gradiant

I completely diagree with the quote shado used as reasoning for his unvote as that's what i said above was false information (the convo being neutral stanced with you just typing out thoughts and not being overly defensive).

That's the point I wanted to respond to before I slept. That's the major deviation in our views on this matter. I will always contend that I didn't feel threatened in the least when I made that "neutral stance" post while you believe that I was pressured into doing so. I hope both his and my explanations cleared up any lingering confusion you might have about this interaction.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

That's the point I wanted to respond to before I slept. That's the major deviation in our views on this matter. I will always contend that I didn't feel threatened in the least when I made that "neutral stance" post while you believe that I was pressured into doing so. I hope both his and my explanations cleared up any lingering confusion you might have about this interaction.

Since you're awake and present, what do you think of inDheart (and myself, if you wish) given the present situation? Please do answer this before going to bed.

[inDheart]

so. shado.

up to the point where you join the conversation i'd call gradiant/freez's discussion relatively mild. freez started in perhaps a little hot by telling him not to vote frivolously, but it's in character for gradiant to pick it up and be wary. i see interplay like this as even something to be expected given the impetus for it: a big flashing ATTN GRADIANT that may have come on stronger than expected. the quote that you even bothered to put in your signature accounts for this as well - the game got serious, players got serious, perhaps sooner than expected. okay, so they're keeping an eye on each other as a result. cool.

meanwhile, there are actually other things happening in the game. i know, incredible. for one, haku's around, and i've talked before about how freez seems not to know what to make of him. that's a bit odd given he's supposedly read a couple recent games. regardless, though, i'd call his posts here measured if he's taking a level view of the game. he indicated an intent to leave meta and extra-game factors out; i personally think those are rather telling for haku and something worth keeping in mind, but sure. meanwhile, these two posts are the last two in the exchange with gradiant before you enter.

this post you make is meant to be a ping on freez. but i have no idea what it's pinging. conversation-wise, freez doesn't seem to have anything to respond to - #170 and #171 were the end of that conversational path there, and by then lacked a gradiant follow-up. you've established, at least, that you didn't like where freez's side of the conversation was going.

this post is where the elaboration hits. no shit your ping didn't work, because who knows what it was for (i know when i get pinged, i'd like some idea of the reason behind it in that same post beyond "i don't like you"). so since you're so fond of false premises, i think the start of the progression you describe is ill-formed. first, you think of gradiant's vote as a "pressure vote". i would not call a one-vote wagon, early on the first day, with little of an articulated reason a "pressure vote". you call freez's action a "push", which i suppose is fair; he calls it a poke himself, but as we can see it didn't quite have the intended effect. we can quibble over the semantics of the middle part in there, as i think "all-out defense" is hyperbole, but oh well. but the end part - "hopping on the haku wagon", you say? it's hardly a wagon, with one vote, and freez wasn't adding to it. then you vote him. cool.

here's a freez response which i see as his defense. it has the effect of saying the narrative you're pushing is inaccurate. which you unvoted him for - after arguing over semantics some more. meanwhile, freez has accused you of literally making stuff up. so congratulations, you've misinformed to push on the obvious losing end of the game's biggest interaction thus far.

if you're so in the right here, why don't i see anyone sharing your narrative? it seems gradiant moved past it, looking at the attitudes that resulted from your conversation on the following day. mellon said your post was bad on a first pass and at best out of place.

why don't you come away from this discussion looking like a fool? because gradiant is awake and happens to like what you seemed to be doing (:S), and freez looked to be the loser of the initial argument anyway.

(in between here is where i wake up and talk about freez after the events of that night)

okay. earlier today backpack comes in and pokes at precarious. you second it, with a vote. nothing to add, either, besides corroborating meta observation. here's where you say you're "mindmelding" with backpack, and that's why i'm asking you about mindmelding. i think you're just running with what he had to say, because prior to this there is little signaling a similar sentiment from you, even though you have the post count and presence to have covered it. i said "hours later" because you could've tackled it way earlier, it just didn't happen to be salient to you until backpack said it could be.

so there you go, that's the main two things to bring up

zzz

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by inDheart

so. shado.

