Ingame Song Information

[bmah]

So let me get this straight - is a song's difficulty based on how hard it is to AAA a song or how hard it is to combo it?

[Ground_Breaker]

I remember reading that it's based on how difficult it is to AAA. The obvious exceptions to that would be the early Synth files, but just because they're so off-beat doesn't necessarily make them FMOs or something.

[qqwref]

Ideally it should be both, but in reality the difficulty is pretty much completely based on how hard it is to FC without mashing.

If we took AAAs into account, a lot of the early Synth files and rainbow-colored 8s and 9s would be well into VC territory. The first four difficulty 4 songs released have 107, 185, 187, and 188 AAAs; I know of several VCs with more AAAs than that (and which have been around for much less long). So clearly these are not 4s if we consider how hard it is to AAA. I think it's pretty clear that rating those songs as much higher (say 8-9) would be counterproductive, though, because then people would be going "I FC'd my first 8!" and it would be a Synthlight file. So because we have so many beginners on FFR it's better to keep those songs ranked at a low difficulty despite the fact that many top players consider them as hard to AAA as VCs or even FMO/FGO songs.

Maybe we need separate "difficulty" and "complexity" (or something... chaos?) ratings for songs. So the difficulty would be how hard the song actually is to play and the complexity would be how complicated the patterns are, that is, how hard it is to AAA the song.

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Ideally it should be both, but in reality the difficulty is pretty much completely based on how hard it is to FC without mashing.

If we took AAAs into account, a lot of the early Synth files and rainbow-colored 8s and 9s would be well into VC territory. The first four difficulty 4 songs released have 107, 185, 187, and 188 AAAs; I know of several VCs with more AAAs than that (and which have been around for much less long). So clearly these are not 4s if we consider how hard it is to AAA. I think it's pretty clear that rating those songs as much higher (say 8-9) would be counterproductive, though, because then people would be going "I FC'd my first 8!" and it would be a Synthlight file. So because we have so many beginners on FFR it's better to keep those songs ranked at a low difficulty despite the fact that many top players consider them as hard to AAA as VCs or even FMO/FGO songs.

Maybe we need separate "difficulty" and "complexity" (or something... chaos?) ratings for songs. So the difficulty would be how hard the song actually is to play and the complexity would be how complicated the patterns are, that is, how hard it is to AAA the song.

Difficulty is actually divided into both FC and AAA, but each only applies to the two levels of players: Pro's and non pro's. What does that mean? The line of when you enter 'pro' out of these two difficulties is when you can clean FC 3 FMO's. People below pro should not concentrate on AAA's, but ONLY clean FC's, as that's the highest they'll probably reach at their level. So, for non-pro's, a songs difficulty is how hard it is to clean FC. But once you reach 'pro' level, or where I am, you should be able to clean FC or SDB every FMO and a few FGO's. Once you reach that point, FC is irrelevant and the difficulty concentration goes to AAA'ing. For most pro's, the synth files aren't hard AAA's at all, they're just annoying. The ONLY hard one is SSSG, which should be Difficult IMO just for annoyingness.

So yeah, if you are non-pro, a songs difficulty is gauged by FC. Once you're a pro, your perspective completely changes, and difficulty is generally gauged by how hard it is to AAA.

When you reach 'pro', you'll realize the VC songs with a lot of AAA's are still much harder than the easy songs with nearly no AAA's, because it won't seem as hard now that you're better. But this is just my view on things

[sc979]

There are 36 VC songs that have as much or more AAAs than SoSaSG right now.

edit:
no, SoSaSG is not VC.

IMO

Story of Snowman and Sunshine Girl / 4->5
The Lion's Dance / 6->7
Death Piano / 12->13

None Would Escape / 11->10
Dot Death / 10->9
Mario Eurobeat / 7->6

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Originally Posted by sc979

There are 36 VC songs that have as much or more AAAs than SoSaSG right now.

lol, SoSaSG should be a VC then.

[dore]

you can't discount pass difficulty, either... while that doesn't affect that many players it affects many who could possibly become good with enough practice

also jesus christ so many unnecessary apostrophes ksdfkjsdnhflkajsh

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by stavie33

The line of when you enter 'pro' out of these two difficulties is when you can clean FC 3 FMO's. [...] But once you reach 'pro' level, or where I am, you should be able to clean FC or SDB every FMO and a few FGO's.

Right now I have 10 clean FMO FCs... but I think I'd have to be a lot better than I am now to FC every FMO or SDB any FGO [actually, wait, I have 8 boos on Ketsarku, but that doesn't count]. Your definitions are a bit off from each other.

Originally Posted by stavie33

When you reach 'pro', you'll realize the VC songs with a lot of AAA's are still much harder than the easy songs with nearly no AAA's, because it won't seem as hard now that you're better. But this is just my view on things

I kind of agree with you there; however the VC songs with a lot of AAAs are typically not easy but rather "straightforward". By that I mean they're easy-to-read patterns (mostly stream and jumps) at a rather slow speed. So as long as you can keep on the beat and you can read/hit the notes, it shouldn't be all that difficult to AAA those songs. On the other hand, stuff like Synth files and TGWP (and piano files in general) is really tough to AAA because it's not at all straightforward - you have to basically be able to read the notes individually, and just keeping on the beat won't cut it. Files like those are often much easier than VC level in terms of raw difficulty (as in the speed and reading ability required to FC them) but quite tough to AAA because no matter how good you are at reading and hitting standard stream/jumpstream/jump/jack patterns you still have to be able to PA individual notes with pretty much random placements, which is IMO a separate skill which players won't get from just practicing stream songs. So... yeah, I'd definitely say a song like BB Euro or Cutting Circles is harder than SSSG or Legend of Zelda, but in some sense it's easier to AAA.

