The history of.. ZiGZaG & Onyx (Riddles we didnt see)

[Oni-Paranoia]

So here's the story of how ITG's great artist ZiGZaG came to be and his riddles.

Onyx was originally a group of people who made the song "!" (BANG) as seen in ITG 2. One guy named, Darien Kooper (idk if that's the exact spelling of his first name) decided to make an 'album cover' for the group. The rest of the group hated his drawing for it. The picture is a warped form of Bowser.

There's the first hint of the riddle (Last name = Kooper ... Bowser = Koopa King). That picture is also my Avatar (I just liked the picture, demonic imo).

EDIT: This BG is from ITG3 (High Quality BG). The PIU BG is sorta smudged as if it were painted a bit.




Before he separated from the group, he made 2 songs (under Onyx). 'Hasse Mich' which should have appeared in ITG 3 but makes an appearance in PIU Pro and 'Stop! & Go'.

Notice in the picture above the words Hasse Mich appear above Onyx. In German, Hasse Mich means "I hate". So put it all together and you get "I HATE ONYX". (Possibly "Hate Me Onyx") << second riddle trick.

EDIT:According to the legit German 'coolboyrulez0' Hasse Mich = Hate me

Stop! & Go for some reason represented him driving (which explains all the car sounds). Notice in the song, there's a part towards the end where there's a BIG scream. The scream represents the rest of Onyx (put it together).


Also in this SS, notice the pattern that is made before the scream.




Does the pattern look familiar??

Yea, that's right. Its a zigzag, representing his solo name.. ZiGZaG.

EDIT: More towards the beginning of this file, a smiley face is created (with mines and steps) and at the very end, a frown.

EDIT: Rethinking again, there was a 'Myth' about Stop! 2 Go (Remix of the original obviously) which I have yet to come across....

Later in PIU the rest of ZiGZaG's songs will appear. (Pandemonium and VerTex² and new songs in the future)

No I wont tell how i got this info but this came from him directly unless I miss heard anything from a friend of his which is a very personal friend of mine.
In other news, he creates steps for PIU and DDR. Mostly the insanely stupid stuff like Fascination's etc. (So I have heard but really do NOT believe)

Information is subject to change, but that's the gist of it.

[travman301]

Lmao. No one would ever figure that out on their own in a million years.

And if you hadn't heard it directly from the guy, I would tell you that you were over thinking it like ****.

The zigzag is cool though. That's the only one that really makes sense.

[Coolboyrulez0]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

In German, Hasse Mich means "I hate".

Not to sound like a dick but your way wrong. I am a full fledged german, born and raised and Hasse Mich means Hate Me. I hate would mean Ich Hasse...

So that theory is flawed :O

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

Stop & Go for some reason represented him driving (which explains all the car sounds). Notice in the song, there's a part towards the end where there's a BIG scream. The scream represents the rest of Onyx (before he hits them).


Also in this SS, notice the pattern that is made before the scream.




Does the pattern look familiar??

Yea, that's right. Its a zigzag, representing his solo name.. ZiGZaG.

Later in PIU the rest of ZiGZaG's songs will appear. (Pandemonium and VerTex² and new songs in the future)

No I wont tell how i got this info but this came from him directly unless I miss heard anything from a friend of his which is a very personal friend of mine.
In other news, he creates steps for PIU and DDR. Mostly the insanely stupid stuff like Fascination's etc.

Information is subject to change, but that's the gist of it.

I like the story a lot. There's just one problem with it.

Kyle Ward has already admitted to being BOTH pseudonyms. While not believable, there are also a few signs of this as well. The most simplistic and fitting sign would be that in the ITG2 credits screen, ZigZag isn't accounted for in the credits, while all other artists are indirectly addressed. I also overheard about Hasse Mich being Kyle's first attempt at gabber, which is why Hasse Mich grabbed my attention.