up to the point where you join the conversation i'd call gradiant/freez's discussion relatively mild. freez started in perhaps a little hot by telling him not to vote frivolously, but it's in character for gradiant to pick it up and be wary. i see interplay like this as even something to be expected given the impetus for it: a big flashing ATTN GRADIANT that may have come on stronger than expected. the quote that you even bothered to put in your signature accounts for this as well - the game got serious, players got serious, perhaps sooner than expected. okay, so they're keeping an eye on each other as a result. cool.

meanwhile, there are actually other things happening in the game. i know, incredible. for one, haku's around, and i've talked before about how freez seems not to know what to make of him. that's a bit odd given he's supposedly read a couple recent games. regardless, though, i'd call his posts here measured if he's taking a level view of the game. he indicated an intent to leave meta and extra-game factors out; i personally think those are rather telling for haku and something worth keeping in mind, but sure. meanwhile, these two posts are the last two in the exchange with gradiant before you enter.

this post you make is meant to be a ping on freez. but i have no idea what it's pinging. conversation-wise, freez doesn't seem to have anything to respond to - #170 and #171 were the end of that conversational path there, and by then lacked a gradiant follow-up. you've established, at least, that you didn't like where freez's side of the conversation was going.

this post is where the elaboration hits. no shit your ping didn't work, because who knows what it was for (i know when i get pinged, i'd like some idea of the reason behind it in that same post beyond "i don't like you"). so since you're so fond of false premises, i think the start of the progression you describe is ill-formed. first, you think of gradiant's vote as a "pressure vote". i would not call a one-vote wagon, early on the first day, with little of an articulated reason a "pressure vote". you call freez's action a "push", which i suppose is fair; he calls it a poke himself, but as we can see it didn't quite have the intended effect. we can quibble over the semantics of the middle part in there, as i think "all-out defense" is hyperbole, but oh well. but the end part - "hopping on the haku wagon", you say? it's hardly a wagon, with one vote, and freez wasn't adding to it. then you vote him. cool.

here's a freez response which i see as his defense. it has the effect of saying the narrative you're pushing is inaccurate. which you unvoted him for - after arguing over semantics some more. meanwhile, freez has accused you of literally making stuff up. so congratulations, you've misinformed to push on the obvious losing end of the game's biggest interaction thus far.

if you're so in the right here, why don't i see anyone sharing your narrative? it seems gradiant moved past it, looking at the attitudes that resulted from your conversation on the following day. mellon said your post was bad on a first pass and at best out of place.

why don't you come away from this discussion looking like a fool? because gradiant is awake and happens to like what you seemed to be doing (:S), and freez looked to be the loser of the initial argument anyway.

(in between here is where i wake up and talk about freez after the events of that night)

okay. earlier today backpack comes in and pokes at precarious. you second it, with a vote. nothing to add, either, besides corroborating meta observation. here's where you say you're "mindmelding" with backpack, and that's why i'm asking you about mindmelding. i think you're just running with what he had to say, because prior to this there is little signaling a similar sentiment from you, even though you have the post count and presence to have covered it. i said "hours later" because you could've tackled it way earlier, it just didn't happen to be salient to you until backpack said it could be.

so there you go, that's the main two things to bring up

zzz

Wait, was the point of this massive post, 90 minute ISO, and energy expended, all simply to tell me, "you look like a fool"? Because I see no mention of how any of this makes me look scummy..

Wow, talk about a wasted effort.

[ShadoWolfe]

K, got back on my computer to address you point by point, because I feel like you should get something in return for your effort.

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I wasn't even slightly sure from his posts, I just thought it was a scumtell that he wasn't posting nearly as independently as he normally does. It's his reaction right now that's affirming it for me. Like, who the fuck ISOs someone's posts in an effort to dig up dirt as a response to being read scum? That's not something town does. His whole reaction just threw me the fuck off, but even then I paused and reconsidered before voting.

Besides, if I was wolf and wanted to be super hyper aggressive, the time for that would've been when I quoted that post progression of FreezinIce.

i iso'd you because haku asked

you had a rather interesting reaction to an uninformed first impression based on pretty much memory, don't you think?

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Wait, was the point of this massive post, 90 minute ISO, and energy expended, all simply to tell me, "you look like a fool"? Because I see no mention of how any of this makes me look scummy..

