TWG CLXI - Egregious Miscalculations GAME THREAD

[dadcop2]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I can confirm dadcop2 is not faking his exam.

#yey

I've been there. ;-;

Well, gl with your exam. Just make sure you have your 10 posts requirement at least.

EOD is tomorrow though?

i already took it and it was hard as fuck. the professor realized how hard it was and decided to cut it short by having us do 2 of the 3 problems of our choosing, but i started with the hardest one lmao. electronics is a shitshow and i'm glad i'm out of it. i'm also glad i'm not an EE. i can pass the class with a C+ even if i got a 0 on the exam so i'm all set.

i see everyone posting shitty reasoning for me being a wolf so if u wanna ask me shit go ahead or at least make up better reasons thx

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by dadcop2

EOD is tomorrow though?

i already took it and it was hard as fuck. the professor realized how hard it was and decided to cut it short by having us do 2 of the 3 problems of our choosing, but i started with the hardest one lmao. electronics is a shitshow and i'm glad i'm out of it. i'm also glad i'm not an EE. i can pass the class with a C+ even if i got a 0 on the exam so i'm all set.

i see everyone posting shitty reasoning for me being a wolf so if u wanna ask me shit go ahead or at least make up better reasons thx

Well, I spent most of this phase talking about AA/ShadoWolfe. That could give you something to talk about.

Objectively speaking, DFR is more likely to get voted than you for me.

The only reason why you kept getting on that table is because ShadoWolfe/MML themselves have so much productive content that it's hard to tell if there's really something going on or not with them.

This is pretty awkward because for me that means you're either a wolf or someone in MML/ShadoWolfe somehow bs'd everyone and stayed utr the entire game while posting a ton.

It makes me want to believe there's at least a wolf in you/DFR and/or (1 or 0) in MML/ShadoWolfe.

[danceflashrevo]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

That's pretty wolfy of you to not even reevaluate or say why you think so.
I asked you to comment my posts yesterday.
The reason is because I want to evaluate you as well.

I did reevaluate. I've been away all day, I'd rather go over your case on shado aa on my computer and not phone. I'll compile why I think you're town and respond to the case when I get back. Don't jump to conclusions.

I'm most likely voting between you and dadcop2 I intended to vote you yesterday because you kept pushing Storn and made me look bad by asking me why I think Storn is town.
I softed, but you went like "but im dumb, I can't figure this out" and that just made me go "ugh, you're either not intending to try or you simply didn't see it at all".
Basically, I don't see you doing much right now and it's making me come to the conclusion that "it's because you're a wolf".

Really? I tried really hard to understand what you were saying and I didn't put pi r^2 together to make a circle. You could've easily made up some bullshit about another reason why you thought he was town and let him out himself as he deemed appropriate.


I am not home yet.

[dadcop2]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

The only reason why you kept getting on that table is because ShadoWolfe/MML themselves have so much productive content that it's hard to tell if there's really something going on or not with them.

i mean you can be productive and still be a wolf. productivity isn't entirely alignment indicative

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by dadcop2

i mean you can be productive and still be a wolf. productivity isn't entirely alignment indicative

I agree that productivity itself is not alignment indicative, but it can lead to content that can make the other players figure out alignments.

[dadcop2]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I agree that productivity itself is not alignment indicative, but it can lead to content that can make the other players figure out alignments.

yeah thats true, but honestly how much of it is really content? i went back to the last couple pages after this day started and ctrl+f'd my name. apart from a couple things from mml mentioning how i was stuck on storn being ic all day(i wasn't i had literally like 2 posts about that), and how he didn't like me leaving the thread when nobody else posted anything and i had to go do shit, all posts that included me were statements along the lines of "dadcop is scum", or "dadcop should be lynched". uh yeah, real detailed stuff there man. great content keep it up.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by dadcop2

yeah thats true, but honestly how much of it is really content? i went back to the last couple pages after this day started and ctrl+f'd my name.

It's content for trying to solve other players that aren't you.
There's 2 ways to look at this imo.

You figure out top scums and vote them.
You figure out who is town and you try to figure out why their reads are different than you and why.

The former is what everyone is expecting early game. The latter is what you should try to do to optimize your chances of getting a hit in endgame.

Originally Posted by dadcop2

apart from a couple things from mml mentioning how i was stuck on storn being ic all day(i wasn't i had literally like 2 posts about that), and how he didn't like me leaving the thread when nobody else posted anything and i had to go do shit, all posts that included me were statements along the lines of "dadcop is scum", or "dadcop should be lynched". uh yeah, real detailed stuff there man. great content keep it up.

Well, you're supposed to explain why they're wrong (if they are) and figure out who are the remaining 2 wolves. Not doing so will eventually make you look like a suspect no matter what.

