So I went to church tonight....

[Afrobean]

I don't have a problem with those "continuity errors"...

The book was written by many different people over a period of a very long time. Shoddy worksmanship on their parts, but I'm sure that's why most of those contradictions exist. I mean, hell, the writers of the New Testament couldn't even match the mood of the Old Testament. Not very skilled writers.

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I don't have a problem with those "continuity errors"...

The book was written by many different people over a period of a very long time. Shoddy worksmanship on their parts, but I'm sure that's why most of those contradictions exist. I mean, hell, the writers of the New Testament couldn't even match the mood of the Old Testament. Not very skilled writers.

Continuity errors in a book that claims it's divinely inspired would definitely worry me if I was basing my life off of it.

Plus I was responding to "THE BIBLE HAS NO CONTRADICTIONS I KNOW I'VE STUDIED THE BIBLE MYSELF"

[Afrobean]

Yeah, sorry, I look at the book in the same way I look at The Odyssey, The Iliad, or... um... Beowulf.

8)

[MalReynolds]

I have a very simple belief system:

I don't worry myself about God. I worry about people. It's my belief that humanity, as a collective, is pretty dumb. Individuals have the capability of being smart, but mob rule is prevelent. I trust people only to make bad decisions or decisions that suit them the best. The same is true of me -- I think if myself as charitable, but I do go out of my way to help people because it makes me feel good.

In short, everyone is dumb except me because I recognize how dumb everyone is and everyone will inevitably make the wrong decision and humanity is kind of not worth fighting for.

I was chatting with a friend last night. She asked me why I was so paranoid.

I said, "Because nothing matters but the moment, and when you stop having moments... when you stop, you stop. In 100 years, people won't remember me or care about me or you or us, but it helps me deal with everything, the collapsing nature of life, if I believe the world is out to get me. Helps me feel special, because in 100 years... Won't feel so great anymore."

And then she said, "Unless you buy into eternal recurrence."

But my point stands.

AS FOR GOING TO CHURCH!

When dad left mom, she found God for about 3 weeks. I didn't dislike going, but it didn't really do anything for me. I used to go with my grandmother, as well, but I found all the kids there to be really creepy in a Village of the Damned kind of way.

[FaulkApsargs]

Alright, then.

First, here's a link to Hawking's lecture on the beginning of time, because there is no way I can explain his theory as well as him.

http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/lindex.html

But, for those of you too lazy to read it, I will attempt to summarize. First of all, Hawking suggests that the 2nd law of thermodynamics (disorder always increases with time) is evidence enough that the universe has not always existed, because if it had, everything would be MUCH more chaotic than it is, and there would be no way that our little planet would be able to sit in its orbit long enough to bring human life to the point it's at now. He also says that in an everlasting universe, everything would be the same temperature, and every line of sight would end on the surface of a star, making the night sky as bright as the sun. So, we can clearly see that the universe had to have a beginning and is, in fact, relatively young. But how did the universe begin? Well, Hawking says it was with a singularity, or "The Big Bang." It's been observed that galaxies are steadily moving apart, and if we plot their separation as a function of time, we can see that at one point in time, all the matter of the universe was condensed into one little point, which is a singularity. He says that the laws of physics break down in a singularity (which I'm not sure how he knows that) and because of this, we'll never know anything about anything before the singularity, if anything existed at all. So, the singularity was the beginning of time. At this point, we can refer to the 1st law of thermodynamics, which states that energy cannot be destroyed or created, and wonder where the MASSIVE amount of energy in our universe came from if the universe is not eternal. Energy cannot be created, so really, where did it come from? This is one hole in science where some argue that a "god" could fit in. Also, we all know that the odds of everything randomly falling into place for Earth to exist the way it does are terribly low, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't happen over time. However, we know the universe is relatively young, and that only makes the odds that much lower.

I think the scientific evidence for intelligent design is too convincing to ignore, but that's just my opinion. Oh, and I hope that all made enough sense.

[Grandiagod]

[quote=FaulkApsargs;2834196]

I think the scientific evidence for intelligent design is too convincing to ignore, but that's just my opinion. Oh, and I hope that all made enough sense.

While most of your evidence relies on a god of the gaps mentality (eg. We don't know yet how it happened so goddidit, which has no factual or logical basis whatsoever) and I take intellectual offense to that. This seems to be a discussion about a personal christian god, not an ambiguous eternal force.

[Izzy]

Evolution is close to scientific fact as gravity. Before you make the comments that it isn't i suggest you go learn what evolution is. Which is what a theory is.

[Grandiagod]

Also am I the only one who finds it odd that the universe has to have a creator but god just can exist all over the place uncaused defying supposed creationist logic because they've built an invincible imaginary friend?

