Ingame Song Information

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by bmah

I think the lower-level songs should be closely scrutinized as well. Most people will forget about them once they're AAAed.

I agree. Unfortunately, upper-level players generally have no feel for where lower-level songs can be placed, so we can't really help. Since the difficulty of a song should be determined by how hard it is to people who play songs around that level, it'd be kind of silly for people with FMO AAAs to decide what's a 5 and what's a 6.

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

Apparently you missed the point that I was making. The point was everyone wants to complain but no one wants to step up and fix it.

On the contrary - I see people stepping up and fixing it all the time. I regularly see lists of exactly where someone would place the higher songs, and pretty recently a few people offered to put all the songs in the game into the 1-15 framework. The problem is that people on staff never agree to the fixes or implement them, so nothing goes anywhere and then it looks like nobody is putting in any effort to help.

And I should point out that people don't make complaints about difficulties because they want to be jerks and denigrate the hard work of others. They make complaints because they think the system would be better with a certain change.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by qqwref

On the contrary - I see people stepping up and fixing it all the time. I regularly see lists of exactly where someone would place the higher songs, and pretty recently a few people offered to put all the songs in the game into the 1-15 framework. The problem is that people on staff never agree to the fixes or implement them, so nothing goes anywhere and then it looks like nobody is putting in any effort to help.

And I should point out that people don't make complaints about difficulties because they want to be jerks and denigrate the hard work of others. They make complaints because they think the system would be better with a certain change.

bold area: typical assumptions, and borderline disrespectful

people step up and fix things in part, and say they'll do something but never take the initiative to actually show something

kudos to OWA and Kayla for taking an initiative, and making it known - yet, for some reason, it's necessary for people to complain about lists that are OBVIOUSLY tentative in nature

people offered to go through 1-15 scaling, but no one ever took the initiative to show that they were willing to do the entire job. no one has agreed on that being an efficient scale, anyway. with nearly 950 public songs, a 1-15 scale won't solve any problems with overlapping in difficulty, but no one seems to realize that. you need a much more extensive scale to make a dent in contested difficulties; it's as simple as that

EDIT: and staff isn't going to agree to half-assed changes to the game; if something is going to get done, it needs to be done in full so that the concept can be seen in its entirety - not leave it partially complete only for it to never get done

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

bold area: typical assumptions, and borderline disrespectful

It's not a random assumption, it's observations about things that have happened in the past.

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

people offered to go through 1-15 scaling, but no one ever took the initiative to show that they were willing to do the entire job.

At least one person of the group of 3-4 did all their songs immediately, and I said I was going to do mine as soon as an admin said they'd use the system. That offer still stands (it'll take less than a day, but I'm not gonna do it just for fun), but I haven't yet seen anyone say they will implement the system.

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

with nearly 950 public songs, a 1-15 scale won't solve any problems with overlapping in difficulty, but no one seems to realize that. you need a much more extensive scale to make a dent in contested difficulties; it's as simple as that

1-15 just helps fix the gigantic gaps inside difficulties from 10 to 12. It's not really intended to be a totally complete and perfect system like the 1-99 is, and there are definitely still going to be big gaps in each difficulty.

[psychoangel691]

I guess you guys now know how staff feels when you generalize us and say we do nothing for the site, or that we're bad. Obviously I didn't literally mean everyone on the site does nothing. It was a post against those users that always have something nasty to say to those who are trying to help. But then they don't want to present a better solution to the problem.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by qqwref

It's not a random assumption, it's observations about things that have happened in the past.

At least one person of the group of 3-4 did all their songs immediately, and I said I was going to do mine as soon as an admin said they'd use the system. That offer still stands (it'll take less than a day, but I'm not gonna do it just for fun), but I haven't yet seen anyone say they will implement the system.

1-15 just helps fix the gigantic gaps inside difficulties from 10 to 12. It's not really intended to be a totally complete and perfect system like the 1-99 is, and there are definitely still going to be big gaps in each difficulty.