This is happening because it's easy to post nothing as a wolf.

[dadcop2]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Well, you're supposed to explain why they're wrong (if they are) and figure out who are the remaining 2 wolves. Not doing so will eventually make you look like a suspect no matter what.

This is happening because it's easy to post nothing as a wolf.

l o l there's a pretty serious double standard here. as soon as i defend myself, someone will call me out on being too defensive and therefore a wolf

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by dadcop2

l o l there's a pretty serious double standard here. as soon as i defend myself, someone will call me out on being too defensive and therefore a wolf

Yeah, but the person calling you out may get targeted for calling you out in the first place if he doesn't have a good reason to do so.

It works both ways.

[dadcop2]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Yeah, but the person calling you out may get targeted for calling you out in the first place if he doesn't have a good reason to do so.

It works both ways.

even so, as i pointed out before, i have no real §reasons§ to debunk. people's posts about me today can pretty much be boiled down to "DADCOP BAD !!"

dfr is looking weird. does that last reads list you posted (#2346) include a town claim? why? and shado is town? why?

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

There's 0 way wolf haku posts that. I town read haku all game, I null him because it's f5 and I need to reevaluate everyone, he's back at town. Fuck me if he's a wolf.

I completely disagree.

He's effortposted harder than that as wolf before.
Yeah, it's a long post but he mainly addresses one question I asked, and it was an easy one about giving me an example for something he said.

Also I'm rethinking dadcop being scum. I re-read his ISO from the perspective of him being town and it made as much sense as the other way, tone-wise. I still don't like his playstyle or attitude, but those are personal things and aren't alignment-indicative. I'm really starting to think he could be a lazy-town who just doesn't care much about the game anymore and is an easy mislynch, so I feel much more confident about Haku.

Haku, I'm gonna follow this post with one quoting the more important questions I want answered, so please stick around.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by dadcop2

l o l there's a pretty serious double standard here. as soon as i defend myself, someone will call me out on being too defensive and therefore a wolf

Wait when did this happen?

I take back what I just said about you if this is really the reason you haven't defended yourself. Nobody's going to call you too defensive. You're most likely the lynch tonight, so defend yourself if you can.

[dadcop2]

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

this is.... overly defensive

yeah, never happened before right?

give me an actual attack to defend and i will

[ShadoWolfe]

Things that make me think Haku is a wolf (things in "" are older questions that he didn't respond to):

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I think this is literally AA trying to signal me that he's a wolf believing I could be wolf myself.

"If you thought he was a wolf trying to signal you, why didn't you bring it up when it happened?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Look, I haven't even told you how laughably bad dadcop2/DFR looks next to your slot.
I just wanted to give you an idea of how I've been seeing things.
I wanted to show you that I tried to do something.
If it's bad, just tell me why.

AA has been frustrating to properly read for me all game and I just wanted to see how you approach all of this.

"Why go to all that work to show me that you've tried to do something? You made a push, that should be because you think I'm scummy, not because you want to prove to me that you're town because you're doing work...
What kind of intention is that?"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Rereading myself made me realize how they're not really as incriminating as I thought it would be.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I knew I posted garbage in the first place, I was mostly trying to reaction test you more than anything because you're not AA himself.

The parts I've bolded and underlined in your quotes are all the different reasons you've given for your push

You say you pushed me because you just wanted to give me an idea of how you've been seeing things.
You say you pushed me because you wanted to show me that you tried to do something (wot??)
You say you pushed me because AA has been frustrating to read and you wanted to see how I approach it.
You say you pushed me because you thought it was incriminating. (you say this when you start to realize the push isn't going to stick)
You say you pushed me because you were trying to reaction test me. (you say this after abandoning the push)

???????????????
That's alot of different reasons for one push, Haku. What's the truth here?

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Well, you're supposed to explain why they're wrong (if they are) and figure out who are the remaining 2 wolves. Not doing so will eventually make you look like a suspect no matter what.

This is happening because it's easy to post nothing as a wolf.

Is this why you actually tried to push me? You knew you couldn't just post nothing, and knew you'd get called out for picking easy lynches if you just picked dadcop2 and DFR, but you knew you had to "try to figure out who the remaining 2 wolves are", so did you push me because you thought I was easier than MML?
Were you thinking I'd be an easy mislynch because MML and dad had already voted me last phase?

..are you a woof?

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Things that make me think Haku is a wolf (things in "" are older questions that he didn't respond to):



"If you thought he was a wolf trying to signal you, why didn't you bring it up when it happened?"