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by Grandiagod

Also am I the only one who finds it odd that the universe has to have a creator but god just can exist all over the place uncaused defying supposed creationist logic because they've built an invincible imaginary friend?

If you were, this would be a sad world.

[FaulkApsargs]

[quote=Grandiagod;2834206]

Originally Posted by FaulkApsargs

While most of your evidence relies on a god of the gaps mentality (eg. We don't know yet how it happened so goddidit, which has no factual or logical basis whatsoever) and I take intellectual offense to that. This seems to be a discussion about a personal christian god, not an ambiguous eternal force.

There is somewhat of a logical basis, though, because, according to modern science, the laws of thermodynamics can't be broken.

Please, don't take offense and don't be hostile. I never understood why people always get so heated over debates of the such. Let's all keep it chill. =)

And yeah, the thread seems to be about Christianity, but someone asked me to elaborate, so I did.

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by FaulkApsargs

There is somewhat of a logical basis, though, because, according to modern science, the laws of thermodynamics can't be broken.

if that's the basis of the argument, inventing a force that can break the laws of thermodynamics isn't how you go about solving the problem. If you could scientifically explain this force, or at least provide evidence to it's existence beyond it being an unsupported option in the arsenal of universe theories then it would have something of a platform to stand on. However right now it's essentially "We don't know how this can happen, so something above the laws of the universe had to make it happen." which isn't a terrible thought, but it's not supported by any evidence so it's not a good debate point.

[Necros140606]

Originally Posted by eastsideman09

SO... uh, I guess.... uh.... What's church like for you guys? If you don't go, why don't you go?

do not want to read the entire thread so i'll just say that church is like god's shop. you go in there, and in exchange of your time and support, your "sins" are forgiven and your soul will be saved. now, look at those modern churches. they all try to look colored and shiny, with music, games, and such things. isn't this another merchandise? then look at the churches back in the middle ages. they were obscure, dark and squallid, since they didn't need people to choose them. people were forced in them by common sense and culture. of course, now that they can no longer force religion down your throat, they will try to appear as an happy, welcoming family. that's merely the result of a changement in the world, it's not like they do that because they want you to be happy. of all power installments of all time, church has done some of the most dreadful atrocities ever. and killed more people, directly and indirectly, than nazism did. however, people still think it's okay to forget about the past and they changed and blabla. then let's forget about the millions people killed by nazism and let's welcome them in our parliaments!!!! church is not the word of god (i don't think there's any god either but that's another story). bible is a myth book given for golden true. it's all so absurd than i can't picture myelf walking in a church even in the next ten billion years, just how i wouldn't picture myself being a nazi.

[who_cares973]

i went to church a couple months ago

and apparently god stopped communism


also

[Necros140606]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

i went to church a couple months ago

and apparently god stopped communism

....

[devonin]

I'm torn between taking the time and effort involved in quoting about 30 posts in this thread and responding to all of them, or just locking this thread as ridiculous.

Oh wait, it's in CC...

[robertsona]

so does that mean neither

[devonin]

Well, I was going to lock it, and then I was like "But a bunch of people are going to be whiners about it if I do"

[FaulkApsargs]

Originally Posted by Grandiagod

if that's the basis of the argument, inventing a force that can break the laws of thermodynamics isn't how you go about solving the problem. If you could scientifically explain this force, or at least provide evidence to it's existence beyond it being an unsupported option in the arsenal of universe theories then it would have something of a platform to stand on. However right now it's essentially "We don't know how this can happen, so something above the laws of the universe had to make it happen." which isn't a terrible thought, but it's not supported by any evidence so it's not a good debate point.

Well, it's universally agreed upon by historians that Jesus existed. The problem people have is in the way the records of his miracles (and the resurrection) are translated or interpreted. So, one could (and should if you want to be completely objective) use the historicity of the Bible for evidence (there is a HUGE 7 volume book that explains all the proof for the Bible that I could point you to, if you're interested). I'm not saying that I do, but one could.

And, if something does exist that breaks the laws of science, science won't be able to explain it. So, I think it's a perfectly fine topic of debate.

[robertsona]

Who cares really?
I don't exactly see the point of leaving this thread open. It will probably degenerate into religion babble like "ATHIEST SUCK" "NO U" but I guess you can just leave it open for now until it does that. If it doesn't do that, I'll be surprised.
In a way it kind of already has.
If you're forced to lock it, I just say ignore the whiners, who cares about them.
EDIT: To Devonin's post, obviously.
EDIT2: I guess people might be pissed off at me for posting this but boo-hoo screw you.

[MalReynolds]

Sometimes I like praying because I like thinking that someone is listening to my problems but choosing to ignore them because it's easier than just having no one to talk to and having my problems ignored anyway.