1-15 doesn't fix the gap between 10-12 since you're obviously still able to classify songs has low/mid/high within each level, so at 15 points, you're still going to have borderline contests about certain songs

and it's as I said before: no one is willing to implement something half-assed. congrats, you spent all of the time rearranging things with nobody on staff to look at it, because there are much more important things to do than re-rate files only for a scale to be redone at some point later down the line

honestly, FFR should just implement some sort of radar similar to SM that bases stream/density/rigidity (framer counts added together) off of the highest values in the game and drop the damn difficulty scale altogether, since no one will ever agree on anything

in the meantime - people who are working on a scale that's out of 50/100 points should keep going because it's a far stronger scale than 1-12/1-15

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

1-15 doesn't fix the gap between 10-12 since you're obviously still able to classify songs has low/mid/high within each level, so at 15 points, you're still going to have borderline contests about certain songs

Actually, the idea seems to fix a lot of the problems in the higher levels, without totally changing the idea of the big difficulties. There are always going to be borderline songs, but opening up the higher difficulties a bit lets you have more of a feel of what is VC, what is FMO, etc. because each difficulty is a little smaller and more focused.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Actually, the idea seems to fix a lot of the problems in the higher levels, without totally changing the idea of the big difficulties. There are always going to be borderline songs, but opening up the higher difficulties a bit lets you have more of a feel of what is VC, what is FMO, etc. because each difficulty is a little smaller and more focused.

fixing songs in the higher areas of one level and putting them in another is not the right way to fix borderline files with a minor scale expansion like this.

a two point addition to the scale isn't going to solve anything because you'll still have files in the FGO/FSO range that are VASTLY different in difficulty that will end up within the same range.

the FGO area can easily be subdivided into seven difficulties on its own (and it has been by two different people), and even then, there's still issues with files being fairly far away within a single level. just let people work on the 1-100 point scale; the difficulty scale has needed a change for a while and if it's going to be changed, it might as well be changed in a way that won't need to be largely changed in structure again

EDIT: there are borderlines in other areas too, so this scale wouldn't be just to fix higher files, it would fix the entire thing

[One Winged Angel]

........well I'm just not gonna share my thoughts now because I might get banned~

p.s. the addendum to this post would've been my temp VC list but I'm gonna touch it up a little bit before posting anything

[LJRoX]

How the hell do you guys get banned for arguing about songs and shit?

[Netjet!]

Originally Posted by LJRoX

How the hell do you guys get banned for arguing about songs and shit?

Very carefully.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

lol you can get banned now for being on topic?

[00Razor00]

song difficulties r srs bsns

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

78

Novo Mundo
Heavenly Spores
Going On Spring Wind
Epidermis
Choprite
Puzzle
Arrogant Cobbler


79

Midnight Dragon
Strangeprogram
Grocery Escape Plan
Battle Theme #37
JULIAN
Largiloquent Dithyramb
Lawn Wake I
Melonman’s OP
Black Key Etude
Jeanie and Caroline
Rottel-da-station


80

Summer Time Perfume
Blue-Violet
Op.10 No.9
Kanon Medley ~Metal Wings~
Exciting Hyper Highspeed Star
Church Bells
Minute Waltz v2
Radio Heads
Disconnected Hardkore
Variations 2
Thrash
I’m Sick of Uprock


81

Nanairopanda v2
Kyrie
PianoCore
Clockwork
INFINITY Hyperspace
Marisa Stole The Precious Thing
Dance and Zeal
300
Hajnal
Club
JULIA
Scythe of 13
The Divine Suicide of K [Heavy]


82

Distorted God
Gaussian Blur
Starwolf
Floating Hour
Setsujou! Hyakka Ryouran!
Cinnamon Roll
BB Evolution


83

Master Maid
Perfect Cherry Storm
Famicom Selecta
Document 13b
Dendrite v2
AIM Anthem
Brandish Headless
Night and Day
Final Fantasy Last Battle Festival


84

Flight of the Bumblebee
Over the Ocean
RunnyMorning (SGX Mix)
Otaku Speedvibe [Oni]
Caprice
Piano Etude (Demon Fire)
Overdrive
Aim Burst
Mario Minor
Blindfolds Aside
Staring at my Spaceship

85

Dead and Direct
3020
4 Chord Touhou
Of course you Need and…NEED ME
Bloodmeat [Heavy]
bmv.578
Yorukumoryuu Yamikaze
Hellhounds On My Trail
World Tour 2004


86

Big Blue
October
Momentary Life
Silly Symphony
BB Revenge
Flesvelka


87

Toxiferous Dystopia
Skeletor
Eradication
Ripoff
Piano Concerto 1 ‘ANTI-ARES’ (For Kirby)
Piano Etude (Gymnastics)
He’s A Radical Rat

I feel as if OP 10 and Grocey should switch places on the difficulty scale here. OP10 is simple jumpstream with a difficulty jack, while GEP is a lot harder than that due to the hands and jack usage.

