Rarity Attempts 400 Dresses (LOOMING MIX) [75 or 77]

[Lambdadelta]

There are a lot of quick transition patterns that are quite brutal, even though you can jump trill the bursts it doesn't always give you the best PA and combo is quite easy to loose if your not used to dense speed files.

I'm suggesting a bump to the minimum of 77.

As dossar said the other night. There are some framer issues and patterns that warrant the difficulty change.

Sorry I'm not good at explaining stuff like this. But this is nowhere on par with some of the other 75's...

I will look for some songs to compare it to.

Screen shots included now below.

First image is a roll where the start of the pattern makes it into a [12] jump instead of a roll as it should be


is a pretty mean transition if your not prepared for it or don't expect it at this speed.

Another framer at 773 combo mark
which is pretty much the same as the first framer, the pattern is forced into a [34] jump rather then starting off as a roll.



it appears to be similar to the ending pattern in WWE The 32 23 pattern


See above image, it is the exact same pattern.


the ending is
there appears to be another framer with the triplet at the end which is slightly off compared to the triplet just in front of it.



goes with above image.

Minijack framer issue, I'm guessing this wasn't meant to be there.


This is just a complete mess.
Easy to trip up here


by far the most screwed pattern

[One Winged Angel]

Approved, we'll see what you guys have to say about this one.

My reasoning for 76 (I've since asked the Game Managers to bump it to 76, so that'll be the min rating at the conclusion of this thread) is that 32nd rolls at this speed (250bpm) are already encountered in mid-FMO songs such as Famicom Selecta, which is currently sitting at 72. Dumping more of them in a file at this speed certainly raises the overall difficulty of the file (unfortunately more so on an artificial level due to framer issues at bpms above 225) but not so much as to extend the difficulty to FGO territory. I will say though that the minitrill transitions that occur four times throughout the file after 32nds can be awkward to PA.

I think this file sits well as a high FMO. The file's mostly [12] and [34] jumps + jumptrilling; I really don't see the need to extend the difficulty beyond 76.

[SK8R43]

Yeah what OWA said. It doesnt really need to go past 76 really. This is a file where you either can or cant do it well. Its mostly just jumps and easily jumptrillable bursts and crap. BUT if this gets to be a 77+, then this will be my scarhand get because then ill whore it and i know with some practice i can nail this lmao

[smartdude1212]

Completely agree with Rob. I was fine with it at a 75 simply because the only actual difficulty from the file (aside from the framer issues that FFR contributes by default) comes from the transitions into and out of the 32nds -- namely those trills, the repeated jumps that favour the left hand (I love to get boos here), and those green grace notes that can just be hit like jumps but might still interrupt the flow for you.

As far as overall pattern choice goes for a higher BPM song though, it's still quite friendly.

[Lambdadelta]

OP updated.

[LongGone]

76 to me; the framers errywhere need luck to hit well and needs good anticipation for jumptrilling them correctly

[DossarLX ODI]

I'll try to get to frame fixes on this soon. In its current state some of the 32nd bursts create 2 frame minijacks and zeroframers are ugly. The 64ths should also be all jumps lol

[One Winged Angel]

If you're going to do frame fixes for the file, I hope you don't completely rid the file of zero frame gaps within 32nd rolls. Otherwise all of the rolls will play at 225bpm instead of 250bpm, which isn't right. I'd just fix the frames in such a way that there aren't any 1[23]4 or 4[32]1 patterns within the rolls (if they even exist). And fixing crap like this:



As well as the 64ths of course.

The zero framers shouldn't be completely eliminated imo, otherwise the rolls will play slower in comparison to the rest of the file.

[Charu]

I think a 76-77 would be fine. Those jump sections with the rolls can be very PA breaking if you're not constantly on the move.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

I find 76 to be really accurate. This is hard to explain but it doesn't feel like it should be an fgo, but it currently plays very similar to one.

[bballa48]

Voting 75. I just don't see how this is harder than a single one of the files listed as a 75, except MAYBE Hellhounds. It looks more like a 74 to me.

[~Zeta~]

76. Constant jumptrilling within 1-2 frames is all luck when you're playing a 3-frame perfect window. Do that multiple times and it gets dumb. It's such an artificial difficulty to the game and file. Also, those 16th trills and awkward jumpstream patterns are hard. I don't see this even comparing to Mario Minor or Hellhounds.

It fits right up there with Mermaid Island, Flesvelka, and Crash Up Against the Inevitable.

imo, rolls shouldn't be allowed over 225/240. Anything after that is just getting stupid with fake difficulty.

[megamon88]

Originally Posted by ~Zeta~

76. Constant jumptrilling within 1-2 frames is all luck when you're playing a 3-frame perfect window. Do that multiple times and it gets dumb. It's such an artificial difficulty to the game and file.

Doesn't this make it a lot easier to jumptrill?

Also, I agree with it being a 76, it's pretty tough to hit the jumps consistently well to PA.

[~Zeta~]

It's just my opinion, but no. rolls should be rollable, not mashed. when you have 1 frame gapped rolls, you have a 2 frame window to hit a perfect. Hit the early perfect window of the first arrow, it's a good for the second. Hit the late perfect for the second arrow, the first arrow is a good.

