Official Tier Point System Thread

[rushyrulz]

Does nobody post anything on the front page or change log anymore?

[i love you]

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

so you're saying Yorukumoryuu Yamikaze is harder to AAA than Reality?

Just gave that some re-looking and didn't realize the amount of players who played reality. Reality will be changed to 6 however Yorukumoryuu will also remained as 6 because that file is a high FMO.

Originally Posted by Fantasticone

So does this admit that songs like Piano Concerto 1 are harder than and Ripoff maybe a low FGO? They are worth more points.

Ripoff is probably one of the hardest FMO in the game but it's not worth the 7/7 neither does Piano Concerto.

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

Does nobody post anything on the front page or change log anymore?

I'm pretty sure they still do lol

[rushyrulz]

You'd think a complete rework of the Tier Point system would go on the front page.

[i love you]

Once everything is done, then that might be a possibility.

[Matrixdude]

+1 for qqwref

Mashing should totally be taken out of the question. If a tier point system is to determine the professionals then why let people who cannot even FC a song without mashing a lot be on the top players list?

I think that a system where the lowest point is a low FC with decent PA would work great and would definitely separate the top players from the ones that don't deserve to be in the top players.

[i love you]

Originally Posted by Matrixdude

+1 for qqwref

Mashing should totally be taken out of the question. If a tier point system is to determine the professionals then why let people who cannot even FC a song without mashing a lot be on the top players list?

I think that a system where the lowest point is a low FC with decent PA would work great and would definitely separate the top players from the ones that don't deserve to be in the top players.

I really like this idea myself but I'm waiting for a response from Jimerax which is the main reason why i left it blank.

[jimerax]

so you mean removing all "XXX or higher" reqs?

we already changed ambiguous FC reqs to PA reqs.

[qqwref]

Yeah, but not just removing them, making the lowest PA req 1 point (and the rest go up from there).

[jimerax]

1pt PA req for FSO songs??

can do it for some FGO songs but not all songs I guess.

[qqwref]

Well, not all 1-point requirements will be equal, in my system, so it's not like I think an FSO FC with bad PA could ever be equal to, say, 30 goods on Southern Cross. Everyone good should be able to get a few points on the easiest songs; but only the best should be able to get a few points on the hardest.

I've been thinking about the old system of having all 1-point etc. be equal and it's kind of an odd idea, because it means that you have to make up a combo for harder songs that is somehow equal to decent PA on a much much easier songs. But the big goal of TPs is to determine how skilled someone is, right? I don't think high-FGO mashing ability matters when talking about a player who is at the level of barely non-mash FCing high VCs. That player might be able to get 1 point per song on the highest levels, but not much more, so most of their points will be on songs they can actually play decently, which gives a much better indication of their skill. Similarly, a mid-range player might get a few points on the higher songs, but the number of points there won't be huge enough that FGO FCs will matter more than FMO SDGs. And, for the highest players, they won't be as hurt if they don't have an FC on something like CP.

[jwcgator]

Every time there's an update to the tiers, I lose more points.

[igotrhythm]

Originally Posted by 8 Hour Whore

lmao there goes all my tiers

This. Once again, just as I'm starting to accumulate TP, there's a system change that wipes at least two-thirds of what I did on it. D:<

Edit: I also disagree with the presence of token songs on the list, such as Gaussian Blur 1. They may be hard enough as a file, but the fact remains that not everyone possesses the wherewithal to solve the puzzles and find the tokens. (I know I suck at riddles, which is why I'm not even going to try NotFFRon.) If we're going to find out the top players, skill alone needs to be the main criterion, so while I support the presence of skill tokens (BB Revenge, Melonman's OP), the hidden tokens need to go. Anti-skill tokens like Nanairopanda v2 fall into a sort of gray area in this system.

[smartdude1212]

Tier Points: 667 (627 + 40 for 873 AAAs)

Ahahaha, oh my dumbledore... goodbye T0. It was a blast.

