Is veganism wrong?

[supermousie]

For millions of years, early man hunted and killed animals for meat, bones for tools, and hides for shelter. No sympathy was shown to the animals slaughtered, as they could have been the difference between life and starvation. Because of this fight to the top(...?) of the food chain, the human body has adapted to an omnivorous diet, in which meat is a major component of.

Today, here in 2011, animal rights groups such as PETA and the Animal Defense League fight for the "ethical treatment of animals", and if they could, they would try to get the world to stave off their reliance on meat entirely. There is a major factor that would make them want to meet this goal, and it is because millions of animals are being slaughtered to drive the meat industry to feed 'normal' people- that being amplified due to recent controversy surrounding animal cruelty being practiced in farms and whatnot (see pmonibuvdi23ybgewy's thread in CC titled Why so cruel?)

I do understand why people choose to go down the vegan route, but some just go and make a big fuss out of eating what their ancestors have been eating for so long. Instead of protesting and getting in other people's way, staying quiet is a great way of not being like a Pharisee. Most vegans I know are rather jolly reasonable, and they won't drill me with facts and figures as to why the meat pie in my hand is killing me.
I can see where they're coming from- I love animals, they love me. And sometimes I do think the lamb chops on my plate were once cute, little fluffy baby sheep.

And then there are the health issues associated with veganism. Lack of protein, calcium, iiron, zinc and other vitamins and minerals definitely leads to malnutrition unless supplements containing these things are taken. I read somewhere pregnant vegans are at risk of having a malnourished baby, and death can easily result.

Umm. It's actually very late, and I'm not thinking straight. (Hey, that rhymes!) If I contradict myself, seem far too biased (I can even tell in my semi-sozzled state) or I'm not making sense, fear not, for I shall fix this post tomorrow or later this week. I needed to get this off my chest.

In the meanwhile, if you can get the jist of my incoherent hash of a CT post, please, share your views!

[Patashu]

Here's the huge thing about veganism: Feeding grain to an animal like a cow is hundreds to thousands of times less energy efficient than just eating the grain yourself. If everyone swapped to veganism in a somehow completely successful endeavour the carbon footprint of the Earth would shrink, just like that.

It's not easy to be vegan, though, there are lots of proteins and such that you'll miss out on without a well balanced diet. It's not necessarily possible for everyone.

[infinity.]

10% of energy is carried between each trophic level.

[vro]

Alright, I'm just going to give my honest opinion about this. I believe vegans are just huge attention whores. If you're vegetarian, thats fine, as those people usually only do that for health reasons, but the whole vegan thing is ridiculous. I understand having a love for animals(I think they're adorable), but there's nothing wrong with eating them. Sure, you shouldn't abuse them, but its just a cycle of life to eat them. There are plenty of animals in the animal kingdom who eat other animals, so what's the difference between them and us? After all, we are mammals. Looking past that, as already mentioned, it is extremely hard to be a healthy vegan; you practically have to be rich to get what you need in your body. If you are vegan, fine, I'm not going to hate you or anything, but I do find veganism to be extremely stupid.

[darkshark]

Originally Posted by vro

vegans are just huge attention whores.

Stopped reading right there.

The vegan lifestyle does not have to be pushed onto anyone else, it's a personal choice. The people you know are just assholes. It's still perfectly possible to live and stay healthy as a vegan, you may have to take supplements to get what your body needs, and there's nothing wrong with taking supplements.

I do agree with the OP...humans are built as an omnivorous species...but who's to say what percentage of each side of the fence you should be on? Vegan is possibly pushing it a little overboard, though. The benefits of eating things like egg and fish are too great. I've gone through stints of being a vegetarian, not particularly as far as pure vegan because I like dairy too much. Currently I'll eat bird (chicken, turkey) and fish...no other meats at all.

[Thatskier]

Originally Posted by Infinity.

10% of energy is carried between each trophic level.

-Claps- Looks like someone passed there 9th grade biology class.


