TWG VII Postgame Banter

[Tasselfoot]

No worries EB. My storylines will have proper capitalization.

[Kilgamayan]

I've already given chardish a plan to prevent PM snooping in the future. I hope he carries it out in the next game he hosts, or gives it to whoever hosts the next one.

[Tasselfoot]

my plan to prevent PM issues... I WILL NOT BE SENDING OUT PMS! makes life simple, aye?

[alainbryden]

If I had to give out mvp it would go to Stretch for going through with the effort to call me while I was away to keep me updated on the thread and get my opinion, and then post for me. Thankyou all for playing and for being played :P jk.

Okay, Tass, you were NOT simply asking LD what FOXHOUND was. Granted, nobody knew what it was, but the question wasn't "What's FOXHOUND?" It was stated below.

<3 AIM logs.

(00:06:53) Evan: ZOMG PM
(00:07:08) Jay: oh cool
(00:07:12) Jay: Tasselfoot is my choice (NOTE: LD was the guardian before the role switch)
(00:07:17) Evan: k
(00:08:09) Jay: what are you calling Humans?
(00:08:20) Evan: all this will be posted soon
(00:08:27) Jay: now!!!!!!
(00:08:29) Jay: pelase
(00:08:36) Evan: no
(00:08:38) Jay: shit
(00:08:41) Evan: why?
(00:08:42) Jay: i'll "brb' then
(00:08:51) Evan: WHO IS SOLICITING PM INFORMATION
(00:08:55) Jay: :-P
(00:08:56) Jay: noone
(00:08:56) Jay: lol
(00:09:03) Evan: You better not be BSing me
(00:09:07) Jay: I'm not
(00:09:11) Jay: the only person i'm talking to is tass
(00:09:14) Jay: and he hasn't goten his pm yet
(00:13:31) Jay: Tass: i am a FOX*****, you?
(00:13:53) Jay: help me

(00:31:35) Evan: you really should know better though...you essentially proved your humanity to LD because you talked to him before I posted the PM info (an unwise decision by me)
(00:31:54) TasselFoot: uh huh.

Like Guido said, I support the idea of banning Tass from any involvement from TWG8 and 9. I think that's fair. Go back and read through the TWG 5 postgame thread and you'll realize that Tass did this exact same thing and it was firmly established that it was cheating.

Yeah, I did it too in TWG 5. But it was mainly as a one-time silly experiment. I apologized for it, and I didn't do it again. Tass did neither of those things.

[blahblah18]

gg?

[flypie743]

I agree with Guido's idea about Tass.

Yeah, we were screwed since Guido shared everything with Stretchy :<. I have to say I had an alliance with eyespew towards the end, but he didn't have stretchy figured out, and neither did I. I have to say, well played game, stretchy.

[eyespewgreekfire]

I agree that Tass should get a temp ban. I also think that the whole thing with panda and guido was rather unfair. Panda learned of the masons through, although unintentional, illegal ways. The different acess to information that people have is rather unfair. I think that stretchy and guido, as well as tass and whorli, should only be able to play in the same game under these conditions:
1. There is no way for them to log into the other persons AIM, ffr PMs or something by mistake (ie not in the same house).
2. They pledge before the game they will not use their possible unfair advantage.
3. They change their passwords so that they cannot log into each other's account.
This is not the first time that this has been a problem. Tass has logged into whorli's account in the past (not to mention his ordeal with chardish). Panda now unintentionally learns who the masons are, and Guido bases opinions on information he should not have acess to (even though they are wrong. Also, I think this thing with phantom votes in instalynches needs to be amended. The last day was essentially a race to get votes in first. The wolves won on a technicality which should be fixed. I propose these new instalynch rules:
Assuming there are no phantom votes, a player is instalynched when they have >n votes against them when 2n people are playing.
If there are phantom votes for a person who will possibly be instalynched, each phantom vote counts as an additional player in the game. In this protocol, shox would not have been instalynched, since his phantom vote would have added a 6th player to the pool, thus making 4 the number needed to instalynch him.
I also propose that to avoid these situations in the future, we have ffr twg "house rules." This means that official rules for all ffr twg should be written up and posted either as its own sticky or in chardish's twg history thread. I would be happy to write this up if nobody else wants to. (I will ask people to edit it before I post it of course). Any amendments to the house rules can be discussed and agreed upon as a group.


edit: I also want to say that emmcky broke some rules in this game. First he offered to show me his PM (which I of course refused), which isn't quite against the rules, since he did not actually show it. However, he pasted to me a conversation in which Chardish told him some psychic info. When I get home (I'm at my dad's office) I'll post what he sent me. Perhaps a temp ban for him too?