Wow, talk about a wasted effort.

because i wasn't searching for that as a foregone conclusion?

the two main topics of that post are what i've wondered about most, so i gave you some detail to my wondering

jesus i'm an hour over, okay actually gone now

[Charu]

Suitable music

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Since you're awake and present, what do you think of inDheart (and myself, if you wish) given the present situation? Please do answer this before going to bed.

I like his response to your pressure so far, he's not cracking under it and hes responding with things that i find myself agreeing with.

That last big post he made was especially nice and summed up a lot of the things i found myself thinking when responding to your accusations. The time between your first and second ping was really short (15mins) and factoring in the time it takes to fabricate a post its even shorter. Even though in your 2nd ping you say you expected a response, I believe you had this planned out and you were planning to vote me no matter what i managed to get out. This along with your exaggerated claims were the things going through my mind and dheart picking up on them as well makes me feel like we might be on the same page in some ways?

I'm not 100% sold on the interplay between you and dabackpack like he is though, i know if i put myself in your shoes i could see it going either way.

overall im seeing some good stuff coming from him so I'd give him a town lean.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Wait, was the point of this massive post, 90 minute ISO, and energy expended, all simply to tell me, "you look like a fool"? Because I see no mention of how any of this makes me look scummy..

Wow, talk about a wasted effort.

To be fair, you havnt exactly made an airtight case for him being scum with your vote either. You just perforated him with word bullets.

I know that votes are versatile tools that can be used for all sorts of things so this usually wouldnt matter at all in my mind, but i felt the need to point out the double standard.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

K, got back on my computer to address you point by point, because I feel like you should get something in return for your effort.

most sinister post in this entire game

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by inDheart

this post you make is meant to be a ping on freez. but i have no idea what it's pinging. conversation-wise, freez doesn't seem to have anything to respond to - #170 and #171 were the end of that conversational path there, and by then lacked a gradiant follow-up. you've established, at least, that you didn't like where freez's side of the conversation was going.

I wasn't pinging him like "OH hey, you're not responding to me so this is a reminder", I was pinging him to get his attention and maybe a "Yes, Wolfe?" before posting my thing. I ping so that the person doesn't leave while I format the post. I would think you'd know this though, after spending 90 minutes reading my posts. Here's what I told mellon on the topic: "Jumping in strong is the best way to gauge reactions and get reads, imo. I do it all the time, as you'll see throughout this game and any future game you play with me. If I call out your name, you can be sure my next post will involve some dirt I've got on you that I'd like you to play with and clarify for me."

Originally Posted by inDheart

this post is where the elaboration hits. no shit your ping didn't work, because who knows what it was for (i know when i get pinged, i'd like some idea of the reason behind it in that same post beyond "i don't like you"). so since you're so fond of false premises, i think the start of the progression you describe is ill-formed. first, you think of gradiant's vote as a "pressure vote". i would not call a one-vote wagon, early on the first day, with little of an articulated reason a "pressure vote". you call freez's action a "push", which i suppose is fair; he calls it a poke himself, but as we can see it didn't quite have the intended effect. we can quibble over the semantics of the middle part in there, as i think "all-out defense" is hyperbole, but oh well. but the end part - "hopping on the haku wagon", you say? it's hardly a wagon, with one vote, and freez wasn't adding to it. then you vote him. cool.

Stated my reasoning for the push and vote on Freez three times already. I'd tell to go read my posts, but you're supposed to have already done more than your share of that.

Originally Posted by inDheart

here's a freez response which i see as his defense. it has the effect of saying the narrative you're pushing is inaccurate. which you unvoted him for - after arguing over semantics some more. meanwhile, freez has accused you of literally making stuff up. so congratulations, you've misinformed to push on the obvious losing end of the game's biggest interaction thus far.

I don't know what your last sentence means, but I'll address the rest of this. As I've said three times, I unvoted him because of his tone and because he seemed genuine. I even stated this in my very next post, with the note that I still don't believe he didn't find Gradiant suspicious, but that his reaction seemed genuine, and that he didn't seem wolfy enough to keep sustaining a vote on him. I've also shared my reasoning with mellon, and again with Gradi and Freez pretty recently. At this point, you're beating a dead horse.

Originally Posted by inDheart

if you're so in the right here, why don't i see anyone sharing your narrative? it seems gradiant moved past it, looking at the attitudes that resulted from your conversation on the following day. mellon said your post was bad on a first pass and at best out of place.

