Ingame Song Information - Page 147

**jimerax** · 10-8-2009, 11:26 PM

SC is slower and has sparse jumps compared to EHHS and 4CT.
It's somewhat hard to AAA due to the length, but I think that's all. 75 is fine though.
LW4 is still as hard as, or a bit harder than VB, so 75 fits more IMO.

also I think jumpstream was a bit too overratad as a difficulty factor, so EHHS/4CT will be downrated by 1 as well.

Niala · 10-8-2009, 11:45 PM

True, but I agree about the 75 for SC. LW4 can work for 75, too, if you really want to. It's a bit harder than I'm giving it credit for, I think... EHHS can be downrated, but 4CT is at the right spot. The patterns in the song, especially those silly multicolored areas at the start, and the jumps placed on the 16ths, are really hard, and the stream is not very friendly. When you reach the jumpstream, it gets really hard because of the 24th areas inside the stream. And, keep in mind, this song is really fast. It's a good 82, fits in with Erad and Demon Fire really well.

**foxfire667** · 10-9-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimerax

SC is slower and has sparse jumps compared to EHHS and 4CT.
It's somewhat hard to AAA due to the length, but I think that's all. 75 is fine though.
LW4 is still as hard as, or a bit harder than VB, so 75 fits more IMO.

I don't know, maybe it is just me...but Southern Cross is a bit more difficult for me to get good results on compared to Lawn Wake IV, which I keep getting closer to AAA'ing.

I would though, defiantly say Lawn Wake IV is harder than Vertex beta, pretty much due to the speed factor in my opinion. Also Vertex Beta has a little more leniency as far as the patterns go compared to Lawn Wake IV, so for them to be in the same difficulty range might be a little much, considering.

To be honest, I think if they just kept them as technical "For Masters Only" songs (that originally unlocked oni of AAA'd) but were moved down to "Very Challenging" then that would be fine...because then instead of having to make a whole entire new difficulty setting on the game like people have been suggesting, they could just have the harder "Very Challenging" songs that were moved down from "For Masters Only" unlock Otaku Speedvibe [Oni]. I think that would work out alright.

Kind of like what they did with the song "Famouz," it unlocks Otaku Speedvibe [Heavy], even though it is only labeled as a difficulty 62, not a 65.

**qqwref** · 10-9-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxfire667

To be honest, I think if they just kept them as technical "For Masters Only" songs (that originally unlocked oni of AAA'd) but were moved down to "Very Challenging" then that would be fine...because then instead of having to make a whole entire new difficulty setting on the game like people have been suggesting, they could just have the harder "Very Challenging" songs that were moved down from "For Masters Only" unlock Otaku Speedvibe [Oni]. I think that would work out alright.

None of the low FMOs (or ex-FMOs) unlock Oni anyway - they made the requirement much harder recently. For some reason the players who already have the token think it's too easy (uh, so? you already have it) and that if it's going to be the hardest token to unlock it might as well be continuously made harder so that the token will somehow continue to represent the most elite players despite the fact that 478 people have it already. They're definitely not going to make it easier.

**foxfire667** · 10-9-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qqwref

None of the low FMOs (or ex-FMOs) unlock Oni anyway - they made the requirement much harder recently. For some reason the players who already have the token think it's too easy (uh, so? you already have it) and that if it's going to be the hardest token to unlock it might as well be continuously made harder so that the token will somehow continue to represent the most elite players despite the fact that 478 people have it already. They're definitely not going to make it easier.

I'm sure that isn't the case, they are just probably trying to make themselves look better by saying getting [Oni] is too easy, although...you would still have to be quite amazing at the game to get it.

I guess that makes sense, but now it is going to take me a while to come close to getting it, that is, unless Lawn Wake I allows me to get it...then I might have a shot, as that is probably the most easy For Masters Only song for me at the moment now.

Oh well then, at least for the moment I have Otaku Speedvibe [heavy]!

mhss1992 · 10-9-2009, 05:58 PM

Hey, I just AAA'd SC.
Indeed, it feels much easier than several other VCs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxfire667

To be honest, I think if they just kept them as technical "For Masters Only" songs (that originally unlocked oni of AAA'd) but were moved down to "Very Challenging" then that would be fine...because then instead of having to make a whole entire new difficulty setting on the game like people have been suggesting, they could just have the harder "Very Challenging" songs that were moved down from "For Masters Only" unlock Otaku Speedvibe [Oni]. I think that would work out alright.

Kind of like what they did with the song "Famouz," it unlocks Otaku Speedvibe [Heavy], even though it is only labeled as a difficulty 62, not a 65.

