You know, Ive been thinking...

**3lijah** · 02-12-2014, 02:29 PM

Ive been thinking... Ive had/seen/heard multiple discussions with multiple people about science versus the belief of a higher being. One of the things I realized was that "some" of those people were a little trigger-happy with derogatory and uncalled for comments towards individuals who do believe in a higher being. But why? Why is throwing insults a viable option towards stating an opinion? When you do that, you are basically spitting in that persons' face and stomping their beliefs to the ground, shitting on that persons' way of life and telling them they are wrong. That being said, a lot of events in history resulted in bloodshed solely because of religion, Im not ignoring that. But ridiculing one's beliefs? That's ignorance in itself. Ignorant because of the result of hate from what would always would have been simply a discussion from two different stand-points. This is coming from someone who is one of those believers. Everyone accepts a certain something, a very certain something, into their hearts in their own way. Every living human being on this planet walks only one path: their own. What we learn while we are alive carves what we become, science and religion are two of those things.

What do you guys think?

cedolad · 02-12-2014, 02:48 PM

Most people who are against opinions of a higher being are often arrogant.

**Hakulyte** · 02-12-2014, 03:08 PM

Let's prove that 2 = 3

1 + 1 = 2
2 - 2 = 0
3 - 3 = 0
2 - 2 = 3 - 3
2(1 - 1) = 3(1 - 1)
Remove (1-1) on both sides.
2 = 3
If you didn't knew that you couldn't divide by zero, you may have wrongly believed that 2 = 3.

No one wants ambiguity to happen. So, people hates on other people when they try to believe in things they can't prove.

Izzy · 02-12-2014, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3lijah

Every living human being on this planet walks only one path: their own.

I await the day this becomes true. Consequently this means that parents can't force beliefs on their children and would likely be the end of religion and other radical beliefs with no basis in todays reality.

**Arkuski** · 02-12-2014, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy

I await the day this becomes true. Consequently this means that parents can't force beliefs on their children and would likely be the end of religion and other radical beliefs with no basis in todays reality.

Guess what I'm going to raise my kids to be Catholic and you're going to hate them too.

Izzy · 02-12-2014, 03:25 PM

Hate is a strong word. It is more of a disappointment in how unproductive it is to society and progression.

**Arkuski** · 02-12-2014, 03:50 PM

Define progression

Izzy · 02-12-2014, 03:58 PM

Increasing the standard of living, life expectancy and technological advancements.

Would also be good to get closer to a world peace which won't be possible if the majority of people still hold onto irrational radical views. Everyone will still have their problems and difference, but at least it could be based on logic and reasoning.

**Ohaider** · 02-12-2014, 03:58 PM

there are always going to be factors that halt or diminish societal progression. Thinking religion is the sole blame for all this diminished advancing is just as arrogant as making fun of the gay kid on the playground. not saying people here blame religion utterly and completely for all stupidity or restraint in the past, but do consider the other possibilities

**stargroup100** · 02-12-2014, 09:42 PM

A lot of this has to do with how people think and society norms. Everyone has different philosophies, and when there is a conflict of interest, there is a chance that ignorance will take place. It goes both ways. There are nonreligious people who insult religious people, just as there are religious people that insult nonreligious people, and for mostly the same reasons.

People that insult those who believe in a higher being tend to have the philosophy that believing or not believing in these beings have no impact or negative impact on our lives, and/or that we should look at reality objectively without the idea of the supernatural, and that those that do look at the supernatural might be gullible, stupid, etc.

For example, one of the common issues is this: Yes, religion is not all bad, and for some people there is a benefit that they can't otherwise get, and it does have cultural significance, but that doesn't give it the right to invade other areas, such as our government and our science curriculum. That ends up imposing religion onto other people, and a lot of people get angry, and rightfully so. But the ones that insult religion probably generalize and stereotype religious people in this way.

This phenomenon is never going to cease to exist, as there will always be people that are more rational and naturalistic and not accepting of the supernatural, while others practice religion to an extreme. On both sides of the argument, each side thinks it is right and the other wrong. And when you combine that with the fact that many people feel the need to express negativity to those who believe something they think is ridiculous and wrong, well you get a bunch of trouble.

**Tidus810** · 02-12-2014, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy

Increasing the standard of living, life expectancy and technological advancements.

