Rhythm versus FPS gamers

[MrRubix]

Please don't derail this thread -- it was an interesting discussion. Anyways, replying to Halo:




What do you mean by indifference? Indifference means not really preferring one or the other/not caring. I was just replying mainly to this part, saying that I disagree that someone who hasn't tried either would be a better gauge.

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Someone who hasn't tried either of these games is indifferent to each aspect and therefore can actually try and see whether not one is easier in comparison to the other.

But I also mentioned that learning curves were different -- if someone played an FPS for a bit versus a rhythm game, there may be an overwhelming majority in the short term even if that distribution were much different down the road simply because one was harder to get the hang of at first.

I am good at rhythm games and pretty good at FPS (much better at rhythm though), and I wouldn't say one's harder than the other for me. If I spent 10 years devoted to FPS playing, I'd probably be just as good. It's just that they both stress different skills, and it depends on whether or not your skillsets and potentials are capable of handling what's required to perform at an optimal level down the road.

[rajdaddy]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

Please don't derail this thread -- it was an interesting discussion. Anyways, replying to Halo:




What do you mean by indifference? Indifference means not really preferring one or the other/not caring. I was just replying mainly to this part, saying that I disagree that someone who hasn't tried either would be a better gauge.



But I also mentioned that learning curves were different -- if someone played an FPS for a bit versus a rhythm game, there may be an overwhelming majority in the short term even if that distribution were much different down the road simply because one was harder to get the hang of at first.

I am good at rhythm games and pretty good at FPS (much better at rhythm though), and I wouldn't say one's harder than the other for me. If I spent 10 years devoted to FPS playing, I'd probably be just as good. It's just that they both stress different skills, and it depends on whether or not your skillsets and potentials are capable of handling what's required to perform at an optimal level down the road.

Agreed, thread of the night for me.
Anyway, Halogen brought up a great point, playing FPS's on a high difficulty.
Me, I play both, but I cannot play ANY campaign on a difficulty higher then normal or medium whatever. But online, I do my fair share of pwning, I think playing online and playing legendary campaign takes different skills you know?
I think before this can even continue we should differentiate the skills needed for campaign and multiplayer, what takes more skill, and what skills we will be keeping in mind as this discussion continues.

[MrRubix]

Well I mean we can break down any hobby or skill down into subcomponents, but my point is that what is deemed easier or harder is always a function or what we just happen to have natural ability for. And, if we don't have the skills naturally, it depends on how good we are at targeting our weaknesses and limiting their influence while maximizing the effects of our strengths.

But if you want to dig even deeper, I mean, you could always ask "is the human mind more equipped for skill A versus skill B," where skill A may be conducive to rhythm playing and skill B may be useful for FPS (a skill being some kind of inherent mental or physical faculty).

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

Please don't derail this thread -- it was an interesting discussion. Anyways, replying to Halo:

What do you mean by indifference? Indifference means not really preferring one or the other/not caring. I was just replying mainly to this part, saying that I disagree that someone who hasn't tried either would be a better gauge.

Now that I think about it--it isn't the best of gauges because something they may be doing that isn't related to these two types of game my be indirectly helping them later. But...then how can you judge something like this? It'll just turn into an argument based off of opinions.

Originally Posted by MrRubix

But I also mentioned that learning curves were different -- if someone played an FPS for a bit versus a rhythm game, there may be an overwhelming majority in the short term even if that distribution were much different down the road simply because one was harder to get the hang of at first.

Which pretty much leads me back to what I just mentioned. Someone who is--say, a musician, I would think, is more capable of picking up a rhythm game because it requires the understanding of rhythms in comparison to the game. It's not ALWAYS the case but someone who already has experience that they can apply to a game would obviously give them an advantage.

Originally Posted by MrRubix

It's just that they both stress different skills, and it depends on whether or not your skillsets and potentials are capable of handling what's required to perform at an optimal level down the road.

To be perfectly honest, I can't play FPSs very well. It's probably because I picked up rhythm games way before I even attempted to get really serious at FPS games. And instead of me trying to fine tune where to stand in a particular level of Call of Duty, I'm trying to fine tune my foot technique in a game of ITG. It's all about personal preference. I'm seriously wondering if there's any way to answer the question brought up in the other thread.

[delossantosj_2]

well to me personally im semi decent at both.... so i think that when i was playing against someone that was better then me on call of duty 4 for the first time it really took me for a loop and it was hard.

when i find someone better then me on guitar hero.... im just suprised.

i guess what im trying to say is, when people are better then u at fps games. you get more competitive to be the best. when you paly rythem games like guitar hero... u know your not ever going to be the best (unless your rubix...)

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by delossantosj_2

i guess what im trying to say is, when people are better then u at fps games. you get more competitive to be the best. when you paly rythem games like guitar hero... u know your not ever going to be the best (unless your rubix...)

Wait, how does the type of game affect how good you want to be at a certain game?

You're saying it like FPSs have more competition than rhythm games. Sure, they aren't known/played as much, but rhythm games have big tournaments and hubs too.