Please, NO. It will banalize [Oni] even further. It is supposed to be really, really hard to get.

**qqwref** · 10-9-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhss1992

Please, NO. It will banalize [Oni] even further. It is supposed to be really, really hard to get.

It is supposed to be a fixed difficulty, to reward anyone who gets good enough to AAA a sufficiently hard song. It is, after all, a skill token, and they don't adjust other skill tokens if they think too many people get them... If more than a hundred people got the token (post-avmiss, after it was adjusted a bit to remove stuff like Vbeta and Symp) by playing songs such as NWE, SC, LW4, K8107, etc I don't see why I should be disadvantaged just because I improved a bit too slowly. The songs themselves have not gotten any easier since avmisses were removed, but even though they were sitting there unlocking Oni for about a year, now they don't. I thought this was unfair when they first changed it, and I still think so now.

mhss1992 · 10-9-2009, 08:02 PM

I understand your point.
I feel the same about Here We Go, I definitely can't FC 99% of the songs right now, since they added really hard FGOs. It used to be much easier.
But... Think about it. If people get [Oni] from these low FMOs/ high VCs, it won't be such a big deal anymore. People won't feel as special as before.
I know you can get better and AAA an FMO which gives the token (some of the newer low FMOs, like Jeanie and Caroline, still give the token), and I'm pretty sure it will be much more satisfactory than getting the token from those easier songs.

**bmah** · 10-9-2009, 08:13 PM

I think it's better to have an absolute drawing line rather than a relative/dynamic one where it's based off a general increase in skill level of players (and that's probably a misinterpreted fact already, since the "players" we're referring to is in fact a minority to the whole database of members).
Obviously, because the token is designated to be a measure of high standings, an absolute drawing line fails to the test of time, for an individual. But if you look at the bigger picture, there's a constant flux of new players that start from scratch - hence, it's better to draw the line on a specific skill level rather than having to constantly adjust it. If you think about it, going with the latter is actually a pretty selfish demeanor on the issue.

mhss1992 · 10-9-2009, 08:33 PM

Okay, then... In this case, [Oni] should remain like it is now, and a new really hard token is added, for a fixed difficulty, like it was suggested before.
I used to agree with qqwref, but I'm not so sure anymore. The whole "YOU'RE GOD" thing doesn't mean much, now.

**qqwref** · 10-9-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhss1992

Okay, then... In this case, [Oni] should remain like it is now, and a new really hard token is added, for a fixed difficulty, like it was suggested before.
I used to agree with qqwref, but I'm not so sure anymore. The whole "YOU'RE GOD" thing doesn't mean much, now.

As I've said before, over 450 people have Oni... so it's definitely NOT a "you're godly at FFR" thing anymore, and hasn't been for quite a while. I think at this point it is more embarrassing to not have the token than it is impressive to have it.

**bmah** · 10-9-2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhss1992

Okay, then... In this case, [Oni] should remain like it is now, and a new really hard token is added, for a fixed difficulty, like it was suggested before.
I used to agree with qqwref, but I'm not so sure anymore. The whole "YOU'RE GOD" thing doesn't mean much, now.

Remember, it's not GODLY to an individual who has surpassed this skill level, but if you take a bird's eye view on the whole scheme of things, you're just one of many other players - and those other players don't consider it the same way...that is, until they've well surpassed this skill level as well. If you want a token that "challenges a player from a novice to a master", that won't happen. It doesn't make sense to have a token that "constantly challenges you" no matter what skill level you're at, since you can't pinpoint a specific objective - you just end up saying, "It's not a challenge for me anymore, so that token doesn't count or give true merit. It will count when I make an objective that's out of my reach, and again it will be invalid once I surpass that skill level." You can go on like that indefinitely, or until you've exhausted yourself from playing any more hardcore. Sure it keeps you playing more and reduces the chances of you getting bored, but it's not idealistic for a token which demands an actual drawing line.

mhss1992 · 10-9-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qqwref

As I've said before, over 450 people have Oni... so it's definitely NOT a "you're godly at FFR" thing anymore, and hasn't been for quite a while. I think at this point it is more embarrassing to not have the token than it is impressive to have it.

You shouldn't feel embarrassed...
Okay, then. Like I've said, leave the token as it is now.
But those FMOs that became VCs should remain VCs IMO, because there are already several other VCs harder than them. So, they're not really making anything "harder" in this aspect, they're just trying to rate the difficulties more precisely.

