TWG XXXVI - Player Signups - 9/2 - 1pm, 5pm, 11pm

[Tasselfoot]

Get me those PMs, Biotches.

[jwcgator]

in before lock if you're gonna lock it.

[Tasselfoot]

if i could kick you out of the usergroup, i would.

why on earth would you post in here? i left it open so those interested in hosting could post their ideas.... and you come in here with spam.

idiot.

[Tasselfoot]

IGGY
TWG Politics style!

18 players
3 wolves
1 politician (subtracts all votes from someone by PM to host: optional and only if the max lynch quota isn’t met)

No vote changing. Your first vote is your final vote. (Max of two votes on one person)

Players with the lowest amount of votes will be lynched (day quotas are explained below. If more players are candidates for a lynch then the quota then a 20 sided die will be rolled for each player and the lowest numbers will be the lynched players. This process will be the KitB for this game.)

Since I like the idea of actually using voting patterns, I’m making a rule where a wolf can only vote for another wolf if a human voted for that same wolf. (Remember, you cannot change your vote, so if wolf X votes human A, and human B votes wolf Y, then wolf X still cannot vote wolf Y. However wolf Z can vote wolf Y because human B voted wolf Y also.)

Day1 Up to 4 people can be lynched
Day2 Up to 3 people can be lynched
Day3 Up to 2 people can be lynched
Day4+ 1 lynch

This basically means that the humans can afford to have the max amount of lynches per day and not really change a regular game setup. The humans would have to get at least 1 wolf by day 4 or game is over.

This game is to try and remedy inactivity a little bit. See in this game if you don’t get noticed, then you don’t live. Slipping under the radar means no one would vote you and you would die.

Also there’s a double-edged sword for voting early. If you vote early you could get the most human sounding person first, but that would give the person you voted for free reign to say whatever he wanted without worry of being killed.

However vote late and have a more difficult time trying to find a good human. Except maybe more people will want to beg for your vote XD.

I see this as something different to what has been played for a while. I’m not sure exactly how balanced it would be. It’s looks like it would be stacked towards the humans because there is so much room for them to make mistakes and yet get all the wolves. But if the wolves wanted to stay alive, they would work harder to get someone to vote for them. So if there’s a huge problem with it, then post it and I’ll either toss it or tweet it a bit.



FOJAR
Bunking game:

2 wolves, 1 wolf seer, 1 zombie wolf, 1 tainted seer, 1 bookie, one illuminati trio, 1 zombie human, 2 blue millers, 1 red miller, 9 humans, a total of 22 people.

the wolf seer gets to see if there's "anyone home" at one house each night before the wolves pick their kill. he will not find out how many are inside, only if there is someone inside or not.

the zombie wolf and zombie human get two lives each.

the tainted seer is on the wolves's team, but starts out not knowing any of them. each night he may seer someone, and will find out if they are green, blue, or red. the tainted seer wins if the wolves win, but he does not have to be dead for the humans to win. once during the game, the tainted seer can perform a dark ritual, killing any player during the night cycle. the tainted seer can only perform the dark ritual if he is alone in his home. if performed in the first two days, teh dark ritual will succeed unless the player is in a guarded house. after the second day, the ritual will have a 50% success rate. the dark ritual will be announced as a dark ritual kill.

each night the bookie will bet on EITHER the wolfing or the lynching for the following day. if he is correct, he may raise any lynched player from the dead. the bookie is operating illegally. if his role becomes public, he immediately dies.

the illuminati trio is like a mason trio, except they can as a group make one guard each night. the illuminati trio cannot guard a house containing any of the trio.

millers are humans that will come up as a different color if the tainted seer asks for their role. blue millers come up blue, the red miller comes up red. the millers will not know that they are millers.

no card flipping.

the rules for bunking are as follows:

only two people may bunk together.

for the two people to bunk, they must BOTH send PMs that say who they are bunking with, and which of their houses they will be staying at. if the information doesnt match up, they end up not bunking together.

the wolves make their kill by the house, not by the person. they have a chance to miss, and a chance to score a bonus kill.

the illuminati will likewise guard by the house, not the person.

a wolf, should he convince a human to bunk with him, will have the option to kill his bunkmate. only one wolf may take advantage of this bonus kill per night.

all bodies will be found in the houses that they died in, with the exception of optional wolf kills. with these, the bodies will be found in the houses of the owners, UNLESS the bunking takes place at the house of the wolf and the house is guarded. in this case the wolf will not be able to get the body out of the house, and it will be discovered there.

in the morning, i will flip a coin 3 times, and if the same side comes up on each flip, i will send out PMs detailing to the bunkers whether or not the person they agreed to bunk with came over or not. otherwise, there was a blackout that night, and you wont know if the person came over/let you in or not. the wolves and tainted seer will always know if they succeeded in bunking.

there are to be no mystery PMs or instant messages. no night posting.

[Tasselfoot]

as both of these games have a lot of new stuff in them, this thread is now open for discussion... sometime tomorrow night we'll start host voting.

Anyone who host votes before I say they can will be shot in the face.

[Kilgamayan]

In iggy's game, what's to stop people from voting for themselves?