[MrRubix]

I'm actually pretty bad at Guitar Hero, but I've only played it once or twice, really. I'm pretty hardwired into four-key play, two hands. Playing five keys on one hand just isn't appealing to me at all.

[delossantosj_2]

of course your good at 4 key.... but when it comes to "online play" i think fps games are much harder because people can be better then people *snap* just like that. i could play guitar hero all my life... the odds of my gold staring satchbox boogie are about 100000000000000 to 1. then theres that one dude who is so godly at guitar hero that they do it... in cod4 or counterstrike, its a constant battle for number 1

[PuRoDoMiNiCaNo]

Like other people have said, they really can't be compared. They're both completely different. Just in an FPS game, between single player and online there is a huge difference. To me, any single player game on the hardest difficulty, is a joke. But online you have to think a lot more and always be cautious of that "lucky" shot that anyone can get. Just with that the game stresses you differently. But I can't say too much for rhythm games because i just play them for fun.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by delossantosj_2

of course your good at 4 key.... but when it comes to "online play" i think fps games are much harder because people can be better then people *snap* just like that. i could play guitar hero all my life... the odds of my gold staring satchbox boogie are about 100000000000000 to 1. then theres that one dude who is so godly at guitar hero that they do it... in cod4 or counterstrike, its a constant battle for number 1

...I don't quite understand the point you're trying to prove.

[Patricoo]

Wait a second, whats the discussion here? Is it really about the games or the gamers that play them? Are you guys/gamers in general really so polarized to only play certain types, and that they classify themselves?

I'm just curious if there is a phenomenon of only playing certain genres that I don't know about.

If we're just comparing the genres in general, then what PuRoDoMiNiCaNo said is pretty true. Comparing genre is just opinion to the point of a useless argument. Like an argument of metal or rap being better. Just endless opinions and generalizations.

[OnixRose]

Originally Posted by Patricoo

Wait a second, whats the discussion here? Is it really about the games or the gamers that play them? Are you guys/gamers in general really so polarized to only play certain types, and that they classify themselves?

I'm just curious if there is a phenomenon of only playing certain genres that I don't know about.

If we're just comparing the genres in general, then what PuRoDoMiNiCaNo said is pretty true. Comparing genre is just opinion to the point of a useless argument. Like an argument of metal or rap being better. Just endless opinions and generalizations.

I think we're on which genre is more difficult to learn and excel at (didn't read the thread) but that too is very user specific so...

I'd say learning certain things in fps's would be pretty easy such as strategies and weapon spawn times. How ever there are a lot of aspects to an fps that would take time to develop like aim, handling game mechanics, and in the case of the strats I mentioned you'd have to play a certain game for awhile to know how to react based on different situations which are constantly changing in game.

Rhythm games take a while to get used to for some and require a decent amount of time for most to become acquainted with each individual game's timing window and such. In some cases there are physical boundaries that can occur such as strength in forearms or legs and, in the case of ddr, even cardiovascular and respiratory strength and endurance.

Both require different skills and (like everything) time to fully master or get a good grip on. But for the most part I'd say the main thing that would be difficult in fps are the situational differences. Rhythm each specific rhythm game plays the same every time you play it (with the exception of lag mods game changes etc), you just have get acquainted with the game you're playing.

So you could say fps is a tad harder because it requires a little bit more thinking in addition to the aiming and playing skills of a gamer, but again someone might have a natural affinity for fps and not for rhythm so it goes back to individual difference...plus all of you probably already are aware of these points. blah.

Edit: whoops not CT lol.

[Patricoo]

This might be an interesting test to do scientifically to see what kinds of games show the most amount of brain activity.

None of us here, in our porn watching, arrow killing ways have those capabilities though.

[MinaciousGrace]

this is like comparing chess and tetris

[JSH]

So is there anyone indifferent to FPS and rhythm based games to tell us an answer?
I guess it will be hard on an FFR forum but still...

I find FPS games to be extremely difficult, but all my other friends who do play FPS reasonably find rhythm games more difficult, most likely because they haven't tried rhythm as much or worked as hard.

But really why are we comparing the two?
shouldn't they be hard and or difficult in their own ways?
Of course it can also be argued that one may be easier or more preferable to one person compared to another, because of certain characteristics or tangibles.

[Patricoo]

Especially because both types of games can have their difficulty altered dramatically. In modern games, both FPS and Rhythm, can be set to "moron easy" or "no-life difficult".

Now if you want a difficult genre... RTS is totally up there!!

[-Fallen-]

I started playing Ghost Recon and FFR around the same time back in 2003ish so this is how it turned out for me at least.

FPS: Pointing + Clicking is, fairly easy to get used to. Two downsides when I was new, was being able to prefire and adapt to maps quickly, I had a bit of trouble memorizing but other than that, couple of weeks and I was scoring a positive kd ratio no problem. Secondly, the game was pretty terrible at the time, when Counter Strike came into my life and had better hitboxes and maps and I got a better computer, it was much easier to adapt.

