Ingame Songs/Stepfiles Discussion Thread

[Zybanthia]

I have officially never played anything that hurt my hands as much as Haruka. And if you think this is a sarcastic post, it's not.

[jcase]

hey i was wondering is there any way to unlock chrono trigger battle theme, it used to be in the arcade selection and ive also seen MrRubix play it when he turned his webcam toward his screen a little while back

[Patashu]

It's not in-game any more because of copyright issues

If you saw MrRubix play it it's because he's a dirty dirty cheater

[demonllama6124]

Originally Posted by Patashu

If you saw MrRubix play it it's because he's a dirty dirty cheater

actually thats not true. iirc, there was a link posted here once before where you could play FFR when it was way back and the day. i little bit of digging and you can find it.

[Patashu]

oh yeah, or it's the mega old version

[robertsona]

so i just realized how mega-fun across rooftops is

[Zybanthia]

Originally Posted by behanjc

Elaborate please.

The 32nd before the left/right jump that comes in before the techno at the beginning is non-existant.

When the music speeds up in the beginning, your PR has issues. At the end of every couple measures I feel like I'm going lower when I should be going higher, meaning the runningmen you used were wrong (which makes sense because the runningmen just feel retarded here). For example I can't really give you a measure number but if you count eight 4th notes from the beginning, then the eighth 4th note goes lower when the sound is going higher. You just used the wrong patterns altogether. You hinged your runningmen on the left arrow when they should have played around the up arrow.

At 320-ish there's a double snare hit in which you only put a jump to one snare hit when you were putting jumps to all of them.

At 380 or so there is a string of right-handed jumps that don't make any sense. Not only is there not two notes for layering there (or even a strong snare hit just for emphasis)... the jumps are put to absolutely no sound. There is what would be a hold there, and I know you can't do holds in FFR but that doesn't mean you just slap a bunch of the same 8th note in a row instead. There is NOTHING there, not even one of those dumb electrical buzzes people step to.

There's this recurring section of loud snare hits (take around 500 combo for example) where something just feels wrong with the jump placement. It's like you didn't place jumps to the snare hits, which, as loud as they are, is fine, but you have this 8th jump (take the up/down 8th, then right 16th, then repeating up/down 8th) that is just not layered to anything. At a point I thought I'd figured out that you were layering to the violin in the background and leaving the snare hits as normal arrows otherwise but that jump just makes no sense. And this may or may not even be consistent with the other sections that make this particular sound with the drums and violin.

Some time later on is this 16th jump in the middle of nowhere (like you're just doing the 16th guitar stuff) that I haven't really analyzed but it feels absolutely retarded.

Way later on, there are two fairly short 24th streams. The first is completely non-existant. I have played it on every single speed in Stepmania multiple times at many different volumes and the guitar is not playing 24ths. The guitar is simply going higher in pitch.

This is all what I've done without scrutinzing your file with a replay or Stepmania or whatever else. I'm able to catch these things (especially the PR) just by playing, so I'd imagine there's lots more that I could find if I had your file open in an SM editor.

These are just the seeds of how detached I become from the music when I play this file. Aside from this stuff, it's like all the really cool snare hits and stuff were just single arrows, and instead the dumb guitar and violin are the main focus, making it just a lot of random broken 16ths that have layering too hard to affiliate with because it's to the violin, which is not a predominant sound at all.

If you'd like to post the explanation to this stepfile in V4N's thread then I'd love to see it and be proven wrong in a multitude of ways. But even if I've misidentified these as technical errors, I still stand by the statement that this file is one of the worst files I have ever played, period (excluding all old and offbeat crap, of course).

[behanjc]

I'm not gonna post a full explanation of the file because honestly, I don't like it either. This was like my fourth file, and it probably is one of my most "erroneous" files. I make sure to use the term erroneous very carefully. In a file, pretty much the only thing you can truly say is erroneous is an obviously incorrect rhythm, or break in obvious layering (often in this case there is no error, but simply that the layering is not obvious).

You just always **** on my files without saying why, hence my request.

You're view of files to me seems very linear. There is not one "correct" pattern, and one pattern that is PR. With four arrows, if the melody has more that 4 notes, one can interpret the progression of notes many different ways. For my running man pattern, a running man pattern definitely makes sense, and it definitely does revolve around repeated 16th notes. The placement of the arrows around these 16ths can be interpreted differently.

