Keyboardsmash Phase I: Legacy Submissions Open

[Izzy]

Feel free to suggest something clever and unique.

[choof]

Originally Posted by Izzy

I still like "High Impact Sexual Violence 1".

Also I don't write simfiles.

then why the fuck are you a judge

[Izzy]

Why are you always up in arms about everything? Do you really believe there is absolutely no value in different perspectives of players? This basically doesn't seem any different at all then what I do for work. If you had the same people who wrote the code always quality checking it then you'd never see it from another view point and would have a harder time understanding how it is viewed from the typical user.

As a long time member of the community I think I am fully qualified to give my opinions on this perspective of simfile judgement. It's not like there won't be other people that also give their opinions as part of a collaborative effort.

[choof]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Why are you always up in arms about everything? Do you really believe there is absolutely no value in different perspectives of players? This basically doesn't seem any different at all then what I do for work. If you had the same people who wrote the code always quality checking it then you'd never see it from another view point and would have a harder time understanding how it is viewed from the typical user.

As a long time member of the community I think I am fully qualified to give my opinions on this perspective of simfile judgement. It's not like there won't be other people that also give their opinions as part of a collaborative effort.

seniority doesn't mean anything, in both stepmania and in the IT world
you haven't actually been an actual part of the community for years dude, the only files I can remember of yours are beautiful synergy (old) and juggernaut (would be considered a really bad joke file if released nowadays)

you may have been fully qualified 6 years ago, but I really couldn't take you seriously as a judge. I hardly take rebirth seriously as a judge rofl

[Coolboyrulez0]

chof can i b judg

[choof]

you're more qualified than izzy is

[Dynam0]

If you guys (Rebirth + Izzy) could just respond to criticism properly and get on with making serious efforts to generate something productive, this pack would've been off the ground on page 3. Being stubborn and standing up for what you believe is fine, but it's going to be difficult making a pack with only 2 people.

Change the opinions of others by making something with substance! A pack banner like Kommisar said, or a preview simfile. It's hard to drum up hype when there isn't even a flavour decided upon, only the organizer's word that he will step up (which the resume doesn't suggest).

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Why are you always up in arms about everything? Do you really believe there is absolutely no value in different perspectives of players? This basically doesn't seem any different at all then what I do for work. If you had the same people who wrote the code always quality checking it then you'd never see it from another view point and would have a harder time understanding how it is viewed from the typical user.

As a long time member of the community I think I am fully qualified to give my opinions on this perspective of simfile judgement.

In what way does being a long-time member of the community qualify you to have relevant opinions in simfile judgement? Keep in mind that a huge portion of the current community consists of long-time members, and it would be absurd to say that they all can competently judge simfiles, particularly those who don't even make simfiles themselves, notwithstanding the existence of a significant gap between making simfiles and actually being able to judge others'.

I don't mean to be instigative or dickish, I legitimately don't follow your reasoning. And writing code isn't at all analogous as it can be more objectively measured and seen as having an end goal which is either accomplished or not, which is nothing like a simfile.

[Dynam0]

Originally Posted by ilikexd

it would be absurd to say that they all can competently judge simfiles, particularly those who don't even make simfiles themselves, notwithstanding the existence of a significant gap between making simfiles and actually being able to judge others'.

This is why I would never consider myself being a judge. My only experience is with knowing how a simfile plays and not necessarily technical aspects, structural flaws, etc. I've been around for almost 10 years though!!

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by ilikexd

I don't mean to be instigative or dickish, I legitimately don't follow your reasoning. And writing code isn't at all analogous as it can be more objectively measured and seen as having an end goal which is either accomplished or not, which is nothing like a simfile.

After creating a criteria of significant points you'd expect out of a simfile you would essentially objectify the process to a certain degree. Other than all of the major points it would come down to the persons personal view on what makes a good simfile regardless of who they are. I don't believe the only worthwhile point of view is that of a person who also makes simfiles.

Really I'm trying to contribute my time and effort where nobody else is even volunteering. If you want to judge instead then be my guest.