A guy comes along with an amazing, fool-proof cure for HIV/AIDS and saves millions of lives.

Do you say "Wow, that's amazing, I can't believe the number of lives that guy is going to save!" or do you go "Wait a second, what are his religious beliefs...?"?

just sayin

Izzy · 02-12-2014, 10:54 PM

No idea what your point is.

**stargroup100** · 02-12-2014, 10:59 PM

He's trying to say that a person's religious views doesn't affect their potential accomplishments. The best scientists don't have to be nonreligious.

And then he's trying to use that as a rebuttal for your reason as to why religion is not tolerated.

But I think your point is that's the reason why some people don't tolerate religion, not that it's a valid reason to insult religion.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

**Tidus810** · 02-13-2014, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stargroup100

He's trying to say that a person's religious views doesn't affect their potential accomplishments. The best scientists don't have to be nonreligious.

And then he's trying to use that as a rebuttal for your reason as to why religion is not tolerated.

But I think your point is that's the reason why some people don't tolerate religion, not that it's a valid reason to insult religion.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Right. Except in his little exchange with Arkuski, Izzy said that he is/would be disappointed if Arkuski raised his potential children as Catholic because they would not contribute to society or advance technology...

**d4u7211** · 02-13-2014, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedolad

Most people who are against opinions of a higher being are often arrogant.

I dunno, I've seen it go both ways, it all has to do with the fanatics dewd

**Reincarnate** · 02-13-2014, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3lijah

Ive been thinking... Ive had/seen/heard multiple discussions with multiple people about science versus the belief of a higher being. One of the things I realized was that "some" of those people were a little trigger-happy with derogatory and uncalled for comments towards individuals who do believe in a higher being. But why? Why is throwing insults a viable option towards stating an opinion? When you do that, you are basically spitting in that persons' face and stomping their beliefs to the ground, shitting on that persons' way of life and telling them they are wrong. That being said, a lot of events in history resulted in bloodshed solely because of religion, Im not ignoring that. But ridiculing one's beliefs? That's ignorance in itself. Ignorant because of the result of hate from what would always would have been simply a discussion from two different stand-points. This is coming from someone who is one of those believers. Everyone accepts a certain something, a very certain something, into their hearts in their own way. Every living human being on this planet walks only one path: their own. What we learn while we are alive carves what we become, science and religion are two of those things.

What do you guys think?

How would you feel if I told you that I adamantly believed that the earth was flat? And that I think your kids should learn flat-earth theory in the science classroom? And that I should be free to enter public office and divert funding away from important things to support flat-earth projects and promotions? Or that, for some reason, because the Earth is flat, it means I can mistreat and legally discriminate against certain kinds of people?

You'd think I was utterly insane. We all know the Earth is not flat, so this example is easy to understand.

However, as you extend the analogy further, it gets into areas that are less well-known. Everyone understands the Earth is round, but not everyone understands how evolution works. Not everyone knows how our Earth was formed, or how basic physics work, or that we are all born out of stardust, or what statistics and logic imply in various contexts, etc. It becomes less intuitive, but plenty of people do still understand all of this.

And so imagine how frustrated these people are to watch everyone around them believe in things that are either outright wrong or incredibly improbable, especially when better explanations exist for all of it. Hearing people say "it's just my opinion!" is frustrating because at some point, it's not your opinion if your opinion is, frankly, wrong.

Of course, telling people that they need to learn more / get educated in the underlying subjects is seen as arrogant. So in many ways, it's a lose/lose. You either have to explain a huge collection of complex frameworks to people who have little exposure to that kind of thinking (and have it fall on deaf ears), or be labeled arrogant for telling them that they are not educated enough to understand why their arguments are poor.

So, in using the analogy, it's a lot like dealing with someone who thinks the Earth is flat. There's just no polite way to tell them that their stance is untenable, especially if they're heavily invested in it emotionally. Some people simply don't care. Even if they can understand the counter-arguments on a rational level, sometimes it's just easier to keep on believing in a higher power like they were before. This is especially easy to do since unfalsifiable beliefs are, well, unfalsifiable. But an atheist would say that if your belief is unfalsifiable, why are you believing in it in the first place? There are infinitely many unfalsifiable beliefs to hold -- so why this one?

**Pseudo Enigma** · 02-13-2014, 09:26 PM

...my opinion on this topic changes all the time.