Originally Posted by eyespewgreekfire

I also propose that to avoid these situations in the future, we have ffr twg "house rules." This means that official rules for all ffr twg should be written up and posted either as its own sticky or in chardish's twg history thread. I would be happy to write this up if nobody else wants to. (I will ask people to edit it before I post it of course).

I'm already working on it.

[lightdarkness]

Seriously, this banning Tass nonsense is rediculous.

He asked me what I was, it was no different than saying "I am a Hum**, You?" It's because I didn't know the role! That isn't cheating!

That'd be like saying "You in the KG*" (Oh shit, i'm in the CIA, I don't know what the last letter is!)

Is that cheating? No.

Let Tass host next game, he can't cheat, and hasn't.

[Verruckter]

Wow, looks who's talking about nonsens. Mr. "I try to find things that don't exist in other people's posts". Sry for "flaming" but that annoyed me so much. Bah, I just won't play next time.

[lightdarkness]

Originally Posted by Verruckter

Wow, looks who's talking about nonsens. Mr. "I try to find things that don't exist in other people's posts". Sry for "flaming" but that annoyed me so much. Bah, I just won't play next time.

Hey, I was just trying to find something to vote on, calm yourself.

Originally Posted by lightdarkness

He asked me what I was, it was no different than saying "I am a Hum**, You?" It's because I didn't know the role! That isn't cheating!

You're wrong, because the reason he asked you that was because he wouldn't expect a non-human to know what FOXHOUND was at that very, very early stage in the game. Nor would he expect anyone to know what FOXHOUND was.

This should be obvious.

[evilbutterfly]

Originally Posted by lightdarkness

Let Tass host next game, he can't cheat, and hasn't.

I agree with the first part that he should be allowed to host, but you can't say he hasn't cheated. He has cheated in the past and I think he'll probably continue to cheat or "find loopholes" in the rules.

However, I don't think he should definitly host next game. Other people have been waiting to host for some time and may be they should have their chance first. Tass should host eventually though.

[CypherToorima]

I have one thing to ask the wolves. Why did you wolf me? I hardly knew any of you. I don't really consider myself a super stong player like blah are tass.

It's probably going to something lame like "Eh, we knew you weren't going to be gaurdianed" ;__;

[17:37] Evan: riddle me this, batman
[17:38] Evan: if he wanted to know if you were human or not, why did he phrase the question involving a special term from the PM? why didn't he just ask "are you human?"
[17:38] Jay: he shouldn't be banned
[17:39] Evan: answer my question
[17:39] Jay: sec
[17:40] Jay: halo
[17:42] Jay: back
[17:42] Jay: so
[17:42] Jay: yea, he asked if I was a Fox*****
[17:42] Jay: he didn't say, fill in the stars
[17:42] Jay: I could've said i'm a Fox***** too
[17:42] Evan: [17:38] Evan: if he wanted to know if you were human or not, why did he phrase the question involving a special term from the PM? why didn't he just ask "are you human?"
[17:43] Jay: wasn't just from the PM, it was from the game
[17:43] Evan: It hadn't shown up anywhere but the PM yet
[17:43] Jay: exactly
[17:43] Jay: it should've been hoste
[17:43] Jay: posted*
[17:43] Jay: like I did the game before
[17:43] Evan: Meaning, he brought the PMs into it
[17:44] Evan: That's like saying it's my fault you got shot because I didn't give all my friends bulletproof vests
[17:44] Evan: I didn't think it was necessary because I thought that NO ONE WOULD BE SHOOTING PEOPLE
[17:44] Jay: meaning, I posted all the roles before I sent out the PMs
[17:44] Jay: rather... I told all the special roles, in their PM's, what the other roles were
[17:44] Jay: Just don't' ban him
[17:44] Evan: Tempban.
[17:44] Evan: I think it's right.
[17:44] Jay: not from hosting
[17:45] Evan: Yes from hosting. If he hosts 8 and plays 9, which is exactly what he wants, there's no punishment.
[17:45] Jay: He doesn't deserve to be banned
[17:46] Evan: Tempban.
[17:46] Evan: He should sit out two games.
[17:46] Jay: no
[17:46] Jay: I disagree
[17:46] Jay: who the hell is gonna host next game?
[17:46] Evan: It was firmly established after TWG 5 that any discussion of what's in your PMs is illegal, regardless of the precautions the host decides to take
[17:46] Evan: Cypher and Flypie have both wanted to for about 3 games now.
[17:46] Jay: Flypie says she is going to make the game retarded, and cypher wants 24 people in the game
[17:47] Jay: Oh, Guess by those guys putting the foxhound pic in their sigs is illegial, cause you can't bring in stuff from your PM's
[17:48] Evan: When those guys put the foxhound pic in their sigs, the first story post already came out, which had FOXHOUND written all over it. It was no longer solely in the domain of PMs
[17:48] Jay: lol, I voted Guido day 1
[17:48] Jay: lol
[17:48] Jay: so
[17:48] Jay: you are allowed to talk about your PM
[17:48] Jay: once the roles are annouced?
[17:48] Evan: no
[17:49] Jay: you contradicted yourself
[17:49] Evan: but just because FOXHOUND shows up in the PM doesn't mean you can never say "FOXHOUND" once everyone knows what it is
[17:49] Jay: exactly
[17:49] Jay: so if you would've posted the roles
[17:49] Jay: noproblem
[17:50] Evan: if i don't lock my doors, it's still against the law to come into my house and take my stuff
[17:51] Evan: regardless of the precautions i put in place, cheating is cheating
[17:51] Jay: It's your definition of cheating against mine
[17:51] Evan: we'll see what the others have to say