Unfortunately, there actually is a 32nd I put in that's not there, but I don't think that we're thinking about the same one. If I were to do this file again, I probably would take out the majority of the 32nds. However that is not to say they're not there. In most of them, they go to a soft percussion part. For the one I believe you are talking about, the percussion does NOT go from a 16th to a 32nd into the quarter jump. Rather, it is simply from a 32nd to the quarter (like a gallop). The 16th preceding the 32nd is part of the emerging melody.

For all those right hand jumps, there is nothing... in the melody. However, the background guitar at least in my audio setup is quite prominent. During this section there is a significant crescendo and to me, it felt as if these warranted jumps. I'll admit, I used copy paste, and when this part repeats the crescendo does not seem as significant.

Yea, some of my layering is quite abstract. Like often, I wont place single notes and then jumps to a certain sound, but rather single notes, and jumps when certain sounds coincide with the melody. Or if the melody does not play at that point, there have to be very prominent background noises, or something along those lines. It's tough to go into great detail, and with this section, the jumps that you think are extra, probably occur at the most prominent background guitar noises (along with something else). I won't commit to saying that there is nothing wrong with that section, and would certainly redo it in a new file.

I'll admit the first 24th stream in the solo section is probably BS. As an inexperienced stepper I merely was confused by the distortion of the guitar.

The 16th jump is part of the main melody (the solo in this case is somewhat in the background).

[Zybanthia]

I understand your request, but honestly, why did you bother if you know it's one of your most erroneous files, and the one you dislike the most?

The reason I talk crap about your files without saying why is because I don't want to spend a chunk of my time going through what I don't like about them. Because trust me, I can spend a while.

If you'll notice, though, Lunatic Princess is the only file I've ever called you out for on technical errors. Most of your files are very PR, with correct layering and whatever else. I just don't enjoy clunky 32nd note hi-hat patterns. Like you even said, you'd remove most of the 32nds from Lunatic Princess. I wouldn't put them in there, but I hear them all except the one I pointed out.

It's just that you have a tendency to make a lot of your bass or drumrolls really weird. Like, a 4 3 1 2 patterns, or something similar. I never resonate with these patterns musically because I feel a roll, and so many people step rolls to these bass and drumrolls, and it's not because everyone else does it that way; it's because that's the way it feels good.

For example, in Final Step, there is a section of a 24th drum roll in which you used this really bizarre pattern involving what's almost a right-handed runningman. I have no idea why that pattern is set to that section. But I don't ever call you out on the technicality of it because you're ultimately allowed to put whatever you want to a drumroll. It's just that I find the pattern really dumb.

Also, before you go and criticize the way I look at files, maybe you should spend more time reading my posts.

Originally Posted by Zybanthia

There is no "true PR" when you're working with 4 arrows. Some stepfile artists think you should step the same sound on exactly the same note at ALL times, even across different measures and movements of music. If you have to go back to the left as a "continuation" of the PR, so be it. And that's fine. To me, that totally breaks the feeling of PR because I feel I've gone lower when I've heard a sound that goes higher. I know the intended effect, but it doesn't feel good.

Others, like myself, like to actually have a note that goes higher go to the right, and a note that goes lower go to the left. If this means stepping something that is technically a different pitch as SOMEWHERE ELSE in the song on the same arrow, then so be it. At least you are always going higher or lower which is PR to that artist. And that's fine too. It feels a lot better, but for somebody that is trying to be "technically correct" (in whatever way you can possible be technically correct about PR), it's not going to look as good.

Again, true PR is usually impossible and it's up to each individual stepfile artist to convey the pitch in a way that does it some justice, since absolute justice is often not achievable.

If you read what I said about your pitch relevancy... sorry bro it's wrong. I explained pretty clearly that the 4th note is going backwards when the pitch is going higher (and you're not wrapping to the left to indicate that you're intending to go higher; you're putting it one arrow back). If you're going to try and sit here and tell me that it's okay to go lower when a note is going higher... then how the hell do you define pitch relevancy? I mean I won't bother to go to the right when a note's higher anymore if that's the case, just let me know. I didn't say a runningman pattern is wrong; I specifically said it should be a runningman, and you just used the wrong one.