I noticed this after Day 1 was over, not when I posted this. I've reread the thread at each phase. I kept pushing him for the smallest things I could find.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

"Why go to all that work to show me that you've tried to do something? You made a push, that should be because you think I'm scummy, not because you want to prove to me that you're town because you're doing work...
What kind of intention is that?"

No one has seriously addressed my alignment this phase and I figured I had to create content to give you something to look at. I am trying to help you read me.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

The parts I've bolded and underlined in your quotes are all the different reasons you've given for your push

You say you pushed me because you just wanted to give me an idea of how you've been seeing things.
You say you pushed me because you wanted to show me that you tried to do something (wot??)
You say you pushed me because AA has been frustrating to read and you wanted to see how I approach it.
You say you pushed me because you thought it was incriminating. (you say this when you start to realize the push isn't going to stick)
You say you pushed me because you were trying to reaction test me. (you say this after abandoning the push)

???????????????
That's alot of different reasons for one push, Haku. What's the truth here?

I really thought AA's slot was a wolf from the beginning and I changed my mind. These posts are about me explaining why I changed my mind.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Is this why you actually tried to push me? You knew you couldn't just post nothing, and knew you'd get called out for picking easy lynches if you just picked dadcop2 and DFR, but you knew you had to "try to figure out who the remaining 2 wolves are", so did you push me because you thought I was easier than MML?

How am I pushing you if my current lynch pool is DFR/dadcop2 ?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Were you thinking I'd be an easy mislynch because MML and dad had already voted me last phase?

..are you a woof?

Not this time.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by dadcop2

yeah, never happened before right?

give me an actual attack to defend and i will

Okay. You're being really complacent, and a review of your posts throughout the game (ISO, accessible through clicking the # of posts next to a thread, then clicking the #postcount of the relevant player, here) shows that you haven't been scumhunting basically all game.

When you are here, you say people can ask you questions, but you don't have any for others. You've responded to a lot of jokeposts, and have made a bunch of them yourself, but haven't really pushed or prodded anyone or made a visible effort to solve this game at all.

In the third day phase (D2), you said you didn't have an opinion on DFR because he hadn't done anything scummy or anything towny. You also said you didn't want to post reads because your list was mostly nulls at that point.

Basically, you pop in here and there, occasionally leaving your thoughts on something that's going on, but are content/complacent in leaving the game to others. That's usually a scumtell (exactly like the one I just pushed dAnce on last phase), because town will mostly put in at least some effort into solving the game.

Basically.. Why haven't you been trying to find wolves?
Also, who do you think the remaining two wolves are, and why?

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

No one has seriously addressed my alignment this phase and I figured I had to create content to give you something to look at. I am trying to help you read me.

This was one of the reasons you gave for pushing me. But you also did say you changed your mind because you reread your own post and found it wasn't incriminating, meaning that you had to at least have pushed partly because you thought I was a wolf, right?

Great, so which is it? Did you think I was town and was trying to help me read you, or did you think I was a wolf and were trying to reactiontest?
Whatever your answer is to that, why did you try to explain pushing me by giving five different reasons for the same single push?

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I really thought AA's slot was a wolf from the beginning and I changed my mind. These posts are about me explaining why I changed my mind.

Yes, but after you changed your mind you tried to explain away why you pushed me initially this phase, and gave a bunch of conflicting answers. Can't you see that that's why I keep asking these same questions? Because you gave literally 5 different reasons for one action.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

How am I pushing you if my current lynch pool is DFR/dadcop2 ?

Come on, Haku. Obviously I'm referring to your push at the start of this phase, and that's past tense. You changed your lynch pool after taking back your push on me.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Not this time.

-sigh- I don't know if I can believe this rn

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

This was one of the reasons you gave for pushing me. But you also did say you changed your mind because you reread your own post and found it wasn't incriminating, meaning that you had to at least have pushed partly because you thought I was a wolf, right?

Great, so which is it? Did you think I was town and was trying to help me read you, or did you think I was a wolf and were trying to reactiontest?
Whatever your answer is to that, why did you try to explain pushing me by giving five different reasons for the same single push?

I was reacting testing you and trying to help you read me at same time. Honestly, you're making this more confusing than it should be.
I will always have some doubts about your alignment, but you look a lot better than the rest. I just couldn't think of a better way to use content and help you read me.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Yes, but after you changed your mind you tried to explain away why you pushed me initially this phase, and gave a bunch of conflicting answers. Can't you see that that's why I keep asking these same questions? Because you gave literally 5 different reasons for one action.

What's wrong with having 5 different reasons for one action?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Come on, Haku. Obviously I'm referring to your push at the start of this phase, and that's past tense. You changed your lynch pool after taking back your push on me.

It's more prodding than a push fmpov.