[flypie743]

[17:45] Evan: Yes from hosting. If he hosts 8 and plays 9, which is exactly what he wants, there's no punishment.

Agreed. He should sit out for two games-hosting and playing.

[eyespewgreekfire]

is everyone here forgetting about emmcky? I think he should get a temp ban too. Here is what he pasted to me: (note: this is not full convo, just the incriminating part)
pntblr54: complete proof i am the psychic
pntblr54: pntblr54: You have no new messages. < im not supposed to be seeing that XD<HR>Auto response from Sindacollion: you are mine besides<HR>
Sindacollion: I was just about to PM you
Sindacollion: So I guess I'll tell you here
Sindacollion: 3 wolves left
pntblr54: k
pntblr54: ahh
pntblr54: ok

[blahblah18]

I gotta agree with Chardish on this one... I also think Jay wants Tass to host for personal reasons immediately which is making the whole thing seem kinda weird.

Awesome how Cypher consideres me a good player even though my win % is ridiculously bad so therefore I must really suck

24 people won't make the game bad LD, we have plenty of players that will play it and in a kinda combo of cypher's (my) idea and Tass's, you can have 3 wolves and a Serial Killer and then you would only need 20 players, which as we all know would be ridiculously easy to get... Or I could host and have some real cool ideas but I wouldn't put time into the stories cuz I just don't have good ideas in that realm, I"m always more of a gameplay guy myself, but heh thats why i'm not asking to moderate.

[roopert]

I also agree with the two game ban for Tass. Yes, Chardish should have posted all of the roles before he sent out the PMs, but that still doesn't give Tass the right to go around it and find a loophole to use to his advantage. It was Just like in game V, he doesn't view it as being wrong and defeating the entire point of the game, rather clever and innovative. I saw him make a post, and while I'm not going to go find it to quote, it said this game isn't about fun, but about winning. That might have been in last game, I'm not sure. I just remember him saying that and going "WTF?". Well, if winning is all you care about, I'll make you a nice pretty banner in paint with a cool title such as "KING OF THE WORLD" or something else to help your ego. Do you think you are the only one who can come up with clever ways to cheat? It really isn't that hard. Yes, you have to do a little bit of thinking, but anyone who sets out to get an unfair advantage and has someone who views the game in the same way they do (LD) can easily do it. Why don't they then? Not because they can't; they would rather play the game with some dignity and win, or lose, fair, knowing they had just as good a chance as someone else to win, and they only lost because they were outplayed. Quit ruining the game for everyone else by trying to cheat so you can get a cool looking sig.

As for new game ideas, I'm all for that. I would love to see some new and innovative ideas incorporated into the future games. I don't want to host, but one of the ideas to be thrown out there is have no seer or masons, instead have one or two humans who, if attacked, somehow fend off the wolves and kill one of them and stay alive, or die with them. Could be interesting, not sure how well it would work.

Chardish, awesome story.

EDIT: Sorry thank sounded a bit harsh, Tass. I just thought it was the best way to get my point across nice and clear.