Rhythm gaming (FFR in particular) was very hard for me but it was exceptionally more difficult to learn because of the old FFR timing window in it's first stages, made it impossible to get used to even though you knew you were on beat. At the time I didn't know how new it was so I never found out the timing window was actually just a piece of junk. I just played unregistered for a couple of months wondering why I never got better until I decided to become part of the community full time. Once the newer timing window was released I had an easier time playing and didn't mind putting more time learning different styles and getting comfortable.

Rhythm (DDR): I had only tried it once thinking it was dumb (this was right before finding FFR) so I didn't get good or bother caring. After playing a few months of FFR occasionally (few times a week with maybe and only a few basic AAA's at the time) I went straight to my local arcade one afternoon played some DDR for my first real attempts. First few attempts I played on Light, then I tried Standard then moved onto Heavy. Once I played Heavy, I stayed on Heavy and that was that, picked up DDR in no time. Within a few weeks I was SDG'ing songs on DDR and FC'ing Max300 LotM with some decent PA.

Basically, I came into both worlds with poor versions of both forms of games and didn't adapt very well to either, but if I had to say if someone picked up Counter Strike and then played some FFR/DDR/ITG or any Rhythm game today, they'd equally be able to compete at tournament level if they put the time in it.

Anybody can learn to point and click a mouse and memorize maps and in most cases if you're in decent shape and willing to build your cardio, I'm sure you could do great in a Rhythm game too.

Commitment is the only difference. Eventually your ability to improve will feel like it's going nowhere, but it's just the competition settling in and the realization that "somewhere someone is better than me no matter how good I'll get".

[who_cares973]

fallen pretty much summed up what i was going to say

[masuat]

Normally I'm a fan of debates like this, but this comparison is strange: with regards to skill and learning curve etc, FPS and rhythm games are very different.

Originally Posted by OnixRose

I think we're on which genre is more difficult to learn and excel at (didn't read the thread) but that too is very user specific so...

I'd say learning certain things in fps's would be pretty easy such as strategies and weapon spawn times. How ever there are a lot of aspects to an fps that would take time to develop like aim, handling game mechanics, and in the case of the strats I mentioned you'd have to play a certain game for awhile to know how to react based on different situations which are constantly changing in game.

Rhythm games take a while to get used to for some and require a decent amount of time for most to become acquainted with each individual game's timing window and such. In some cases there are physical boundaries that can occur such as strength in forearms or legs and, in the case of ddr, even cardiovascular and respiratory strength and endurance.

Both require different skills and (like everything) time to fully master or get a good grip on. But for the most part I'd say the main thing that would be difficult in fps are the situational differences. Rhythm each specific rhythm game plays the same every time you play it (with the exception of lag mods game changes etc), you just have get acquainted with the game you're playing.

So you could say fps is a tad harder because it requires a little bit more thinking in addition to the aiming and playing skills of a gamer, but again someone might have a natural affinity for fps and not for rhythm so it goes back to individual difference...plus all of you probably already are aware of these points. blah.

Edit: not whoops CT lol.

+rep. Apparently I was just about to produce an echo in here... my thoughts exactly, especially regarding situational differences in FPS and physical boundaries in rhythm.

The main factors between rhythm and FPS are complete opposites: physical versus mental.

For rhythm games, you usually have to be physically "able" to play to your full potential. ex. "warming up", cold fingers hindering play, and as mentioned the strength of your own body. Physical ability is more important than factors of the game because the game stays relatively consistent. Say if there are mods, you are the one that sets them. If there's a fast bpm change in a song, you will remember it on subsequent plays. There may be changes and unpredictable things, but for the most part you can overcome them with repetition. Everything else does not change and luck is never involved. This makes a player's ability to be good at the game rely solely the player's skill.

FPS does not put as much emphasis on physical ability. Sure it takes a good hand to get a headshot, but rarely do you have to click the LB within x seconds or be able to drill W x times. Knowledge and experience of the game is more important. The player who knows the map better will probably be able to flank the player who has perfect aim. By simply having the ability to move in 3 dimensions, you have an experience that is already far more variable than in a rhythm game. Throw in the radius of a grenade blast, your current ping, and the possibilities of where every other player is and what they're doing, and you have something that's infinitely more complex, and also less in your control, than a rhythm game. To be good at FPS, you need a combination of skill, wisdom, and even luck.

Some days I just can't play Stepmania. My fingers will be freezing and slow to react. I know I'm not playing at my normal potential so I decide to play Call of Duty instead. My fingers are in bad condition, but my mind isn't. I still remember where to throw my GRENATAAAAAA to hit the first chokepoint, and it takes me but one middle click to do it.

[MrGiggles]

My arm hurts like a bitch when I play some hard song on SM.

CoD4 also makes my arm hurt like a bitch but that's usually because I hit something flailing about in my impotent rage.

In conclusion video games are hurtful and damaging to society as a whole. Rhythm gamers are nerds and FPS gamers shoot up schools. They both lose peace rofl

ps games don't require skill. EDIT: wait hang on. I'm having trouble putting this concept into words, I'll try to edit it in when I figure it out. =(