Even if it's wrong to carry around a security blanket, some kids are allowed to. God just seems to be humanity's security blanket, and if you try to take that away from them they will fight you tooth and nail. Sure the extremists do really bad things, but other than that, is it really hurting anyone to let them believe in such things? Whatever makes one happy is a good thing IMO.

Sure it's wrong, but it's not like the answer isn't there for them to grab at any time. They can live in a delusion and be happy, or they can accept that there likely isn't a god. It's entirely up to them though, because of free will.

If you can't accept the above, then that's another problem all together.

**Reincarnate** · 02-13-2014, 09:43 PM

That delusion is rarely self-contained. It tends to spill over into other facets of life that hinders various types of social/economic/political/technological/scientific progress and can cause lots of damage.

**Pseudo Enigma** · 02-13-2014, 09:54 PM

Well it's a security blanket. They're carrying it for a reason. Likely they haven't accepted death and can't cope with it. I'd call that fairly normal. But because of that they cling to a delusion and try to force other people into it. Even their way of thinking changes.

I'd go so far as to call it a mass mental illness.

**Cavernio** · 02-15-2014, 04:33 AM

We all live in delusion all the time. Our minds and senses are far from omniscient. Our capacity for knowledge is finite.
People who are religious FEEL religious. That feeling isn't a delusion even if it's based on a lie.

02-12-2014, 02:29 PM	#1
3lijah This ma coo coo face Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 33 Posts: 885	You know, Ive been thinking... Ive been thinking... Ive had/seen/heard multiple discussions with multiple people about science versus the belief of a higher being. One of the things I realized was that "some" of those people were a little trigger-happy with derogatory and uncalled for comments towards individuals who do believe in a higher being. But why? Why is throwing insults a viable option towards stating an opinion? When you do that, you are basically spitting in that persons' face and stomping their beliefs to the ground, shitting on that persons' way of life and telling them they are wrong. That being said, a lot of events in history resulted in bloodshed solely because of religion, Im not ignoring that. But ridiculing one's beliefs? That's ignorance in itself. Ignorant because of the result of hate from what would always would have been simply a discussion from two different stand-points. This is coming from someone who is one of those believers. Everyone accepts a certain something, a very certain something, into their hearts in their own way. Every living human being on this planet walks only one path: their own. What we learn while we are alive carves what we become, science and religion are two of those things. What do you guys think? __________________ BEST AAAs: Fluttershy (Monster Mix), S.E.B. in B.E.D., EHHS, Dreadnought [Heavy], .357 Magnum, Destination of the Heart, Oops, Boot, Puzzle, Colorful Course, BLACKFLAGS: Spaceman, A FLOWER GARDEN, Paraclete, Just Why, Pussy Pump, Future Destination BEST SDGs: Casino fire Kotomi-chan(7-0-0-1), Shitsubou Choco(7-0-0-0) Adventures of Lolo(7-0-0-3), Louder!! Louder!!!! Louder!!!!!!(3-0-0-1), Great Battleship(3-0-0-0), Shatterscape (Bexarametric Remix)(5-0-0-1)

02-12-2014, 02:48 PM	#2
cedolad moonchild~ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: . Age: 30 Posts: 6,879	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... Most people who are against opinions of a higher being are often arrogant. __________________

02-12-2014, 03:08 PM	#3
Hakulyte the Haku Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 35 Posts: 4,522	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... Let's prove that 2 = 3 1 + 1 = 2 2 - 2 = 0 3 - 3 = 0 2 - 2 = 3 - 3 2(1 - 1) = 3(1 - 1) Remove (1-1) on both sides. 2 = 3 If you didn't knew that you couldn't divide by zero, you may have wrongly believed that 2 = 3. No one wants ambiguity to happen. So, people hates on other people when they try to believe in things they can't prove. Last edited by Hakulyte; 02-12-2014 at 03:26 PM..

02-12-2014, 03:25 PM	#6
Izzy Snek Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas Age: 34 Posts: 9,192	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... Hate is a strong word. It is more of a disappointment in how unproductive it is to society and progression.

02-12-2014, 03:58 PM	#8
Izzy Snek Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas Age: 34 Posts: 9,192	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... Increasing the standard of living, life expectancy and technological advancements. Would also be good to get closer to a world peace which won't be possible if the majority of people still hold onto irrational radical views. Everyone will still have their problems and difference, but at least it could be based on logic and reasoning.