I also feel AIM and club should be in the same difficulty section, because they're almost the same thing, the difference is that club is honestly a little easier being that the jumps are way more consistent.

I also agree on bumping up Heavenly spores, though it's newer so I don't remember it as well as the others <.< >.>

Also assuming that the list of each difficulty is based off how hard hard the song is, Choprite should be right under Novo imo. Length might be there but tbh it's just a 4 minute long vc.

Just a few little thoughts. Sorry it's kinda late.

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

bold area: typical assumptions, and borderline disrespectful

people step up and fix things in part, and say they'll do something but never take the initiative to actually show something

kudos to OWA and Kayla for taking an initiative, and making it known - yet, for some reason, it's necessary for people to complain about lists that are OBVIOUSLY tentative in nature

people offered to go through 1-15 scaling, but no one ever took the initiative to show that they were willing to do the entire job. no one has agreed on that being an efficient scale, anyway. with nearly 950 public songs, a 1-15 scale won't solve any problems with overlapping in difficulty, but no one seems to realize that. you need a much more extensive scale to make a dent in contested difficulties; it's as simple as that

EDIT: and staff isn't going to agree to half-assed changes to the game; if something is going to get done, it needs to be done in full so that the concept can be seen in its entirety - not leave it partially complete only for it to never get done

I've been willing and asking to do the whole job for a damn long time, it's just no one seems to want to trust me with the task, I guess they think I'm really bias in my ratings, I try to be as objective as possible, but everyone has their own opinions and ratings. But yeah, if no one has the time to do the whole thing, I always have the time. Hell, I have the time to play every song in the game again, and the lower levels twice if necessary to determine difficulties. OWA seems to be doing a good job though, we'd just have to discuss the lists he makes. Also OWA, never heard your exact opinions on my list placements, I made one for both FGO and FMO. 11Eleven may be too high, I actually don't remember it well, I just remember two really stupid walls and some one handed jump trills.

[justin_ator]

One handed jump trills?

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by justin_ator

One handed jump trills?

14 23 jumptrills

@PlanB, I go to college and take 19 credits, I have 5 hours of class a day, everyday except Friday. I only need around 4-5 hours of sleep and I'm fine, it's how I am. That's 10 hours of a 24 hour day, I devote 3 hours to studying a day, that leaves me with 9 hours of free time. About 4-5 of those is hanging with friends, and 5 are gaming. 5 hours a day of gaming, with time to study and hangout with friends. I don't currently need a job, so I have no desire to give up my free time for one. 9 hours of free time is plenty to do stuff.

[justin_ator]

Ah, I see now what you were talking about. Thanks for clarifying.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by stavie33

I've been willing and asking to do the whole job for a damn long time, it's just no one seems to want to trust me with the task, I guess they think I'm really bias in my ratings, I try to be as objective as possible, but everyone has their own opinions and ratings. But yeah, if no one has the time to do the whole thing, I always have the time. Hell, I have the time to play every song in the game again, and the lower levels twice if necessary to determine difficulties. OWA seems to be doing a good job though, we'd just have to discuss the lists he makes. Also OWA, never heard your exact opinions on my list placements, I made one for both FGO and FMO. 11Eleven may be too high, I actually don't remember it well, I just remember two really stupid walls and some one handed jump trills.

I know how you feel, since I've been feeling the same way before being like "hey let's make an isolation engine". If you got ideas instead of waiting for staff permission just try to actually really do it and if you can't do it, try to find information/people to help you do so. Even if you have the best ideas in the world, you're more likely to get attention if we can see a thread with how your system works and everything in details than just a post here. There's a lot of people who mentioned really good ideas/concepts etc. They just had no one to back them up to make something interesting that staff can look at and implement fairly quickly without having to involve tons of thinking of how everything is supposed to be. I mean if we start seeing tons of suggestion threads with more information maybe things will get more interesting.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Even if you have the best ideas in the world, you're more likely to get attention if we can see a thread with how your system works and everything in details than just a post here. There's a lot of people who mentioned really good ideas/concepts etc. They just hadn't no one to back them up to make something interesting that staff can look at and implement fairly quickly without having to involve tons of thinking of how everything is supposed to be.

This is something I've been trying to tell people lately. It's going to get people's attention better if you have a thought out plan. Staff can't keep up with every single little suggestion and complaint, especially when it always seems to turn into a war with the community making it even harder to see the suggestions made. Even PM it to a staff member so you know it's seen.

[jimerax]

reviewed again and Lives Without Meaning felt like 9, and Until Tomorrow is borderline 4/5. imo.