Old 12-19-2012, 11:51 AM   #1
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Default OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

OMGWTFT0K3N is a token song that you get by getting 2 perfects, 4 goods, 6 averages, 8 misses and 10 boos with a 12 combo on Excite Bike. It's not in fact that hard to get but takes time. If you don't have it, this post may contain traces of spoilers, so leave now or continue reading at your peril.

As it is a token song, there's no point comparing stats of AAA/FC/times played, and for some reason the NPS diagram is wrong so there's no point comparing that too. Possibly the song was changed at some point?

The song sounds like an Auto-Tuned version of Charlie Sheen's famous interview. It has a sort of special effect where if you press a directional key the whole chart moves in the direction that you pressed the key in. This can later lead to you not seeing the stationary arrows at all making it harder to read the notes. This does not show up in replays.

The chart has a tendency to go up off the screen. You can avert this by (if you use upscroll) pressing the down key at the start a few times then using Velocity's restart (not quit) button, then repeating, until the arrows are in the middle of the screen. I think reducing your speedmod works too (Edit: no it doesn't). You could also use downscroll or mirror to make the arrows go down, if this "glitch" gets fixed - less effective since the hard bit is at the end where you want to see the whole chart but still makes it much easier nonetheless.

As for the patterns: The whole chart is just simple readable red/blue arrows. (except for 6 of them) It has a lot of hands/quads thrown in random places but it's easily readable for a beginner player like me as long as you keep the whole chart inside the screen by the end. The special effects throw you off, but since it's all red/blue arrows you can easily tell by the beat when you're supposed to hit them even with only a vague idea of where they are on the screen. You can get the hang of it after a few tries.

Now for scores. I got mad two days ago when my best was like 38-5-0-0 and then this didn't record.


I played it again that day and only got 32-0-0-0. Not wanting to have to use the unrecorded scores form I played it again today and after two restarts my 3rd, 4th, and 5th plays were this


Edit: 1 day later I got this. No idea how it happened. I can't get scores like this even on easiest beginner levels. Probably a huge fluke.


This is far better than I can ever expect to get on low-30s or even high-20s. If I kept going I might just about get AAA but as you can tell from my stats I never feel like going for them. Without special effects this song belongs in the mid-20s but even if you put the special effects in it only compares to things like Entry of the Gladiators and is still certainly easier than stuff like Charge!!!, Bricks, or Maple Leaf Rag. I'm suggesting 29 or 30 for this song.

By the way if this was rated a 66, not a 65, I would not have made this thread until completely undeservedly unlocking Otaku Speedvibe [Oni] from it.

edit: use offset +2 for this

edit: here's the replay of the AAA on velocity
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

Gonna open this up for discussion. Not gonna say much until I get some more opinions from other people, but I will preface the thread with a few comments:

This is a gimmick chart. The difficulty rating takes into account the scrolling receptor gimmick and the fact that the arrows should either be off screen or much lower than their initial position by the end of the song, depending on whether or not you're playing on mirror.

Removing the gimmick, the chart is obviously much easier than a 65 (although 29 I'd say is far too low a difficulty for a chart with this many hands and quads). Yes, there are ways to manipulate the initial position of the receptors. The file wasn't intended to be played with the receptors starting in the middle of the screen and the rating reflects that.

One other thing hasn't been mentioned, and that's the fact that splitting any one of those jumps, hands, or quads that contain both up and down arrows completely destroys your PA on this particular file. I remember hitting the [12] section of a quad one frame earlier than the [34] portion. The receptors would move downwards, forcing the [34] to now be hit as late goods, whereas normally the jumps on both hands should have been PA'd in the quad. You may not have a huge problem with this, but I know a ton of others do. All other charts in the game are very lenient with splitting given FFR's three frame window. This one plays very differently.

During the difficulty overhaul, stavie and I agreed to place this chart as high as possible without turning it into an oni get, as many other members agreed that the gimmick made this chart more difficult to AAA than some FMOs.

I'm not incredibly opposed to lowering the difficulty or anything, but would like to see what everyone else has to say about this file.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

Leave it.

Gimmick files will always have "worse" players who get good scores because they figure out how to manipulate the gimmick. Likewise, there are some really good players who may have a lot of trouble with it.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

OWA just explained all the PA difficulties I ever had with this file hot damn.

And I'd say keep it at the highest possible difficulty without giving Oni. Quite frankly, this chart is stupid, and shouldn't be in-game in the first place. I enjoyed Gigadelic a hell of a lot more (and was still opposed to that being in-game). Regardless, I can see where your reasoning comes from, and your score improvements are actually hilarious.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

OMGWTFTOK3N is a gimmick chart like what Rob said, but even without the gimmicks, I wouldn't call it a 29 (obviously much lower than 65 though).