**Vanilla Mnm** · 10-9-2009, 09:28 PM

Someone might have said this, but I didn't read through all the long posting

(Lazyyyy) and I saw someone say that people won't think Oni is special anymore. I'm pretty sure we've already gotten to that point. No one does think Oni is really that special anymore.

**bmah** · 10-9-2009, 09:30 PM

Umm, yeah Vanilla, you shouldn't have skipped my posts. You completely missed the point.

**awein999** · 10-9-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qqwref

It is supposed to be a fixed difficulty, to reward anyone who gets good enough to AAA a sufficiently hard song. It is, after all, a skill token, and they don't adjust other skill tokens if they think too many people get them... If more than a hundred people got the token (post-avmiss, after it was adjusted a bit to remove stuff like Vbeta and Symp) by playing songs such as NWE, SC, LW4, K8107, etc I don't see why I should be disadvantaged just because I improved a bit too slowly. The songs themselves have not gotten any easier since avmisses were removed, but even though they were sitting there unlocking Oni for about a year, now they don't. I thought this was unfair when they first changed it, and I still think so now.

agreed, just like all tokens this token's requirments should remain the same. If people really want an up to date "you have to be a master to get this" token than make another that only a handful of people can get currently, it's that simple.

**Anakinstepwalker** · 10-9-2009, 09:36 PM

im going with everyone else you're godly doesnt mean much if 450+ people have the token.. need something harder like a guru only AAA then less than 20 members could get it. and we all know who those are. plus most members got oni on none would escape and thats a easy masters thats now VC

**awein999** · 10-9-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anakinstepwalker

im going with everyone else you're godly doesnt mean much if 450+ people have the token.. need something harder like a guru only AAA then less than 20 members could get it. and we all know who those are. plus most members got oni on none would escape and thats a easy masters thats now VC

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...109999&page=24

on an unrelated note WAHHH at dp being officially 13 now. I agree it is but now I can't randomly play the song anymore

**jimerax** · 10-10-2009, 11:53 AM

basically I think token reqs shouldn't be changed.

s-tokens like difficulty 65 AAA or FMO AAA weren't very good ideas actually since it should be always changed when new songs are added, or a big feature change is done (i.e. avemiss fix), or some difficulty tweaks are done.

anyways back to the topic.

**Vanilla Mnm** · 10-10-2009, 12:03 PM

This might be incorrect, but I suppose it's an opinion so it really can't be incorrect. (Or can it..?) Well, this is more of a thought.. I guess.. JUST READ :P
Everyone is saying how "Oh no, everyone is getting better, the song isn't getting easier" well, while that still may be true, that's not why these songs are getting moved down. They're getting moved down because there are a lot more songs that these songs are being compared to. Songs like Southern Cross, Silence, Lawn Wake, etc. were put into this game awhile ago. These songs that are FMOs now are much harder than these other low FMOs, so they're being moved down to VC, not unlocking Oni because they aren't even close to these other FMOs that unlock Oni. Also, now that everyone is getting better is also making people realize what songs are hard in comparison to other songs. Like before for example, I remember playing Southern Cross & a FGO, when I first started. They felt like the same thing because I couldn't read any of the arrows. Now, a lot more people are getting better and we have a lot more opinions/inputs on song difficulties. One last thing, of course, like jimerax said. A lot of these songs were rated based on how hard they were with the avmiss bug, now it's fixed & songs became much easier.

That might've seemed like a lot of nothing, but I'm bad at wording my words/sentences so yeah, it takes a lot for me to get something out. haha

10-8-2009, 11:26 PM	#2921
jimerax ★_★★^★★ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8,185	Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2 SC is slower and has sparse jumps compared to EHHS and 4CT. It's somewhat hard to AAA due to the length, but I think that's all. 75 is fine though. LW4 is still as hard as, or a bit harder than VB, so 75 fits more IMO. also I think jumpstream was a bit too overratad as a difficulty factor, so EHHS/4CT will be downrated by 1 as well.

10-8-2009, 11:45 PM	#2922
Niala (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Fredericton Age: 33 Posts: 1,696	Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2 True, but I agree about the 75 for SC. LW4 can work for 75, too, if you really want to. It's a bit harder than I'm giving it credit for, I think... EHHS can be downrated, but 4CT is at the right spot. The patterns in the song, especially those silly multicolored areas at the start, and the jumps placed on the 16ths, are really hard, and the stream is not very friendly. When you reach the jumpstream, it gets really hard because of the 24th areas inside the stream. And, keep in mind, this song is really fast. It's a good 82, fits in with Erad and Demon Fire really well.