[stavie33]

I've honestly been very adamant about leaving this at 75. The files extremely straightforward and the patterns are really not that tricky, there's like ONE bad anchor that occurs twice, since the end is the same as the beginning. The middle's also an easy break so the song isn't that stamina draining, it just requires some speed. Since it doesn't require constant streaming either (actually the 16th bursts flow really well and are infrequent enough to not cause many problems) so really the song doesn't require that much speed either, just 250bpm 8th jumping. That's speed, but it's not like reality. I like to compare this song to Tsugihagi construction and Of Course I Need and Need and Need You. Tsugihagi is like a much tougher version of this song, because it requires some awkward one handed patterns, has a more varied jumpstream with lots more 16ths, and the rolls are harder to jumptrill. Tsugihagi is pretty much a tougher version of this song, so it's reasonable that it's higher than this song, making this song automatically below 77. Of Course I Need is fast, and has lots of jumps and 16th bursts as well, the only real difference in difficulty of the two songs I'd say are the 32nds in this one, but since you can straight up jumptrill them I don't see a huge difference in difficulty, and everyone does well on Of Course.

So now it looks like a 75, is definitely below 77 (since tsugihagi is the same song with more frequent and complex patterns), why not 76? Well let's look at the 76's. PianoXForteXScandal, Flesvelka, Mermaid Island, Kono Spoon, Ripoff, etc. All these songs are PA nightmares, and are far harder to PA than this song, and most I'd argue are harder to FC. No patterns in this song compare to Ripoff or Mermaid Island, or even worse, PXFXS. This song is not only easier to FC that these songs (you can mash FC this one pretty well, but the jacks in the other ones are hard, and clean FC wise I'd also argue Kono Spoon, Flesvelka, and Ripoff are harder). So these songs are a lot harder to PA, arguably harder to clean FC, and overall harder to do/score well on, by a comfortable amount. They just might not be as easy to FC if you don't have the speed. It's really a speed thing but in comparison to songs above it and below it, I think 75 suits it perfectly fine, right above Of Course You Need Me

[TC_Halogen]

The hardest points of the file are really short 16th sprints, or the occasional anchored jumps, but that is it. The patterns contained within the song are very smooth and forgiving, and all of the 32nds can be jumptrilled easily.

As far as the argument of "rolls should be rolled", you can choose to roll the rolls if you'd like, but the fact of the matter is that they are mathematically fast enough to be jumptrilled, and likely will be done as such because they are past the speed of being manageable for just about anyone. Inflate the rating and it'll be an easy new-scale-Guru AAA for people when it simply shouldn't be a Guru level file. Leave it at 75.

EDIT: also going to add that this file really doesn't need frame fixes; if 225 BPM 16ths are two frames apart and can be jumped if timed properly, I fail to see why one/zero frame discrepancies need to be fixed; things like this cause mathematical errors of speed in charts, like the end of Tenimuhou being incorrectly timed compared to how it should be done. I don't remember there being any 0-framers on U/D jumps, but that is the only case where it really should be fixed; this over-obsession with frame fixes is getting obnoxious; just fix what is needed and move on

[qqwref]

For what it's worth, I find this song waaay harder than PXFXS, kono spoon, and Ripoff.

And Halogen, 76 is still comfortably in the FMO range.

[Lambdadelta]

Originally Posted by stavie33

I've honestly been very adamant about leaving this at 75. The files extremely straightforward and the patterns are really not that tricky, there's like ONE bad anchor that occurs twice, since the end is the same as the beginning. The middle's also an easy break so the song isn't that stamina draining, it just requires some speed. Since it doesn't require constant streaming either (actually the 16th bursts flow really well and are infrequent enough to not cause many problems) so really the song doesn't require that much speed either, just 250bpm 8th jumping. That's speed, but it's not like reality. I like to compare this song to Tsugihagi construction and Of Course I Need and Need and Need You. Tsugihagi is like a much tougher version of this song, because it requires some awkward one handed patterns, has a more varied jumpstream with lots more 16ths, and the rolls are harder to jumptrill. Tsugihagi is pretty much a tougher version of this song, so it's reasonable that it's higher than this song, making this song automatically below 77. Of Course I Need is fast, and has lots of jumps and 16th bursts as well, the only real difference in difficulty of the two songs I'd say are the 32nds in this one, but since you can straight up jumptrill them I don't see a huge difference in difficulty, and everyone does well on Of Course.

So now it looks like a 75, is definitely below 77 (since tsugihagi is the same song with more frequent and complex patterns), why not 76? Well let's look at the 76's. PianoXForteXScandal, Flesvelka, Mermaid Island, Kono Spoon, Ripoff, etc. All these songs are PA nightmares, and are far harder to PA than this song, and most I'd argue are harder to FC. No patterns in this song compare to Ripoff or Mermaid Island, or even worse, PXFXS. This song is not only easier to FC that these songs (you can mash FC this one pretty well, but the jacks in the other ones are hard, and clean FC wise I'd also argue Kono Spoon, Flesvelka, and Ripoff are harder). So these songs are a lot harder to PA, arguably harder to clean FC, and overall harder to do/score well on, by a comfortable amount. They just might not be as easy to FC if you don't have the speed. It's really a speed thing but in comparison to songs above it and below it, I think 75 suits it perfectly fine, right above Of Course You Need Me

wow... You have a very good point.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by qqwref

For what it's worth, I find this song waaay harder than PXFXS, kono spoon, and Ripoff.

And Halogen, 76 is still comfortably in the FMO range.

It is on the 13-point scale, but not in the current 20-point translation (where Guru is 76+).

[qqwref]

Hm, maybe we need to fix the 20-point scale to reflect the "old" difficulties then. I personally don't use the 20-point scale at all since I have 1-99.