In addition, I think songs that are easier than VC actually have fewer AAAs than they deserve. What I mean is that if you put a specific song into FFR, and call it a low VC, it will have many more AAAs in a year than if you had called it a high C. I've noticed this a lot between Cs and VCs of similar difficulty and length. I think one reason is that songs of VC difficulty or higher look difficult enough to be worth trying, so people who have previously played SM and come to FFR are much more likely to give those a shot (and possibly AAA them) than to try easier songs. In addition a lot of VC+ songs are in the tier point list, so there's a real incentive for any player who CAN AAA a given VC+ to do it, whereas only some players will be willing to go AAA a random C (the same players who go AAA all the easy songs).

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Right now I have 10 clean FMO FCs... but I think I'd have to be a lot better than I am now to FC every FMO or SDB any FGO [actually, wait, I have 8 boos on Ketsarku, but that doesn't count]. Your definitions are a bit off from each other.


I kind of agree with you there; however the VC songs with a lot of AAAs are typically not easy but rather "straightforward". By that I mean they're easy-to-read patterns (mostly stream and jumps) at a rather slow speed. So as long as you can keep on the beat and you can read/hit the notes, it shouldn't be all that difficult to AAA those songs. On the other hand, stuff like Synth files and TGWP (and piano files in general) is really tough to AAA because it's not at all straightforward - you have to basically be able to read the notes individually, and just keeping on the beat won't cut it. Files like those are often much easier than VC level in terms of raw difficulty (as in the speed and reading ability required to FC them) but quite tough to AAA because no matter how good you are at reading and hitting standard stream/jumpstream/jump/jack patterns you still have to be able to PA individual notes with pretty much random placements, which is IMO a separate skill which players won't get from just practicing stream songs. So... yeah, I'd definitely say a song like BB Euro or Cutting Circles is harder than SSSG or Legend of Zelda, but in some sense it's easier to AAA.

In addition, I think songs that are easier than VC actually have fewer AAAs than they deserve. What I mean is that if you put a specific song into FFR, and call it a low VC, it will have many more AAAs in a year than if you had called it a high C. I've noticed this a lot between Cs and VCs of similar difficulty and length. I think one reason is that songs of VC difficulty or higher look difficult enough to be worth trying, so people who have previously played SM and come to FFR are much more likely to give those a shot (and possibly AAA them) than to try easier songs. In addition a lot of VC+ songs are in the tier point list, so there's a real incentive for any player who CAN AAA a given VC+ to do it, whereas only some players will be willing to go AAA a random C (the same players who go AAA all the easy songs).

Completely agree, and a big reason that synth songs aren't AAA'd as much is that many good players and pro's don't like playing easy songs at all, as it's boring, I was that way until one week I had nothing to do so I tried to AAA every song I could. But a lot of them, like TC Halogen, Minacious, and many, many more could easily AAA them but don't because it's not fun and the files suck. I bet that nearly half the people that have 1 or more VC AAA's could AAA any of the synth files if they took the time, but no one wants to, and that's why they have such a small AAA count.

[bmah]

In other words, the number of AAAs in a song is not an absolute, but at most a relative, attribute in determining song difficulty.

[Bolth mannn]

then there comes songs like improvisation et chien. its not too hard to FC, but AAAing takes quite a lot of reading skills. i think these kind of songs are what are leveled according to AAA

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

I don't know if this was ever brought up But I'm inclined to ask.
Are the difficulties wrong or is Oni not unlockable on all FMO's as the token conditions "AAA a For Master's Only" state? Same thing with Heavy 'cept it's only like one song.
That was just looking at the list of public songs by the way.

[Bolth mannn]

Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX

I don't know if this was ever brought up But I'm inclined to ask.
Are the difficulties wrong or is Oni not unlockable on all FMO's as the token conditions "AAA a For Master's Only" state? Same thing with Heavy 'cept it's only like one song.
That was just looking at the list of public songs by the way.

pretty much everyone wants the oni token to be unlockable by any FMO.

apparently, only the FMOs that were already out when the token was released, still unlock oni.

meh.

[cedolad]

Which I find retarded/lazy.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn

pretty much everyone wants the oni token to be unlockable by any FMO.

It's not about what we want it's about the fact that I can AAA a FMO that's easier than FOTBB and unlock Oni yet I AAA FOTBB and no Oni get. I just don't see the logic behind it.

[qqwref]

I don't see why it even has to be a list of songs. It should just be "ok, you AAA'd the song... is it a difficulty 11? yes? you get Oni". That can't be hard to check.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Originally Posted by qqwref

I don't see why it even has to be a list of songs. It should just be "ok, you AAA'd the song... is it a difficulty 11? yes? you get Oni". That can't be hard to check.

This seems better.

[Niala]

Originally Posted by qqwref

I don't see why it even has to be a list of songs. It should just be "ok, you AAA'd the song... is it a difficulty 11? yes? you get Oni". That can't be hard to check.

Agreed. Especially considering how few people are actually able to AAA an FMO, even if the list was widened, they wouldn't have to do a whole of lot extra work to distribute the token to those who already AAA'd FMO's.

[TK_goelo]

i think that can be done with [heavy]

[Bolth mannn]

I have reason to believe that until you leave (heavy) should be a low 7.

besides the amount of notes for a lvl 6, its got those annoying slow jacks all the way through the song just like first try as well as some akward jump patterns and some 16ths that dont fit as a lvl 6.


good song though...brb updating artist blanket permission thread