Its fine being a vegan, you just have to make sure you take extra supplements especially protein... great way to get it is through nuts.

[alloyus]

So expensive to eat healthy food >.> But if you wanna be a vegan then go for it, it's a personal choice that you yourself make based on your beliefs which doesn't really hurt anyone (there are plenty of other people to buy meat for the meat industry).As long as you're not pushing your beliefs on others, I really don't see a problem with it.

[vro]

Originally Posted by darkshark

The vegan lifestyle does not have to be pushed onto anyone else, it's a personal choice. The people you know are just assholes.

I do understand that in the end it is just a personal choice, but its the fact that are are so many vegans who do push it(Example, PETA making a big deal out of it all over the place). I respect people's choices, its no different then the ordeal between gays and straights, but its just the fact that the extreme majority of vegans act like they are higher in society or some crap like that.

[irionman]

I honestly don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this. If someone wants to be vegan, let them, it don't affect you. However, if they start preaching to you, then it's wrong. Personally, I don't like vegans. I think their logic is flawed. But then again, I don't really run into many of them, so I could care less what they eat.

[zolaric]

I once went to a vegan restaurant not knowing what vegan meant (I actually thought it was related to Vegas). The food did not taste good. I'll be sticking to my chicken. I have nothing against vegans, though.

[Patashu]

Originally Posted by Infinity.

10% of energy is carried between each trophic level.

Ah okay, point still stands though, when you think about how many people eat meat that would be a -huge- cut in energy expenditure

[Syhto]

Well, you don't just not eat animal products when you're vegan, you also usually eat all organic, which means no pesticides or growth hormones. Frankly, I don't see how you could think their 'logic' is 'flawed' because it usually only boils down to a few simple points. 1) They want fresh food with no preservatives, which is undeniably healthier. 2) They have a desire to live in a sustainable way. That means reasonable portions of locally grown food, and less emphasis on meat.

That being said, veganism *could* be considered a fad, but it really isn't. It's just a mesh of vegetarianism and going organic, which are both healthier alternatives to a typical western diet that is chock full of red meat and processed fats, enriched and bleached flours, etc. There are multiple middle men between us and our food that we don't need. The new 'green' movement is all for these home gardens, local farmer's markets, etc. There should be a rise in our food consciousness, because food is medicine. And it is VITAL that you have adequate nutrition.

We have more in common with herbivores than carnivores, and our body thrives READILY on raw fruits, veggies and nuts. It lives just perfectly, even if you don't get protein from flesh, and even if you get below the recommended amount of protein. In fact, I would argue it runs better on a low to medium protein diet. (Not recommended for athletes, although I know PLENTY of vegan athletes that are super trim and muscular.)

Ignore PETA, their meaning is good but they're pushing an old agenda. People aren't going to suddenly start caring about animals, but they may just start caring about themselves again. And that's when this comes in. Veganism can be extreme, but I suppose desperate times call for desperate measures to some. (It really isn't all that hard though.) I've been eating all organic food for awhile now myself, and I definitely promote it.

I'm not vegetarian though, and I'm definitely not vegan. I have a lot of friends and role models that are vegan, and if anything it's a more educated and tactful approach to eating than any other floating around. It's alright to have fatty foods sometimes, your body does like fat, and it does like complex carbs, etc. But we eat that shit way too much. If you aren't eating some raw veggies or fruits everyday you're likely already suffering from vitamin deficiencies. Meat only has a couple of notable vitamins in it, and those can all be found in plants and legumes. As long as you have some protein, iron, calcium, and Vitamin B12 you're pretty much set.

Vegan isn't wrong, it's just a lifestyle. And a damn healthy one. Meat is still good for you of course, but try to cut back on the red meat and eat more fish. If you don't have a lot of time to put into your diet then going vegan probably won't work. You should still eat in a balanced manner. Bam

[twitchywindowbreaker]

Let's say America is the Heaviest Country in the world One Reason is because there isn't enough Vegans nothing wrong with eating Healthy and not wanting to be a fat blob

[MrGiggles]

IS BEING GAY WRONG
IS VEGANISM WRONG
IS SLEEPING ON YOUR SIDE WRONG

Why does CT have the absolute worst thread titles?