[dadcop2]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Okay. You're being really complacent, and a review of your posts throughout the game (ISO, accessible through clicking the # of posts next to a thread, then clicking the #postcount of the relevant player, here) shows that you haven't been scumhunting basically all game.

When you are here, you say people can ask you questions, but you don't have any for others. You've responded to a lot of jokeposts, and have made a bunch of them yourself, but haven't really pushed or prodded anyone or made a visible effort to solve this game at all.

In the third day phase (D2), you said you didn't have an opinion on DFR because he hadn't done anything scummy or anything towny. You also said you didn't want to post reads because your list was mostly nulls at that point.

Basically, you pop in here and there, occasionally leaving your thoughts on something that's going on, but are content/complacent in leaving the game to others. That's usually a scumtell (exactly like the one I just pushed dAnce on last phase), because town will mostly put in at least some effort into solving the game.

Basically.. Why haven't you been trying to find wolves?
Also, who do you think the remaining two wolves are, and why?

if you were to say i put in little effort i'd be fine with that. but you said i've put no effort in, which you know is a lie. remaining 2 wolves imo are you and dfr. dfr is on the table until he explains his last reads list, and you're on because i don't like your interactions with haku and i'm taking his side on that. you're really nitpicking his posts in a way i think is unnecessary. yeah, he gave you 5 reasons why he pushed you. are all 5 of them mutually exclusive? no

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Oh, I haven't read it yet.
I'm going to need to because I hear it's the only source of info on dadcop's meta, but haven't had the time to read TWG outside of this game.

I got the idea from the first game I read where I think sunfan? used that exact tactic to ask another player a question (I think maybe dAnce?) with a time limit. It ended up not working there, either, but I hoped it might lead to something here.



Eh, I was hoping you'd try to brush it off or explain it offhandedly without giving you time to go back and see what your first response was. I guess your memory didn't need time to recall your reasoning. Didn't work, but it was worth a shot.

Ok to be fair he went about it very differently (Wasn't a game related question, requested it be at least two paragraphs long, etc etc) But I was expecting something along those lines even with 120 seconds.

I think what gets me about your response was "It's never that easy" implying to me that you didn't get what you wanted and didn't get anything you could use from my answer. I would expect it to at least be an indication that my answer was not a lie (IE a town thing to say) but I got the sense you where trying to get me to mislynch myself.

Now that may not be fair, because SunFan just tried something similar and I made that comparison before you even asked, but that's my point of view on the matter.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

The only wolf game I've ever played on FFR was the cancelled Survivor Valais, where I was very much the opposite of a team player. I refused to cooperate with the OP town strat, I argued against everything that was good for town, and I was generally just very much not a team player. Even if I was, though, you couldn't say I "tend" to be anything off of one game.

Dear God I thought you where dead when you denied that. I can't believe people didn't jump on you. I could have swore I was gonna have to mislynch and hope that the Lie Detector was a dipshit lol.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

That's self-commentary after rereading my post and realizing how weak it looks like even before you posted about it.

Translation: "Basically I knew it was bullshit and here's my way out please read me like I'm stupid it gets me to not be lynched"

Originally Posted by dadcop2

i mean you can be productive and still be a wolf. productivity isn't entirely alignment indicative

You'd be surprised. I mean I'll be fair and say it's not a steadfast rule....

AA could do it
Charu has done it to me a few times.
Xel and Xiz tend to be the higher Post Count Wolves when I was trying to prove Post Theory....

but besides examples here and there, everyone tends to drop off and be more inactive as wolf. It's just super easy to go under the radar with fewer post.


QUESTION DADCOP

Why did you not make this argument when AA and Freezin where talking about lynching inactives? Why did you wait this long?
If you did, please quote that if you have time (it's not EoD so I fully expect you to have time to find your post)

Originally Posted by dadcop2

yeah thats true, but honestly how much of it is really content? i went back to the last couple pages after this day started and ctrl+f'd my name. apart from a couple things from mml mentioning how i was stuck on storn being ic all day(i wasn't i had literally like 2 posts about that), and how he didn't like me leaving the thread when nobody else posted anything and i had to go do shit, all posts that included me were statements along the lines of "dadcop is scum", or "dadcop should be lynched". uh yeah, real detailed stuff there man. great content keep it up.

That's a horrible way to read through the thread. First, are you checking for shortened versions of your name? If I did mine I'd never show, for example, because everyone calls me MML or Lar

Second, it really seems like you are more worried about how people view you vesus trying to play the game.

QUESTION DADCOP2

Are you aware where everyone stands with one another, or only with how they feel about you?

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

What's wrong with having 5 different reasons for one action?

Give them all out at once and nothing at all.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

It's more prodding than a push fmpov.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh bullshit. That was a push. A push that you immediately regretted.