Lol what narrative are you talking about? If it's that Freezin seemed wolfy there, clearly Gradiant hasn't moved past it, and neither has freez. If it's my reasoning for my push that you're referring to, then, even Freez said my narrative was more believable than the one you're somehow continuing to choke on. mellon said my post was bad, then realized she had misread it entirely and retracted that. Her only complaint was that my initial callout came out of nowhere, which I've addressed in the quote above, under your first quote block. Again, this is all stuff that's been addressed, so I'm actually disappointed in you for wasting your time and mine with this, especially since you should've read all the posts addressing it by now.

Originally Posted by inDheart

why don't you come away from this discussion looking like a fool? because gradiant is awake and happens to like what you seemed to be doing (:S), and freez looked to be the loser of the initial argument anyway.

What are you even getting at, here? You seem to be confused. I thought Freez "slaughtered" me? Is this massive post just to spout this weak ad hominem? I didn't come off looking like a fool because I wasn't one. I got what I wanted from Freez, and then moved on to better resources. I've been gathering info, what have you been doing? I don't get how I'm supposed to be looking like a fool here, but hey, your posts kind of indicate that you're living in own world to begin with.

Originally Posted by inDheart

(in between here is where i wake up and talk about freez after the events of that night)
okay. earlier today backpack comes in and pokes at precarious. you second it, with a vote. nothing to add, either, besides corroborating meta observation. here's where you say you're "mindmelding" with backpack, and that's why i'm asking you about mindmelding. i think you're just running with what he had to say, because prior to this there is little signaling a similar sentiment from you, even though you have the post count and presence to have covered it. i said "hours later" because you could've tackled it way earlier, it just didn't happen to be salient to you until backpack said it could be.

I was thinking we were mindmelding from DBPs first real post, which was about Freez and Gradi being TvT. At that point, I was reading Freezin as pretty towny, especially after re-reading our interaction. You know, hence the unvote? But yeah, I liked DBPs post about TvT, then he eventually follows up with something I had noted about Precarious, which was that his posts had been exclusively covering the Charu topic. I hadn't brought it up because I figured Precarious would've started posting about other things at some point, but he didn't by the time DBP brought it up, so I seconded the vote because I felt that Precarious needed more pressure than just one vote, and because I wanted Precarious to actually start posting. Guess what? It worked, and his followup posts caused me to lean him townish, as I've already covered in my reads. My vote on you is actually the first vote I've made in this game that was seriously because I think I've found a wolf, and not just for pressure. I didn't vote right after posting my reads because I figured you might come back and change my mind, but your response has been extraordinarily scummy, for reasons I've already covered while you were spending 90 minutes going through all of my posts with the intention of finding any mud you could sling my way. Definitely keeping this vote for now.

Originally Posted by inDheart

zzz

This is the most relevant thing you've said in game so far, and it didn't even require much of your time or energy (I hope). Keep it up!

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by inDheart

i iso'd you because haku asked

you had a rather interesting reaction to an uninformed first impression based on pretty much memory, don't you think?

Lol sure, an interesting reaction. This is when you had acknowledged reading my post of you, and then cited almost word for word my reasoning for reading you wolfish in your read of me, when it wasn't even applicable to me at all (pointed this out before your ISO, and it still stands). I'd hardly call that an "uninformed first impression based on pretty much memory".

Originally Posted by inDheart

because i wasn't searching for that as a foregone conclusion?

the two main topics of that post are what i've wondered about most, so i gave you some detail to my wondering

jesus i'm an hour over, okay actually gone now

Didn't see this before responding, but I had actually addressed one of those in my interaction with mellon, which you should've seen in your ISO because you brought up mellon specifically. Answered the other for you, though.

Funny that you bring up not searching for it as a foregone conclusion, after I bring up how scummy it is to ISO looking for dirt to prove your conclusion, after you made it seem like that was exactly what you were doing. Idk, I could just be tunnelling so I'mma give you the benefit of the doubt here.

[danceflashrevo]

wolfe you seem to be a lot more aggressive in this game than the game/rerolls that I played with you most recently. Any reasons I would have that perception?