It's really difficult to rate charts like this since there's really no other chart to compare it with. The file may look simple, but scoring on it is a bitch if you can't familiarize with the gimmick. Sure, you can manipulate the gimmick beforehand and do better, but even then it'll still be difficult to score on it nonetheless.

Splitting would also be a bigger issue since the receptors would move accordingly to the keys you're hitting, so you'd occasionally have one or two perfect frames instead of three, like what Rob said above. It'll make the scoring difficulty for this song a lot higher compared to other files, since no other file has that mechanic.

There are some D2-D3 players with AAAs on that song, but like I said, the file isn't really hard in terms of steps. Once you get used to the gimmick, it would be pretty easy to score on/AAA.

Most people I know who AAAed FMOs can't come close to AAA-ing this, but at the same time I know some people who can't come close to AAAing FMOs and can AAA this with ease.

I'd say 65 would be the suited difficulty though, since it doesn't give Oni so that D2-D3 players wouldn't be able to get it through Oni (obviously the file is a gimmick file, I don't think gimmick files should give a token that's long-sought for), but it really doesn't make sense to put it any lower if most players who can AAA FMOs can't score well on files like OMGWTFTOK3N.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

In my opinion this shouldn't even have a difficulty, it should just be ?? or something similar. Some can score on it like they would on 10's, while others score on it like they would on 90's. It just doesn't fit into one range because of the gimmick.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

I wish we could have ?? difficulties, lol.

There are some things in FFR that have a difficulty that is almost perpendicular to the normal difficulty system - as long as you have enough skill, no matter how good you are, it will take a similar amount of practice to get used to the different style of playing. This song is one of them. Some other examples are SSSG/Legend of Zelda (if aiming for the AAA), party4u v2, and some skill token requirements. Different players could easily give honest opinions that are 20 or 30 difficulties apart on the 1-99 scale.

So yeah, it's pretty much impossible to make a good decision. Just to compromise, I guess somewhere in the 50s would fit better just because 65s are pretty damn tough. Hell, p4uv2 is a 63, so this should definitely be below that. But it's important to keep in mind that AAAing this token is always a serious achievement. Would people say stuff like "I have all the 1-61s AAA'd except OMGWTFT0K3N"? Is that a problem?
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

P4U v2 has that 32nd split roll, so the 63 is justified.

I'm with QQ on this--you can make a case for whatever difficulty you want because of the gimmick combined with the video. (At least I think there's a video?) Splits are an issue because of the gimmick, and our one gold standard has always been the difficulty of scoring on the file itself. The gimmick directly impacts scoring whereas videos only interfere with reading, so I'm fine with something in the 50s.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

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P4U v2 has that 32nd split roll, so the 63 is justified.
My point wasn't that p4uv2 shouldn't be a 63, but instead that this file should definitely be lower than 63.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

I think bmah told me any text can be added for the rating of a file. ?? is a definite possibility for files like these that have a very wide spread in opinionated ratings given that the difficulty of these files aren't derived solely from playing the stepcharts. I jokingly suggested using that rating for another file that's coming out soon.

I don't know what the game managers' stances are on having non-numeric difficulty ratings, but it can be done.

Or we could just make the rating 'gay' lol.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

If we do introduce ?? ratings, I think they ought to be treated as if they were above 99 for the purposes of tokens (AAAing them can't unlock anything) and ingame difficulty sorting (they display together, after vrofl). So maybe we could allow difficulties of 100 and just display them as ?? instead on both the engine and site.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

Here's the problem

if you give it an unidentified rating, people will be confused as to why it has one.

If you ask me it's the same idea as party 4u v2 in terms of it has a reading gimmick. If anything it should be on par with P4uV2 at any given time because they're both stupidly difficult. I can't imagine one of them being harder than the other

white flashes + blue on blue + patterns
Background video + moving judgement bar - easier chart in terms of difficulty

Kinda seems to be about the same to me. I'd say move it to p4uv2's difficulty.

Though personally if there's an option that exempts p4uv2 from level ranks such as giving it a ?? rating please do that

Scum charts like that rotting in the ranks is retarded either way you look at it.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

Btw if we're going to keep a numeric rating for this file, my vote is still for 65 (or highest possible rating without unlocking oni) due to the splitting issue I mentioned in my first post. This file essentially uses an entirely separate judgment system.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:33 AM   #14
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

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Or we could just make the rating 'gay' lol.
this
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:35 AM   #15
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

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Originally Posted by One Winged Angel View Post
Btw if we're going to keep a numeric rating for this file, my vote is still for 65 (or highest possible rating without unlocking oni)
If you're doing that, I wouldn't be against pushing p4uv2 into the Oni range. If someone manages to AAA that song they definitely deserve the token :p
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:26 PM   #16
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