In Fojar's game (retro with the devil btw), how many locations are there to bunk at? What happens if two people independently choose the same location? If an illuminati person dies, do the other two still get a guard pick?

[Tasselfoot]

Iggy's game... my assumption was people couldn't vote themselves, obviously.


Fojar's... every person has their own "house". so there is 1 bunk for each person. The assumption is that you bunk at your own house, unless you and whoever else agree that the two of you are bunking together.

Like it would be advantageous for me to bunk at a newb's house...




Biggest problem I see with both games is the need for 18 and 22 people, respectively. Also, Fojar's seems way too complex. Start with the bunk idea and THEN move on to throwin in 10 other roles... don't do it all at once. And I'm not so sure I agree with Iggy's math on having 4 day 1 lynches, 3 day 2 lynches... etc etc being equal to having 2 less players and 1 lynch per day. we're having as many as 6 extra lynches but only 2 extra people. *shrugs*.

[nforcer06164]

iggy's game seems much less chaotic than fojar's... fojar's is far too comlex to work well. Plus, the absence of IMs will ruin the deilcate fabric of involved discussion, which is sometimes necessary to ensure complete understanding of a game (especially when it is this complex), and is often an integral tool in determining votes and such.

iggy's game... well, 4 lynches in one day... the way I see it, you're not really lowering the chances of getting a wolf. I think the math is right, but it just makes the game a lot shorter (in both real and game days).

Note that I won't be playing in either because I don't currently have the time to play TWG. Soccer takes up far too much time for me to be active. I just thought I'd throw in my opinion as long as I'm around to do so.

[HansSky]

I think he meant no mystery PMs or mystery IMs, not just banning IMing all together.

[Afrobean]

I kinda like Iggy's idea, but will it work out fairly with the numbers? It seems like it might be stacked in the favor of the humans a bit much, what with the multiple lynches in one day compared to the wolves only getting one wolfing.

Fojar's seems decent, but it seems like wolves might have a bit of an advantage. How many possible kills do they have each night? Are they limited to one bunking kill per night, in addition to their normal kill?

[StoicRoivaS]

To clarify, IMs are allowed, mystery IMs or PMs are not allowed, or at least this is how I understood it. As far as I know, the guardian trio will always have 1 guard between them, whether 3, 2, or 1 are living.

I helped FoJar balance this as much as I could and the idea behind it is an obvious information overload along with information confusion. In prior set ups, if someone dies randomly during the day, it's usually quite obvious as to why, vigi, etc., but in this game, a few of the roles overlap and or disguise themselves so that one cannot be entirely sure of some aspect of the game setup. i.e. the millers will be posing as red/blue to the tainted seer and the bookie/zombie roles overlap in a way that the bookie may raise a lynched player after they are lynched to have it appear as if they are one of the two zombie roles. There is also the option of trusting certain people/groups of people with your bunking location/partner, but in the event of blackouts, most of this information can be skewed and distorted to help the situation of wolves and humans alike.

The original game idea was entirely FoJars and I worked with him on balance issues and role suggestions. It's still his game so the above will need to be confirmed with him but that is how I understood the game, pertaining to the points in question. Increasing player count, role count, and outright carnage is aimed to be an answer to the inactivity, in FoJar's original construction, I believe. His inspiration was fun and bloody, so he (we) took that idea and ran. The game is only as complicated as you are unwilling to think it through. Sorry if it's a bit much for the purists who don't like to think and would rather read [people]. I'll try to answer any more questions that may be had until FoJar can clarify anything that needs it. Take care.

EDIT @ Afro: Wolves have a maximum of 3 kills per night but a minimum of ZERO. If they choose to wolf a house with 2 humans in it and they also have a wolf bunking with a human, they can achieve 3 kills on such a night. The 2 human bodies are found at the house that was wolfed and the body from the 'extra' kill (max of 1 per night) from the wolf/human bunking is found in the human's house thus partly disguising the identity of the wolf bunkmate, unless of course they bunked at the wolf's house and the house was guarded by the Illuminati trio. In this case the body is found at the wolf's house thus implicating him entirely. Likewise if the wolves pick a human's house to wolf, and that human is at another house bunking there for the night, the wolves forfeit their kill for the night, unless of course they take the 'extra kill' (if they can).

General Edit: I don't believe it was explicitly stated, but one of the intents in the construction/balancing of this game was the try and restrict of even remove the possibility of any role coming out publicly with any bit of certainty behind it. This is the reason for the stipulation that the bookie's identity is supposed to remain concealed. With most, if not all, other roles, there is little reason to trust a person coming out, and little benefit by doing so. There are numerous interactions between all roles and I'm sure we missed a few key ones that may break the game in one teams favor, but to me, this is half of the fun. In throwing all of these new balancing roles in, it allows for intelligent players to be well rewarded through creative strats.

General Edit 2: FoJar affirmed all the above assumptions that I made about the game structure/design.

[FoJaR]

thanks stoic.

kilga: the illuminati retains the power to guard as long as one of them is alive.

and yeah hans, it's no mystery PMs and no mystery IMs. IMing is allowed, as long as the person who you're talking to knows exactly who they're talking to.

also, if you've been lynched, dont talk to anyone after you're dead, because the bookie might raise you from the dead.