It's just a mesh of vegetarianism and going organic, which are both healthier alternatives to a typical western diet that is chock full of red meat and processed fats, enriched and bleached flours, etc.

I'd argue with this here, but mostly it's just some lame splitting hairs kinda argument bs so feel free to ignore this

'organic' is a kinda annoying buzzword with a legal definition that varies between places and is not necessarily better or healthier. It generally means that no synthetic shit was used to produce the food, but synthetic shit in food is not inherently bad.

Also, it's perfectly possible and probably very common to produce non-organic produce that adheres perfectly to vegan standards so I wouldn't describe veganism as a mesh of vegetarianism and going organic.

[Patashu]

no way is sleeping on your side wrong

sleeping on your back (or worse - your front) is the devil's work

[virus003]

Originally Posted by twitchywindowbreaker

Let's say America is the Heaviest Country in the world One Reason is because there isn't enough Vegans nothing wrong with eating Healthy and not wanting to be a fat blob

yeah definitely doesn't have to do with the population



this post really pissed me off

you think that vegans are vegans because they don't want to be fat, you're wrong, that seems like a slim chance why, most people don't like the slaughtering concept, they've researched it, and they found out what they're eating, they don't want that in their body. i will admit it's a pretty disturbing concept, but ehh i eat meat anyways.


second, quit assuming all meat eaters are ****ing fat, honestly, makes you look like such an ass because you think that, besides, going vegan means you don't get the nutrients that meat give you, it's called protein, ya?

i'm going to assume you're one of those foreign assholes from canada and you think you're country is all pretty pretty perfect. countries have their own problems. why don't you blame the fast food chains for even being created instead of the people who eat it, fast food is in fact addicting

edit: haha you live in the us what a funny thing of you to say, how patriotic

[bmah]

Your post is also very offensive, virus. The obesity rate in Canada is also climbing, and is unfortunately a similar trend (on a slightly lesser scale) to the US. Instead of devising gross generalities, please make a quality retort for once.

edit: Erm, blame fast food chains because you can't help yourself being addicted to them? lol
In which case, I must praise the vegetarians for having self-control in that respect.

[DossarLX ODI]

The only "wrong" thing would be making those slaughtered animals go to waste. Not eating meat doesn't prevent animals from being killed - it even happens in the wild all the time.

You can eat what you want, but if you're at a restaurant and offered some meat, it would be rather disrespectful to just deny it entirely just so you can be consistent and worry about sticking with a no-meat policy. I myself don't eat that much meat; in my view, being a vegan is like saying "oh I will quit this forever and never come back to it". Well congratulations, now you constantly have to worry about it since if you do want to come back to it or there is a situation where it comes again, you'll have to consider your oath. WELP.

[bmah]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

You can eat what you want, but if you're at a restaurant and offered some meat, it would be rather disrespectful to just deny it entirely just so you can be consistent and worry about sticking with a no-meat policy.

This is Anthony Bourdain's reasoning as to why he hates vegetarians lol. When it comes to travelling though, I think this is quite important, however.

[vro]

Originally Posted by twitchywindowbreaker

Let's say America is the Heaviest Country in the world One Reason is because there isn't enough Vegans nothing wrong with eating Healthy and not wanting to be a fat blob

See, this is what I mean. If you're vegan, fine, but what gives you the right to say something stupid like this? Not including the reference to foreigners, I'm gonna have to pretty much agree with virus. Eating meat doesn't make you fat; meat gives you protein. What makes you fat? Candy, Cake, Soda, Ice Cream, all the other popular shit in America that tons of people love to eat because, dare I say it, it tastes good. Like I said, if you're vegan, then good for you, its your choice, but quit acting like you are higher in society because of it, because you're not.