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Originally Posted by One Winged Angel View Post
One other thing hasn't been mentioned, and that's the fact that splitting any one of those jumps, hands, or quads that contain both up and down arrows completely destroys your PA on this particular file. I remember hitting the [12] section of a quad one frame earlier than the [34] portion. The receptors would move downwards, forcing the [34] to now be hit as late goods, whereas normally the jumps on both hands should have been PA'd in the quad. You may not have a huge problem with this, but I know a ton of others do. All other charts in the game are very lenient with splitting given FFR's three frame window. This one plays very differently.
I sent off a bunch of replays to the replay to frame comparison thread for analysis. If One Winged Angel is right, then what's supposed to happen is that the amount of times I hit the down arrow 1 frame before I hit the up (or in fact any other) arrow should be less, and the amount of times I hit the down arrow 2 frames before I hit any other arrow should be more. That's because he's saying I lose a frame after I hit the down arrow and the chart moves up a bit.

Results: This does not happen.

In my 5 replays I counted the frame differences between down/up and also down/left, along with another random replay I got earlier on another song. This is what I got

Down arrow vs. up arrow: In 5 plays of omgwtft0k3n there were
0 times where I hit down 2 frames before up
21 times where I hit down 1 frame before up

229 times where I hit them on the same frame
4 times where I hit up 1 frame before down
0 times where I hit up 2 frames before down
1 time where I completely missed the down arrow

on a play of Shadows the same figures were 1-1-22-3-0.

Left arrow vs. down arrow: In 5 plays of omgwtft0k3n there were
0 times where I hit left 2 frames before down
6 times where I hit left 1 frame before down
192 times where I hit them on the same frame
1 time where I hit down 1 frame before left
0 times where I hit down 2 frames before left
1 time where I completely missed the down arrow

on a play of Shadows the same figures were 0-5-69-0-0.

Ok, so I'm not losing any perfect frames.

Seeing as a lot of you are suggesting that is what is happening, it might just be the engine or something. What looks like is happening from my perspective is that the arrows you're supposed to hit are moving in sync with the stationary arrows at the top when you press a key.

The slight imbalance of hitting left before down, and down before up, more times than the other way round *might* be due to my setup. I change my setup every so often just to avoid overuse of certain keys on my keyboard, and I'm currently using spread on zxcv and every time I press z,x,c,v on my keyboard together in a word document it comes up "zxcv" and not any other order, which might be causing the imbalance. I really don't think it's the shifting effects on omgwtft0k3n, because that would sort of mean I'm losing a "little bit" of a frame somewhere, and frames are supposed to be quantised. (That was probably badly worded. I'm tired.)

So as far as I can see there is no difference in my jump splitting patterns between when I play omgwtft0k3n and when I play anything else.

Obviously if I could tell that I was losing perfect frames owing to the chart moving around, this would be a lot higher than 29 and a lot more annoying to play. But I'm confident in saying this does not happen to me. I'm fine with rating it "??", since one person's playing experience seems to be completely different from another's, but to me this does not play like anything higher than a 30. Even if I were to pick up whatever that token is that you get from an AAA on a 50-52 range on this, I'd feel it's completely unjustified.

oh and one other thing I completely forgot to mention earlier: use offset +2. It's quite noticeably off-sync and as you're going to have to rely heavily on the beat rather than the position of the arrows to know when to hit, that makes a huge difference.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

I was thinking the same thing (nice job on making statistics for it). The gimmick only affects the visual, on-screen positioning of everything on the game field, and it affects everything at once (both receptors and arrows). The actual frames things are hit on shouldn't be affected at all, although the movement might negatively affect the player if they are used to hitting things based on when the arrow passes a specific location.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

I'm gonna need to test this file again later, because I swear to you I would hit a quad that definitely felt like all perfects but nabbed one or two goods because of receptors moving and splitting. I know other people had the same issue so I hope I'm not insane lol. That's really the only reason it took me such a long time to AAA the chart...and if this doesn't occur then.........lmao I'm just baffled.

I can't really argue with what you presented in that post though. Perhaps there's a fraction of a second or so that allows a one frame difference to occur (I have no idea how long it takes the receptors to move after pressing an arrow, maybe you can sneak a split in before they move).

Anyways +1 for '??', gonna get the game managers' opinions on the '??' rating.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:40 PM   #19
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

The receptors should move relative to the notes, though. So the placement of the arrows relative to the receptors at any given time doesn't change. It seems more likely that the receptor movements were tricking you (and possibly others) into hitting a chord at the wrong time, like say centered around the late perfect frame, so that a split that would normally keep your AAA would instead give you a good or two.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

i'd say keep it a 65, or rate it ??

what people said about some D4+ people having huge trouble on it... shouldn't be an oni get, which seems unanimous.
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