However, since Kyle continues to deny it to most fans, yet he has admitted to his closest friends that these are in-fact his pseudonyms. I'm not 100% sure about Onyx being the same artist, and I do like that justification. BUT...

Does the pattern look familiar??

Yea, that's right. Its a zigzag, representing his solo name.. ZiGZaG.

Later in PIU the rest of ZiGZaG's songs will appear. (Pandemonium and VerTex² and new songs in the future)

No I wont tell how i got this info but this came from him directly unless I miss heard anything from a friend of his which is a very personal friend of mine.
In other news, he creates steps for PIU and DDR. Mostly the insanely stupid stuff like Fascination's etc.

As far as the bosses go in DDR and comparing them to PIU/ITG charts, many of the official charts were tagged with their original artists, including the PIU charts, and I'm going to have to disagree with you saying that the same step-artist of Fascination MaxX is the same as VerTex³.

Not saying that the story behind the riddles is bad, it's actually quite intriguing how well things fit together. However, many of the things can be disproved, or proven as coincidence based off of parts of the community who actually work on real projects.

I was actually interested in reading this, Sam. I hope you respond back so we can talk more about this. ^^

EDIT: Yeah, I knew it was Hate Me. In fact, when the ITG3 project had first been "leaked", there were some make-shift animations that the BG mis-contrasted, with HATE ME in a scratched, bloody text. I had this on my older computer, I wonder if I can still dig it out. =o

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

I like the story a lot. There's just one problem with it.

Kyle Ward has already admitted to being BOTH pseudonyms. While not believable, there are also a few signs of this as well. The most simplistic and fitting sign would be that in the ITG2 credits screen, ZigZag isn't accounted for in the credits, while all other artists are indirectly addressed. I also overheard about Hasse Mich being Kyle's first attempt at gabber, which is why Hasse Mich grabbed my attention.

However, since Kyle continues to deny it to most fans, yet he has admitted to his closest friends that these are in-fact his pseudonyms. I'm not 100% sure about Onyx being the same artist, and I do like that justification. BUT...

Onyx was a group, i wouldn't be surprised if Kyle was part of it along with others. If ITG kept going and stopped using ZiGZaG at like ITG 4, then this would have been full-proof. Also, Kyle lies a lot about ZiGZaG and Onyx since both are very underground artists.

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

As far as the bosses go in DDR and comparing them to PIU/ITG charts, many of the official charts were tagged with their original artists, including the PIU charts, and I'm going to have to disagree with you saying that the same step-artist of Fascination MaxX is the same as VerTex³.

VerTex³ has like 20 official edits apparently. VVV is just as bad any DDR boss chart though. Only thing that puzzles me is ZiGZaG working with Konami AND RoXoR?? Doubtful

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

EDIT: Yeah, I knew it was Hate Me. In fact, when the ITG3 project had first been "leaked", there were some make-shift animations that the BG mis-contrasted, with HATE ME in a scratched, bloody text. I had this on my older computer, I wonder if I can still dig it out. =o

Dig it out and post or send to me asap. This song is the main piece of evidence on the situation. There were only 2 songs, unless Stop & Go 2 (w.e its called) was true...


EDIT:

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

Not to sound like a dick but your way wrong. I am a full fledged german, born and raised and Hasse Mich means Hate Me. I hate would mean Ich Hasse...

So that theory is flawed :O

Whatever way its twisted its against Onyx in a bad way. I also could have sworn he meant "I hate" or at least that was what it originally was supposed to mean. Thanks for pointing that out.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

Onyx was a group, i wouldn't be surprised if Kyle was part of it along with others. If ITG kept going and stopped using ZiGZaG at like ITG 4, then this would have been full-proof. Also, Kyle lies a lot about ZiGZaG and Onyx since both are very underground artists.

It's still debatable, and really is inconclusive. People close to Kyle say that he is, everyone else thinks it is but gets denied.