[Izzy]

Welp.. I'm like tier 5 now. Good game.

All of the links on page one go to worthless garbage. Where is the list of the top players? None of those links show it at all.

[jimerax]

qqwref: To prevent mashers from getting points more perfectly, we need to change scoring system itself. Easiest way is adding combo breakers (or just making averages cbs) probably, but we have to wipe scores for that. And what's 1pt reqs for FSO songs then (make them 2000 or fewer or something?)?

igot: yeah regular token songs could be removed, will consider that next time.

[behanjc]

Now you're just asking for ppl to DS to FC crowdpleaser. At least before it was like 4/9 instead of 1 :P

[SK8R43]

Lol, yeah i'm done with Tier points now. Wont EVER reach my goal of 100, went from 95 to 23.
FML!!!

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by jimerax

qqwref: To prevent mashers from getting points more perfectly, we need to change scoring system itself. Easiest way is adding combo breakers (or just making averages cbs) probably, but we have to wipe scores for that.

Well, I talked to Velocity about it, and changing the scoring system would be, if not impossible, a gigantic ordeal (a week of downtime for computation, plus time for backing up the system, plus a lot of work on top of it). Even if we can't actually remove the reliance on combo, we can still optimize the results with the current system, and I think it's better to not give 2-5 point bonuses just for FCing something.

We could actually change the scoring system *without* wiping scores using the following scoring system: perfect = 1550, good = 1275, average = 1055, miss = -310, boo = -20. An admin would have to recalculate the total score on database scores, but scores would not at all need to be wiped. The reason is that this would keep every FC score the same, and all other scores would only increase, so we can keep Grand Total Score totals/ranks intact, and the credit cap as well. We would have to recalculate the non-FC scores, which would be a bit unfair to any very very old (like before 2006ish) non-FC scores, but I have a feeling that anyone who recorded a non-FC score that long ago probably doesn't care all that much about their rank.

Originally Posted by jimerax

And what's 1pt reqs for FSO songs then (make them 2000 or fewer or something?)?

Yeah, something huge like that. Death Piano might be something like 1000 / 500 / 300 / 160 / 80 / 40 / 20 / 9 / AAA (if you wanna go all the way to 9 anyway).

Originally Posted by behanjc

Now you're just asking for ppl to DS to FC crowdpleaser. At least before it was like 4/9 instead of 1 :P

Nope, actually I think fewer people will bother (unless they REALLY want the FC), because it's only 1 point instead of an automatic 4. To be honest, though, I don't think CP should be counted in the TP scale at all.

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I had another idea just now: remember the 0-40 bonus for AAAs? This isn't the BEST system because it asks the best players to play 20+ hours of easy songs for a good rank, plus it needs to be changed every once in a while to be relevant. So how about this: take the average of the difficulty (1-13) of the hardest 100 songs the player has AAA'd. The range 8.0 to 12.0 would be converted into the range of 0 to 40 bonus points - with no points if they don't have 100 AAAs yet. I'd round down, so that an average of 8.00 to 8.09 would be worth 0 points, 8.10 to 8.19 would be worth 1, and so on. So this requires less time spent on songs that a good player can clearly AAA, provides an unattainable goal (until there are a little under 100 FGO+ songs, anyway), and does not need to be updated when new songs are released. As long as the difficulty scale stays the same, this could be in place for literally years.

[i love you]

Wow, can't argue with that. This IMO would actually make the system much more accurate and easier to handle. Plus i think most people would support this more because of the fact that the scoring system qqwerf suggested is now more PA based rather than combo based which is what we want. Of course it would take some coding but I'm sure it's not too difficult. Also, the bonus idea would really make things a lot easier since we wouldn't have to keep updating it as long as the difficultly scale stays in place.

I don't know about you guys but +1 support

[SK8R43]

Sounds good. +1 Support also! Even though im not really that good. lol