[behanjc]

Originally Posted by Zybanthia

I understand your request, but honestly, why did you bother if you know it's one of your most erroneous files, and the one you dislike the most?

The reason I talk crap about your files without saying why is because I don't want to spend a chunk of my time going through what I don't like about them. Because trust me, I can spend a while.

If you don't want to spend time justifying your remarks, then do not make those remarks in the first place.

On a less important note:
Within the running man sections (ignoring all others for the time being) I can see only one of these 3 sections where a note goes down where it actually goes up. For this case, there simply was no possible arrow placement as the sixteenths were at the right most note. So, they went back over to the other side (similarly to a long run of consecutive notes. After reaching the right most arrow in a roll, you move back to the left even though the note is higher and continue the same pattern.)

Between these running man sections there are some instances of "incorrect" PR, but they're the only way to transition smoothly into the consistent patterns already established.

I can see where you're coming from with the running men, but I disagree in this case and think they fit quite well.

[Zybanthia]

I've stepped this song, just so you know, and I didn't have this problem at all, so there's more you can do with your PR to make sure you don't encounter this issue. You just chose to place things in a way that cornered you.

Originally Posted by behanjc

After reaching the right most arrow in a roll, you move back to the left even though the note is higher and continue the same pattern.

I know this; I explained it in my quote. But I've never seen anyone go one note backwards. For example, when you have a whole string of notes going higher and higher, you make rolls from left to right.

x---
-x--
--x-
---x
|
In this section, you have "lost" PR, but you have wrapped back to the beginning, indicating you are still going higher.
|
x---
-x--
--x-
---x

You didn't wrap back to the beginning. You just stuck it an arrow lower and called it a day.

[behanjc]

Well, I just don't always continue my upward progression to justify a downward movement, but I guess I'll just leave it at that, and to say that PR is not the most important thing in the world.

And yes I'm sure you can step it to alleviate this problem but no doubt you would create other problems. (Not things that you would necessarily see as problems)

[Zybanthia]

I totally agree, PR isn't the most important thing in the world. In fact PR can really screw the fun factor of a file up, especially when you're trying to layer jumps in there with the PR, and even make the jumps PR at the same time. It can become a real chore to play.

It's just that you wanted me to elaborate, so I did. I mean, if I'm going to elaborate for you in the future and then you're going to say "Oh but it's no big deal" then forget it, haha. Plus, it was in a section that was, by and large, PR. If the whole thing had been random, then that would be been something else entirely.

But yeah, I agree, PR isn't everything.

[Agent:Baby Jesus]

i use pr and my files arent boring :<

[Archelos]

Originally Posted by 0

And this is FFR, not guitar hero.

How is this supposed to make a point that PR doesn't belong? You do realize that this is a MUSIC game, right? If you're actually playing this game to get the feel of pushing arrows *to the music*, then PR is a great tool to give you that feel. It can make you really feel like you're playing a piano piece, or an epic guitar solo.

But if you're just mindlessly pushing arrows that are falling up or down a screen, then yeah I guess you would use that argument. Also, like he said:

Originally Posted by Zybanthia

PR isn't the most important thing in the world. In fact PR can really screw the fun factor of a file up

Obviously you don't use it all the time. You're not obligated to, but it can make a hell of a fun file. Also "fun factor" is different for everyone, some people might not think something is "awkward".

[cedolad]

Bringing this up randomly, but to me the beginning of On Conquest and Capture, seems a bit off sync. Anyone else feel this?

[Archelos]

Originally Posted by cedolad

Bringing this up randomly

Discussing files is what this thread's for bro

And I don't feel it's off sync any more than the rest of the file is (all seems a little early to me). I even got an early good in the stream somewhere, lol.

But nah, not for me.

[cedolad]

It just seems the jumps aren't following the start of the note, and hitting on the end or slight middle.

[bluguerrilla]

The notes are definitely late, by a frame or so.

The jumps are there because of the layering of guitar/piano. He had 48th grace notes there before but they were a tad awkward to play.

[cedolad]

Just seems really weird. It's the only reason I can't get a decent PA on it.