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

VerTex³ has like 20 official edits apparently. VVV is just as bad any DDR boss chart though. Only thing that puzzles me is ZiGZaG working with Konami AND RoXoR?? Doubtful

Yeah, that does not sound right to me at all. After the suit with Konami, the last thing that RoXoR would want to do is try to come back with DDR's music artists. So, that does seem out of line to me.

The one thing I would like to point out though, the VVV chart for Pump was stepped by Kyle Ward, and I'm highly doubtful that he bothered to work for DDR (this is directed at the point of Darren Kooper being a stepartist for bosses on BOTH games)--the timing and the reason just doesn't seem right.

[/quote]

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Yeah, that does not sound right to me at all. After the suit with Konami, the last thing that RoXoR would want to do is try to come back with DDR's music artists. So, that does seem out of line to me.
The one thing I would like to point out though, the VVV chart for Pump was stepped by Kyle Ward, and I'm highly doubtful that he bothered to work for DDR (this is directed at the point of Darren Kooper being a stepartist for bosses on BOTH games)--the timing and the reason just doesn't seem right.

Even so, it depends on the contracts. There is those 3 DDR songs in ITG which means not ALL songs are copyrighted to DDR. Also, I heard K.Ward did NOT step Pandy and that its a cover-up for Darren. Possibly likely to be the same with VerTex³ but the DDR thing makes me laugh. If Darren was NOT a song artist for DDR, why couldn't he be for ITG? Its not contradicting fully... That also possibly could explain why K.Ward is labeled the step artist for Pandy.. if that's true.

[Tasselfoot]

i thought about IMing Kyle directly about this thread... but i realized he'd either never give a complete answer, or you just wouldn't believe him.

so i IMed Ryan McKanna instead... i'm sure he'll respond here once he sees it.

[revolutionomega]

Wow I think this is cool. Hope to see more on this!

[Plaguefox]

This is amazing fiction.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

i thought about IMing Kyle directly about this thread... but i realized he'd either never give a complete answer, or you just wouldn't believe him.

so i IMed Ryan McKenna instead... i'm sure he'll respond here once he sees it.

I dont think i was supposed to leak any of that info, oh well. We all deserve to know

Originally Posted by KgZ

does it even matter?

Personally yes, and for other ppl outside this community like ITG players, yea this matters a lot.

Originally Posted by Plaguefox

This is amazing fiction.

Theoretical observations and clues. Also some of this info SUPPOSEDLY came from darren himself.

[Plaguefox]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

Theoretical observations and clues. Also some of this info SUPPOSEDLY came from darren himself.

The charming part is that there's an actual, real easter egg in the screenshot you provided.

Information subject to change as people debunk your original information?

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by KgZ

...Why? It's not like you're gonna gain anything out of this other than the satisfaction of knowing (or think of knowing) the truth.

and your point?? It might seem very pointless to you but "the satisfaction of knowing (or think of knowing) the truth" is good enough for me

Originally Posted by Plaguefox

Information subject to change as people debunk your original information?

No, but since truly there is no telling what's exactly true or not which makes this a theory. When i was told this information, I just posted to share what I know and see if anyone else had anything to say about it. Not many people here know ITG except me, Halogen and a few others to the point of caring about it.

Also notice how I don't delete anything I first posted, I just add on other ideas from either others or myself since this has a bit of attention and actually seeing if any of this is or can even be true.

[Plaguefox]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

No, but since truly there is no telling what's exactly true or not which makes this a theory.

Well, there's a definite truth to everything you cited there, it's not really up for educated debate like "Science vs. Religion" or anything like that. For instance, the Hasse Mich image you posted above was skinticket's recreation of the original that might eventually have appeared in ITG3. This original version of the demon background did appear in PIU Pro, and the version that appeared in the community-built ITG3 content pack was skinticket's redraw, rather than the other way around.

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

When i was told this information, I just posted to share what I know and see if anyone else had anything to say about it. Not many people here know ITG except me, Halogen and a few others to the point of caring about it.