10-9-2009, 08:02 PM	#2928
mhss1992 FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 788	Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2 I understand your point. I feel the same about Here We Go, I definitely can't FC 99% of the songs right now, since they added really hard FGOs. It used to be much easier. But... Think about it. If people get [Oni] from these low FMOs/ high VCs, it won't be such a big deal anymore. People won't feel as special as before. I know you can get better and AAA an FMO which gives the token (some of the newer low FMOs, like Jeanie and Caroline, still give the token), and I'm pretty sure it will be much more satisfactory than getting the token from those easier songs. __________________ jnbidevniuhyb scores: Nomina Nuda Tenemus 1-0-0-0, Anti-Ares 1-0-0-0 Best AAA: Frictional Nevada (Done while FFR was out, so it doesn't show in my level stats) Resting. I might restart playing FFR seriously someday.

10-9-2009, 08:13 PM	#2929
bmah shots FIRED Global Moderator, User Support, Judge Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB Age: 35 Posts: 8,448	Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2 I think it's better to have an absolute drawing line rather than a relative/dynamic one where it's based off a general increase in skill level of players (and that's probably a misinterpreted fact already, since the "players" we're referring to is in fact a minority to the whole database of members). Obviously, because the token is designated to be a measure of high standings, an absolute drawing line fails to the test of time, for an individual. But if you look at the bigger picture, there's a constant flux of new players that start from scratch - hence, it's better to draw the line on a specific skill level rather than having to constantly adjust it. If you think about it, going with the latter is actually a pretty selfish demeanor on the issue. Last edited by bmah; 10-9-2009 at 08:24 PM..

10-9-2009, 08:33 PM	#2930
mhss1992 FFR Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 788	Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2 Okay, then... In this case, [Oni] should remain like it is now, and a new really hard token is added, for a fixed difficulty, like it was suggested before. I used to agree with qqwref, but I'm not so sure anymore. The whole "YOU'RE GOD" thing doesn't mean much, now. __________________ jnbidevniuhyb scores: Nomina Nuda Tenemus 1-0-0-0, Anti-Ares 1-0-0-0 Best AAA: Frictional Nevada (Done while FFR was out, so it doesn't show in my level stats) Resting. I might restart playing FFR seriously someday.

10-9-2009, 09:28 PM	#2934
Vanilla Mnm cavs Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Saratoga, New York Posts: 3,258	Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2 Someone might have said this, but I didn't read through all the long posting (Lazyyyy) and I saw someone say that people won't think Oni is special anymore. I'm pretty sure we've already gotten to that point. No one does think Oni is really that special anymore.

10-9-2009, 09:30 PM	#2935
bmah shots FIRED Global Moderator, User Support, Judge Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB Age: 35 Posts: 8,448	Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2 Umm, yeah Vanilla, you shouldn't have skipped my posts. You completely missed the point.

10-10-2009, 11:53 AM	#2939
jimerax ★_★★^★★ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tokyo Posts: 8,185	Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2 basically I think token reqs shouldn't be changed. s-tokens like difficulty 65 AAA or FMO AAA weren't very good ideas actually since it should be always changed when new songs are added, or a big feature change is done (i.e. avemiss fix), or some difficulty tweaks are done. anyways back to the topic.

10-10-2009, 12:03 PM	#2940
Vanilla Mnm cavs Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Saratoga, New York Posts: 3,258	Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2 This might be incorrect, but I suppose it's an opinion so it really can't be incorrect. (Or can it..?) Well, this is more of a thought.. I guess.. JUST READ :P Everyone is saying how "Oh no, everyone is getting better, the song isn't getting easier" well, while that still may be true, that's not why these songs are getting moved down. They're getting moved down because there are a lot more songs that these songs are being compared to. Songs like Southern Cross, Silence, Lawn Wake, etc. were put into this game awhile ago. These songs that are FMOs now are much harder than these other low FMOs, so they're being moved down to VC, not unlocking Oni because they aren't even close to these other FMOs that unlock Oni. Also, now that everyone is getting better is also making people realize what songs are hard in comparison to other songs. Like before for example, I remember playing Southern Cross & a FGO, when I first started. They felt like the same thing because I couldn't read any of the arrows. Now, a lot more people are getting better and we have a lot more opinions/inputs on song difficulties. One last thing, of course, like jimerax said. A lot of these songs were rated based on how hard they were with the avmiss bug, now it's fixed & songs became much easier. That might've seemed like a lot of nothing, but I'm bad at wording my words/sentences so yeah, it takes a lot for me to get something out. haha

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