12-16-2010, 09:25 PM | #1 |
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Solipsism and The problem of other minds
As a matter of fact, all of the existence you know is your perception. Everything you experience is inside your mind.
When you think about it, you realize that there's no way you can be sure whether there really is an objective reality or not. You also can't be sure whether the people around you, despite their behavior, actually feel or think at all like you do. Even though they look similar to you and act in a similar way to you, everything could still be a very well done illusion to make you believe that there are others like you, when, in fact, you're the only thing in existence, other than whatever's responsible for this illusion. Most people completely ignore this subject, but it has always fascinated me. Have you ever had solipsist thoughts? That is, have you ever considered the possibility that existence and your mind are the same? I have seriously considered this. It souds insane, I know. But why does it sound insane? Why, despite the fact that both possibilities are absolutely impossible to prove, people choose to believe in an external reality with other minds? Are the reasons behind this entirely emotional or simply instinctive? It's certainly easier to live when you treat people like they have minds. I do admit, though, that the thought that you're completely alone in existence can cause extreme despair and loneliness, but it somehow gives a notion of power as well.
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12-16-2010, 10:16 PM | #2 |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
People ignore it because the "illusion" (not to imply that it isn't real, but only that it isn't verifiable) of an objective reality with other minds is strong and convincing enough to the point where it really isn't a practical issue (practical used in the loosest sense - obviously most philosophical issues aren't practical, but some at least have implications that could conceivably affect us in some way).
At any rate, there are plenty of arguments against solipsism - most are probability oriented/empirical. The most effective, in my opinion, is simply an inference from the similarity in the physical responses of other bodies to one's own - it's easy enough to infer that they probably have similar mental processes. Of course, that's not definitive, but it's an argument that is inconsequential enough to me that it doesn't require definitive refutation. If you want a logical approach, Sartre offers arguments against solipsism that arise from his ontology - but I don't agree with his ontology and so I don't buy his arguments. I won't bother expanding on that here but if you're interested, you should look up that material. |
12-16-2010, 10:18 PM | #3 |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
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12-17-2010, 12:38 AM | #4 |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
You've probably already read at least some Descartes already, but if you haven't, I recommend it. He basically says the exact same thing you did, and tries to figure out what he can prove is true based on that.
One of his arguments goes like this: Consider some evil demon, whose only purpose is to trick you with every single thing you perceive or observe, including the fact that he doesn't exist. Red is actually blue, your computer is actually a lump of Jello (and your visual and touch sensations are being fooled into believing it's solid), whatever. Obviously, there's very little that we can say is certain about our existences given this, since we can't disprove that the demon exists. However, the very fact that such a demon--if it did exist--would be able to trick you, implies that there is something for it to trick. That is, you exist, with certainty. Similarly, the concepts of "shape" and "color" also exist, as well as a few other things. Even if we assume the worst possible scenario, these things will still be true. You can check out some more of what he said if you're curious, in his Meditations. Anyway, the way I reconciled myself with this possibility is that even if it were true, since I have no way of verifying one way or the other, it doesn't actually matter if it's true. I'm going to behave the same way regardless, since I can never find out what I -should- be doing. Might as well act assuming things are as I perceive them, since I get much more use and satisfaction out of my life that way. |
12-17-2010, 01:15 AM | #5 | |||
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
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12-17-2010, 01:32 AM | #6 |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
I have always been fascinated by solipsism ever since I played Star Ocean: Till the End of Time. Since then, I have accepted that there is no way to disprove that any existence outside of my mind, nor disprove that anything outside of my mind does not exist. That being said, I don't believe that my mind is the only thing that exists or vice-versa; I am a complete agnostic regarding this.
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12-17-2010, 02:43 AM | #7 |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
agnosticism is pretty much the only answer to solopsism unless your ontology allows for its refutation, in which case your ontology is probably flawed
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12-17-2010, 03:07 AM | #8 | |||||
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
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12-17-2010, 06:23 AM | #9 | |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
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12-17-2010, 06:43 AM | #10 | |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
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If I feel, I definitely am something, which means I exist (by definition). It doesn't matter HOW I exist, but I still exist. Also, about the "concepts like shape and color" , I really think you should read about qualia.
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12-17-2010, 06:46 AM | #11 |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
well, I don't think you can discount the possibility that the subject is completely constructed and that to say "I feel" isn't really saying anything definitive at all.