Well, my guess (based on the tremendous—albeit creative—innacuracies) is that your friend fed you a line of bull and hoped you would feed it into an echochamber. Perhaps a friend of his did the same to him? I'd find it absolutely delightful if this Darien Kooper character was a telephone-game version of Dalton Kuepker. But that's mostly because I like saying his name.

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

Also notice how I don't delete anything I first posted, I just add on other ideas from either others or myself since this has a bit of attention and actually seeing if any of this is or can even be true.

Aah, well, you did originally suggest that this was the "history" and the "story" of ZiGZaG, it's only later on that you admit it's a theory.

In any case, good lord almighty that's not supposed to be Bowser. It's just demon imagery that was created specifically for the song. It did have a name, but I can't remember what it was. If I do I'll let you know since you like the image enough to avatarize it.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by Plaguefox

Well, my guess (based on the tremendous—albeit creative—innacuracies) is that your friend fed you a line of bull and hoped you would feed it into an echochamber. Perhaps a friend of his did the same to him? I'd find it absolutely delightful if this Darien Kooper character was a telephone-game version of Dalton Kuepker. But that's mostly because I like saying his name.

Yea, I called BS on a lot of things he tells me but this in some areas made perfect sense, like the Stop and go SS. Also idk if thats even his name all i know is it starts with a D and its something similar, and idk what game your talking about xD

Originally Posted by Plaguefox

Aah, well, you did originally suggest that this was the "history" and the "story" of ZiGZaG, it's only later on that you admit it's a theory.In any case, good lord almighty that's not supposed to be Bowser. It's just demon imagery that was created specifically for the song. It did have a name, but I can't remember what it was. If I do I'll let you know since you like the image enough to avatarize it.

I thought the name would interest many people, especially players that knew who the artist was. This is not an ITG community so I know the thread would grab the attention of those who were eager to read it. Also, I know its not "supposed" to be Bowser, but the similarity through the chain of BS makes sense.

Also yes, plz find the name, its been avatar for the last year and half on ANY website. Id buy it and trademark if I had the chance or atleast Redraw it better because now it seems dull after awhile.

[Plaguefox]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

idk what game your talking about xD

Here's more information on the Telephone game, or "Chinese Whispers":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_whispers

The More You Know.

[Draigun]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

Onyx was originally a group of people who made the song "!" (BANG) as seen in ITG 2. One guy named, Darien Kooper (idk if that's the exact spelling of his first name) decided to make an 'album cover' for the group. The rest of the group hated his drawing for it. The picture is a warped form of Bowser.

There's the first hint of the riddle (Last name = Kooper ... Bowser = Koopa King). That picture is also my Avatar (I just liked the picture, demonic imo).

I stopped reading after this point. If I recall correctly, the Hasse Mich image was done by Aja Williams or KamiCheetah (as her alias). She had it uploaded to her gallery for a bit, but it seems she's taken it down so I don't have exact proof. Either way, your entire "theory" is pretty flawed and I'd advise no one listening to any of it.

*EDIT: Hoorah for keeping incredibly old Private Messages. In response to me asking for sure if she made the Hasse Mich background:

RE: Wait, wait, wait..
Sent By: Kamicheetah On: July 13th, 2007 05:30

Yep, Hasse Mich was by me. :> glad you like it.

ah a fellow MGDer, hello

Here's her DeviantArt in case you are interested: http://kamicheetah.deviantart.com/

Also, to further kill your point, a significant portion of PIU: Pro's steps are/were done by Jason Dredd. ITG's steps were done by Foy and the bunch. DDR's steps are done by people you probably don't know. I'm not sure who Darien Kooper actually is or if he is even a real person, but his involvement with steps in any of the above games is highly unlikely.

Also Dalton Kuepker because his music could always use more plugging: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=337890

In conclusion, Plaguefox is watching.