[Tasselfoot]

I just don't see us getting 22.... unless you allow Whorli/Tass, nForcer/Neon, Guido/Panda interactions in the game...

even then, 22 is a lot to get in there. You'll be getting the likes of deltro, jwc, ddrruler, lightknight... aka, stupid ****s that are going to ruin the game for the rest of the people... No way in hell can we get 22 worthwhile people, especially with the recent bans and apparently with school starting causing some to have less time.

[FoJaR]

is AP still banned?

[iggymatrixcounter]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

Iggy's game... my assumption was people couldn't vote themselves, obviously.

Yes, sorry I thought it was in there.

Originally Posted by tass

18 players

Shouldn't be a problem as any inactive/dumb players won't get votes and will be killed off quickly. If you want to survive, you have to be useful not just "not wolfy."

The reason I put more players and more lynches is because most likely there are going to be 2-4 players that won't get any votes day1. And that number will decrease as the game goes on. (In theory lol)

Game numbers kind of look like this:
Begin day1: 17 players (up to 4 person lynch)
Begin day2: 12 players (up to 3 person lynch)
Begin day3: 8 players (up to 2 person lynch) (game over if no wolves dead)
Begin day4: 5 players (1 lynch)

It gives the humans the room to make as many kills as they want and still pretty much have the same amount of time.

Plus, something that can be discussed is how many kills to take in the beginning days. Obviously they don't HAVE to be that many. But trying to get people to agree on people will make it harder for the kill limit to stay down IMO.

Someone said this game would be fast. However I like fast, high action games compared to longer games. Activity is always a problem so might as well cut out the boredom as much as possible.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Also: "each night the bookie will bet on EITHER the wolfing or the lynching for the following day. if he is correct, he may raise any lynched player from the dead. the bookie is operating illegally. if his role becomes public, he immediately dies."

If I'm the bookie, what stops me from telling everyone in an IM that I'm the bookie. No one mentions it on the thread because I'm a lot of help to the humans. A wolf wouldn't mention it because it would mean his death (bookie for a wolf seems like a good deal IMO)

Then everyone knows who I am and I tell them to lynch people and I bet that that person will be lynched and resurrect him. Yea the wolves still have their kill(s). But it would slow the game down so the seer could find more confirmed wolves. Oh and I also have the guardian guard me and I don't bunk with anyone so I don't die, meaning that even if two people die per night from wolf kills, the fastest the game could go is about 6 days. If that's a senario you would like (I think it's a sweet loophole in the role XD) then go for it. Otherwise I think I'm reading something wrong.

[FoJaR]

it doesnt need to be mentioned in the thread. if a wolf comes to me saying you said you were the bookie, you're toast son.

[sertman]

The thing that I see wrong with Iggy's game is this:

Lets say I'm going to vote for Tass. This is the first vote for tass. Now, because wolves can't vote for other wolves unless a human has already voted one, it means that unless I'm retarded, me and Tass aren't wolves together... which could have an effect on the game in favor of the humans.

Also, it seems a little stacked against new players. I'd be very suprised if I lasted past Day 1, because people are going to vote for the best players to keep them alive.

I think FoJaR's could work, but I'd like to see a third option.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Originally Posted by sertman

The thing that I see wrong with Iggy's game is this:

Lets say I'm going to vote for Tass. This is the first vote for tass. Now, because wolves can't vote for other wolves unless a human has already voted one, it means that unless I'm retarded, me and Tass aren't wolves together... which could have an effect on the game in favor of the humans.

This is true and I hope it becomes part of the strategy. As the wolves will need to be oh so careful as to how they vote. I had a seer in this game but took it out because the info gained could LOGICALLY prove wolves which is a lot more fun.

Originally Posted by sertman

Also, it seems a little stacked against new players. I'd be very suprised if I lasted past Day 1, because people are going to vote for the best players to keep them alive.

Like I said, in order to stay alive you need to be useful lol. I only said new players would go first because they usually don't act very useful (whether they are afraid or just can't so it.) I'm sure that if you did something or convinced someone then you could live. Besides, just go to another new player and tag team your votes if you're THAT desparate. You'll live a long time unless the politician decides that one of you must go.

It would be like bunking, just, in a sadistic form XD. And if too many people did this (Which is what I as host would fear) then all it would turn into is this huge KitB for like 10 people XD. So I hope those types of things get accounted for also in this game.

Basically I want it to go in anyway. I want lots of info with lots of senarios and many things to discuss. Not only does this game offer that, but also the incentive to make sure everything gets discussed. There's no excuse for "not finding something to say."

Just my opinion.

[sertman]

Your game just seems incredibly stacked in favor of the humans. The only way that I can see this working out are if the 3 best players get picked as wolves. Otherwise, ESPECIALLY if a newer player gets to draw the wolf, it's going to be hell for them because they have to post a lot, get people to vote for them, AND not tip people off that they're a wolf. There are a lot of people who are really bad at being a wolf, and if you get 3 of them in this game i don't think it'll last very long.