[Wafles]

Believe it or not, people who don't make simfiles are more than capable of judging if something is fun or not - though it should absolutely be paired with judges that have a good understanding of making files

Having non simfile artists judge files is a huge plus IMO and I wish I had someone with this mindset helping judge yolomania files.

[Izzy]

Imagine a community of artists who all make abstract art. One of them makes something that everyone else in that community thinks is the best piece of art in the universe. Unfortunately every other person who enjoys art on the planet thinks it is terrible. These are the people that you are trying to show your work to, but only other abstract artists in that specific community ever thought it was good.

[Dynam0]

Good point actually Wafles & Izzy, I agree.

Where pack hype though??

[choof]

Originally Posted by Wafles

Believe it or not, people who don't make simfiles are more than capable of judging if something is fun or not - though it should absolutely be paired with judges that have a good understanding of making files

Having non simfile artists judge files is a huge plus IMO and I wish I had someone with this mindset helping judge yolomania files.

i think you're underestimating how much of a stepmania relic izzy is (and to a lesser extent, rebirth)

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by Izzy

After creating a criteria of significant points you'd expect out of a simfile you would essentially objectify the process to a certain degree. Other than all of the major points it would come down to the persons personal view on what makes a good simfile regardless of who they are. I don't believe the only worthwhile point of view is that of a person who also makes simfiles.

This is what most people do when judging a simfile: refer to the criteria they have established. But no criterion is universal or even hugely common, so doing this does not objectify a judging process. Another issue is actually competently identifying elements in simfiles that correspond to certain criteria and doing so in an unbiased way rather than going off one's impression/"gut-reaction" which can be attested to specific personal tastes either in the nature of the steps, difficulty of the steps, or music.

I'd say being able to competently judge requires a broad and thorough understanding which would be difficult, if not impossible to acquire without first having done a lot of stepping oneself, and there is even more beyond just stepping.

[Dynam0]

Dammit why is everyone being difficult about this? The only thing I had my doubts of in this effort was Rebirth's leadership/motivation. Nathan and other dudes are starting to sound dangerously close to elitist dudes like Kil and other people from ODI days. If someone wants to make a pack then let them. If they want Joe Blow to be a judge, then let them. You don't have to participate at all

Objectivity in StepMania simfiles here we go again

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by Dynam0

Dammit why is everyone being difficult about this? The only thing I had my doubts of in this effort was Rebirth's leadership/motivation. Nathan and other dudes are starting to sound dangerously close to elitist dudes like Kil and other people from ODI days. If someone wants to make a pack then let them. If they want Joe Blow to be a judge, then let them. You don't have to participate at all

Again, I know I'm probably coming off as hostile, but I'm really just fervent to discuss this point. You can use whoever you'd like as a judge and run the pack however you wish, I just question your reasoning.

e: to point something else out: all that I said is much more relevant with the pack name being DCP (for the moment)
I see you're looking to change it anyway.

[choof]

yeah dynamo's right, who cares
it pack won't actually be finished so judges don't matter

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by Dynam0

Dammit why is everyone being difficult about this? The only thing I had my doubts of in this effort was Rebirth's leadership/motivation. Nathan and other dudes are starting to sound dangerously close to elitist dudes like Kil and other people from ODI days. If someone wants to make a pack then let them. If they want Joe Blow to be a judge, then let them. You don't have to participate at all

Objectivity in StepMania simfiles here we go again

Originally Posted by Rebirth0

Rules and shit nobody reads
- Dark Chancellor Packs are about quality. If you're going to step a song, you need to do it in a way where after you're done, you truly believe that your file is so good that nobody should ever have to step that song again.

Also, re-reading the first post, to be fair the pack is already resting on some premise of elitism, so the criticism is entirely warranted.

[Dynam0]

You forgot the last snippet

"I will however go against that rule at times and allow jumpstream/dumpfile submissions. If the chart makes sense and it is fun to play, and if it would actually make the pack better, I'm all for it."