02-12-2014, 03:58 PM	#9
Ohaider FFR Veteran Join Date: Jun 2012 Age: 28 Posts: 2,893	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... there are always going to be factors that halt or diminish societal progression. Thinking religion is the sole blame for all this diminished advancing is just as arrogant as making fun of the gay kid on the playground. not saying people here blame religion utterly and completely for all stupidity or restraint in the past, but do consider the other possibilities __________________

02-12-2014, 09:42 PM	#10
stargroup100 behanjc & me are <3'ers Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,051	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... A lot of this has to do with how people think and society norms. Everyone has different philosophies, and when there is a conflict of interest, there is a chance that ignorance will take place. It goes both ways. There are nonreligious people who insult religious people, just as there are religious people that insult nonreligious people, and for mostly the same reasons. People that insult those who believe in a higher being tend to have the philosophy that believing or not believing in these beings have no impact or negative impact on our lives, and/or that we should look at reality objectively without the idea of the supernatural, and that those that do look at the supernatural might be gullible, stupid, etc. For example, one of the common issues is this: Yes, religion is not all bad, and for some people there is a benefit that they can't otherwise get, and it does have cultural significance, but that doesn't give it the right to invade other areas, such as our government and our science curriculum. That ends up imposing religion onto other people, and a lot of people get angry, and rightfully so. But the ones that insult religion probably generalize and stereotype religious people in this way. This phenomenon is never going to cease to exist, as there will always be people that are more rational and naturalistic and not accepting of the supernatural, while others practice religion to an extreme. On both sides of the argument, each side thinks it is right and the other wrong. And when you combine that with the fact that many people feel the need to express negativity to those who believe something they think is ridiculous and wrong, well you get a bunch of trouble. __________________ Rhythm Simulation Guide Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome. Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music Last edited by stargroup100; 02-12-2014 at 09:45 PM..

02-12-2014, 10:54 PM	#12
Izzy Snek Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas Age: 34 Posts: 9,192	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... No idea what your point is.

02-12-2014, 10:59 PM	#13
stargroup100 behanjc & me are <3'ers Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,051	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... He's trying to say that a person's religious views doesn't affect their potential accomplishments. The best scientists don't have to be nonreligious. And then he's trying to use that as a rebuttal for your reason as to why religion is not tolerated. But I think your point is that's the reason why some people don't tolerate religion, not that it's a valid reason to insult religion. Correct me if I'm wrong. __________________ Rhythm Simulation Guide Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome. Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music Last edited by stargroup100; 02-12-2014 at 11:01 PM..

02-13-2014, 09:26 PM	#17
Pseudo Enigma ごめんなさい　(/ω＼) Join Date: Aug 2012 Age: 28 Posts: 2,290	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... ...my opinion on this topic changes all the time. Even if it's wrong to carry around a security blanket, some kids are allowed to. God just seems to be humanity's security blanket, and if you try to take that away from them they will fight you tooth and nail. Sure the extremists do really bad things, but other than that, is it really hurting anyone to let them believe in such things? Whatever makes one happy is a good thing IMO. Sure it's wrong, but it's not like the answer isn't there for them to grab at any time. They can live in a delusion and be happy, or they can accept that there likely isn't a god. It's entirely up to them though, because of free will. If you can't accept the above, then that's another problem all together.

02-13-2014, 09:43 PM	#18
Reincarnate x'); DROP TABLE FFR;-- Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 6,332	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... That delusion is rarely self-contained. It tends to spill over into other facets of life that hinders various types of social/economic/political/technological/scientific progress and can cause lots of damage.

02-13-2014, 09:54 PM	#19
Pseudo Enigma ごめんなさい　(/ω＼) Join Date: Aug 2012 Age: 28 Posts: 2,290	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... Well it's a security blanket. They're carrying it for a reason. Likely they haven't accepted death and can't cope with it. I'd call that fairly normal. But because of that they cling to a delusion and try to force other people into it. Even their way of thinking changes. I'd go so far as to call it a mass mental illness.

02-15-2014, 04:33 AM	#20
Cavernio sunshine and rainbows Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 41 Posts: 1,987	Re: You know, Ive been thinking... We all live in delusion all the time. Our minds and senses are far from omniscient. Our capacity for knowledge is finite. People who are religious FEEL religious. That feeling isn't a delusion even if it's based on a lie.

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