Two Haikus Written in Linear Algebra Class

[dore]

here's a haiku by Paul Beatty:

the full May moon,
Christopher Walken's forehead
finally has competition

[MrRubix]

That is the fluffiest explanation ever for making a Haiku NOT a Haiku -- and it's wrong, lol. The 5-7-5 syllabic structure is as close as you're going to get in English to a 5-7-5 "on" structure in Japanese. Trying to manipulate it to something else is really no longer making it a Haiku. Saying "there's no direct conversion/translation" between the two is true because we don't consider things like "n" to be a separate sound, but there's absolutely no justification as to why you'd have something longer or shorter in English. Like Dev said, it's kinda butchering the original spirit of what makes a Haiku a Haiku.

To me it's just another example of Western influence taking a long-standing Japanese concept and butchering it, ungh. 5-7-5's there for a reason (poetically speaking -- its length and symmetry are what give it its sound, hence its derivation from "on"s -- your previous "haiku," for instance, does not have this symmetry at all, even in English), and changing it to something different still makes it a poem, granted -- perhaps an altered form, but it is not a Haiku.

"Most writers of literary haiku in English use about ten to fourteen syllables, with no formal pattern."
To me, this is just lazy, lol. It'd be like writing a limerick that doesn't follow the rhyme scheme and calling it a limerick.


Anyways just my opinion.

[phe0nixblade]

dore:
accept my friend request on xbox live ya bitch

[dore]

on =/= syllable

Japanese haikus are strict in the 5-7-5 format, but you can't convert 5 ons into 5 syllables. It's not the same thing. An English haiku is not a Japanese haiku, so why would you keep the same strict requirements? It's like comparing horse racing to midget racing. Sure, in both you're competing to be the fastest by going around in circles on a dirt track. But they're two different formats which you can compare in many ways but still aren't the same thing. You wouldn't make an auto racer use a saddle just because horse racing came first and they need to use a saddle.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by dore

on =/= syllable

Japanese haikus are strict in the 5-7-5 format, but you can't convert 5 ons into 5 syllables. It's not the same thing. An English haiku is not a Japanese haiku, so why would you keep the same strict requirements? It's like comparing horse racing to midget racing. Sure, in both you're competing to be the fastest by going around in circles on a dirt track. But they're two different formats which you can compare in many ways but still aren't the same thing. You wouldn't make an auto racer use a saddle just because horse racing came first and they need to use a saddle.

Worst analogy ever btw, that's a completely different dynamic. What's the point in a race? To finish first. Both types of races accomplish this thing, and there's no lock on the format of a race as long as the original functions are present (which they are). However, there is a lock on the format of the haiku and altering its initial spirit and structure does NOT retain the original functions (symmetry and sound).

"Ons" *are* Japanese syllables (and even when spoken, they sound JUST like English syllables -- again, go listen to any Japanese song). English syllables are English syllables. Therefore in Japanese 5-7-5 "ons" are best converted to 5-7-5 English syllables. Being lazy and not understanding how Japanese works by screwing around with English haiku structures is not making a haiku. It's just being lazy and ignorant of why Japanese haikus are the way they are in the first place.



DOMINATED, next!

[GG_Guru]

Japanese Haikus = DOMINATED

Sincerely Yours,

MrRubix

[who_cares973]

that doesnt make sense
holy **** guru you twit
Ethiopian

[foilman8805]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

that doesnt even make sense
holy **** guru you are dumb
Ethiopian

you tried

[funmonkey54]

Originally Posted by dore

Because wikipedia said so...

nuf sed

[who_cares973]

oopss

[UserNameGoesHere]

Since this was the first thread from the main page, it was listed as "Two Haikus Written in Linear..." and my first thought was "Two Haikus Written in Linear B" which would have been awesome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_B

[dore]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

What's the point in a race? To finish first. Both types of races accomplish this thing, and there's no lock on the format of a race as long as the original functions are present (which they are). However, there is a lock on the format of the haiku and altering its initial spirit and structure does NOT retain the original functions (symmetry and sound).

What's the point of a poem? To express something. Both types of poems accomplish this thing, and there's no lock on the format of a poem as long as the original functions are present (which they are).

English haikus =/= traditional Japanese haikus, no matter what you say. If that hurts your Japanese feelings, then sorry, but it's the truth. You will almost never see a serious English poet stick with only 5-7-5 for his haikus. You can say that you don't like the way English haikus are different, because that's your opinion, but the different format has been around for longer than you and there's nothing you can do about that.

Originally Posted by funmonkey54

nuf sed

also hey look a 3 second search agreed with what I was saying anyway, so I definitely based my entire argument off wiki

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by dore

What's the point of a poem? To express something. Both types of poems accomplish this thing, and there's no lock on the format of a poem as long as the original functions are present (which they are).

English haikus =/= traditional Japanese haikus, no matter what you say. If that hurts your Japanese feelings, then sorry, but it's the truth. You will almost never see a serious English poet stick with only 5-7-5 for his haikus. You can say that you don't like the way English haikus are different, because that's your opinion, but the different format has been around for longer than you and there's nothing you can do about that.



also hey look a 3 second search agreed with what I was saying anyway, so I definitely based my entire argument off wiki

Sure, a poem can express something in any form, but changing a haiku's basic structure/intention/spirit no longer makes it a Haiku. Like Dev said, it's like changing iambic pentameter and still calling it by the same name. If you're changing the 5-7-5 structure, it's no longer a Haiku.

Anyways if you actually Googled this you'd realize there's a great deal of debate over the subject -- you'll find plenty of Japanese people who find the concept of a non-5-7-5 Haiku to be a little bit silly. Again, if you know how the language works, you'll understand why it's nonsense to make a non-5-7-5 syllabic poem in English and still call it a Haiku. Those who argue otherwise are just bastardizing the haiku's form without really understanding why it was made that way in the first place, as I said.

Saying Japanese =/= English is true, but that doesn't mean haikus can't be treated properly across languages, as it's a flimsy argument otherwise. If you want to make a non-5-7-5 poem, that's fine, but it isn't a haiku anymore.

[GG_Guru]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

that doesnt make sense
holy **** guru you twit
Ethiopian

Psssst! Hey...

who cares?

[dore]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

Saying Japanese =/= English is true, but that doesn't mean haikus can't be treated properly across languages, as it's a flimsy argument otherwise. If you want to make a non-5-7-5 poem, that's fine, but it isn't a haiku anymore.

eh I guess, but generally non-5-7-5 poems are still considered haikus in English, so whatever

[MrRubix]

Americans tend to be stupid when it comes to cultural translation and adaptation

[Ghakimx]

I have this gut feeling Rubix is going to dominate Japan.

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by GG_Guru

Psssst! Hey...

who cares?

good 1 Ethiopia XD

Originally Posted by MrRubix

Americans tend to be stupid when it comes to cultural translation and adaptation

Americanization!

[GG_Guru]

Hahaha yeah..

I love fat people.

[MalReynolds]

Guru, I'm going to start deleting your posts in this thread if you don't stop acting retarded.