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12-17-2010, 06:51 AM | #12 | |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
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Everything that I know is really what I feel. Something is felt (certainly), and if there is feeling, there must be someone to feel it. What do you mean by constructed? All of the concepts used in the statement "I feel" are based on the most evident things in existence. What would you consider to be more certain than that? How exactly was that relevant to this particular thread?
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12-17-2010, 07:23 AM | #13 | |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
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12-17-2010, 09:31 AM | #14 |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
The problem is that your perception could be 100% faulty in all cases. If "all you know" is your perception, then you don't actually -KNOW- anything at all, because you have no way to determing if what you are perceiving is real.
Cartesian Doubt also has little if anything to do with the problem of Solipsism. Descartes completely fails to put out a rational argument in support of other minds, and barely even gets through proving a thing beyond that he is sure he exists (which isn't applicable to us, because we can't corroborate his statements about himself) You can use the concepts of Cogito, Ergo Sum as a groundwork for supporting Solipsism, but the fact is that Solipsism is pretty much impossible to disprove to someone who has already accepted it, and there's actually no amount of evidence, full stop, that can't be explained away by a solipsist as a construction, so it's entirely moot to make the attempt. |
12-17-2010, 04:08 PM | #15 | |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
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Think about it... The main difference between "external reality" and "dreams" is the fact that external reality is "public" and dreams are "private". Also... "100% faulty" doesn't really make sense when you consider that the "real" universe has no image of itself (it can't possibly have, as it's no observer on it's own). It doesn't really "perceive" itself in a way that's considered "correct". Perception will always be an interpretation of imageless data, and, therefore, will never be the same as the thing-in-itself. In other words... Either every perception is "false", because no perception can be the same as reality, or every perception is "true", because it's still a valid interpretation that allows you to interact with this universe in some way. Did I sound confusing?
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12-18-2010, 09:21 AM | #16 | |
Very Grave Indeed
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
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IE: you assume there -is- a "Thing-in-itself" with no actual evidence to support it. |
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12-18-2010, 10:56 AM | #17 | |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
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Thing about a computer screen. The colored pixels are not the same thing as the bits which generate the images. They're just a projection. Bits are electric signals and pixels convert these electric signals into light. Still, even if you swapped every color of every pixel, the image would still be a projection of the same bits, even if it were incomprehensible. I'm assuming that if there is an external reality at all, then there is a thing-in-itself. If solipsism is right, then perception is all that exists and, therefore, it can't possibly be "false".
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12-21-2010, 02:45 PM | #18 |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
Is it clear why perception can never be the same as external reality?
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01-1-2011, 12:03 PM | #19 |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
Other things than your own mind have to exist. Philosophically, I would demonstrate this in the following way:
If you are the only thing that exists, then there are no other things that exist. Higher entities are things. Therefore, if you are the only thing that exists, then you answer to no higher entities. The physical laws are allegedly higher entities than yourself, as long as we accept that other things exist. But if you are the only real thing, then you do not answer to the physical laws, because the physical laws don't exist. Therefore, the physical laws are imaginary, and you can imagine new physical laws whenever you want. Thus, you can do whatever you want. Physical possibilities are unlimited, since you are the only thing deciding what to do. Once you realize that you cannot instantly get anything or do anything you want, you realize that you answer to a higher power or higher entity. You are not the ultimate source of anything in this universe. You are contingent being that is constrained by some higher workings. And even if the only other entity that exists is something like "the subconscious mind," that's still a separate entity than the conscious mind. For if I am all that exists, then the subconscious mind cannot exist, because I do not have access to its states. Since I do not have access, it is a separate entity from myself, since it is doing separate things from myself. The idea that both minds are the same relies on the fact that they reside within the brain. But the brain is composed of many complex entities which are separate, and so this argument doesn't hold. |
01-1-2011, 01:41 PM | #20 |
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Re: Solipsism and The problem of other minds
I quite like this argument against solipsism. If your mind is the only thing that exists than why is the universe entirely autonomous and consistent, rather than mutable (at least to some extent).
Consider dreams for example. They're entirely a product of our minds, and likewise dreams are largely inconsistent and can be manipulated upon realization of the dream. If the solipsist realizes his solipsism, why can he not modify the universe? Can any solipsists defend this?
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