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Here's what I told mellon on the topic: "Jumping in strong is the best way to gauge reactions and get reads, imo. I do it all the time, as you'll see throughout this game and any future game you play with me. If I call out your name, you can be sure my next post will involve some dirt I've got on you that I'd like you to play with and clarify for me."

so yeah, here's you addressing mellon. you're passing this off as justifying your playstyle. that doesn't address this specific instance, particularly why mellon thinks your post feels "forced", which is still a bad quality to have. you picked an argument loser to push in freez and i don't think that reflects well on you here no matter how much you've given "reasoning".

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I don't know what your last sentence means, but I'll address the rest of this. As I've said three times, I unvoted him because of his tone and because he seemed genuine. I even stated this in my very next post, with the note that I still don't believe he didn't find Gradiant suspicious, but that his reaction seemed genuine, and that he didn't seem wolfy enough to keep sustaining a vote on him. I've also shared my reasoning with mellon, and again with Gradi and Freez pretty recently. At this point, you're beating a dead horse.

so supposedly since i'm so behind on this, let's check in with the current state of affairs, eh? most recently you responded to this freez post with this:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Wow, this is actually funny to me, Freezin. No, Gradiant, that's not why I backed off at all. Like I said earlier, I was pushing on him for pressure to test his reaction because I saw a very bad progression of "logic" in his posts, in the initial interaction with you. I highlighted that progression (attacking you for attacking Haku, backing off and going on the defensive when you push him back about it, then joining in on being critical/suspicious of Haku, when he was just attacking you for doing the same thing) to check out his response, because I wasn't too suspicious of him going in. I even voted him as a further push to try to get a clear, unfiltered response to being pushed, and the the tone of his responses made me think he was genuinely a town who didn't intend to come off the way he came off. He kept insisting he wasn't suspicious of you at all, and hence it wasn't "backing off", which I still refuse to believe and made a note of in thread and out. I then unvoted because I had gotten what I came for (his reaction, which seemed towny). I didn't want to push further than that on someone who, at that time, seemed towny to me, because he had already responded to the basis for my vote, and anything further in that vein would lead to groundless mudslinging with no actual supporting evidence that hadn't already been covered.

This is my third time explaining the same event, FreezinIce. I somehow doubt you didn't bother reading either of the other two posts and I doubt further that you, even for a minute, sincerely believed that I had backed off because I wanted to "cut my losses". It's crazy, but the more you try to reach for defenses, the scummier you seem.

plus, if you've supposedly explained the same thing three times, i need only read one explanation because they're all the same, correct? okay, therefore i have the same misgivings.

you say you see a "bad progression of "logic"", except what i've wanted to demonstrate to you by talking out that whole exchange is that your "progression" is on a poor foundation. so i'm siding with freez in that the whole conversation was rather neutral, and you continue to defend your interpretation. perhaps we need to agree to disagree if you're really going to stick to it. but something i see that i can't resolve with that is your minimization of this as a "reaction test". your unvote is supposedly because you saw something you liked in freez's reaction (which is easy enough to go back and claim when all you say at the time is "Fair enough. Unvote."), and you did so without responding to the substance of his post at the time. unless you're completely unmoved by being accused of lying, i don't know why you didn't address that at the time. your breadcrumbs are showing my dude

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

This is the most relevant thing you've said in game so far, and it didn't even require much of your time or energy (I hope). Keep it up!

vv

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Is this massive post just to spout this weak ad hominem?

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Lol sure, an interesting reaction. This is when you had acknowledged reading my post of you, and then cited almost word for word my reasoning for reading you wolfish in your read of me, when it wasn't even applicable to me at all (pointed this out before your ISO, and it still stands). I'd hardly call that an "uninformed first impression based on pretty much memory".

the thing that rubs me the wrong way about it is you knew i was going to do a full iso but posted that anyway

[mellonxcollie]

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

Outside of game, could anyone help give tips to be less intimidated by the sheer amount of content in the game? I feel a little overwhelmed lol

Break it up into small-ish chunks but don't get too far behind. The more you have to catch up with the harder it is. Even if you don't have time to make a post or even put thought into the game, read the thread anyway just to keep on top of it.

Also it gets easier as the game goes on (if you make it). Less players to keep track of and more information at that point. The beginning is always kind of a clusterfuck no matter what

[DaBackpack]

there's a lot of petty squabbling in this thread rn

actually I don't know if it's petty because I haven't actually read all of it but I'm gonna say it's petty

[DaBackpack]

I really don't want to read the shadow/indheart stuff