FFR, i am at a crossroads in my life. Need some opinions.

[Mollocephalus]

I'll start from the assumption that none of you knows me really well, and i never really talked about my personal life on here. The last period has been pretty rough, culminating in something that has happened tonight which shakes me quite a bit.

Let me explain: In 2009, i was studying at college and my father proposed me to open a graphic design and print studio together. At first, it was supposed to be a part time job for me while i kept studying - he would manage it the rest of the time. After some weeks, it became clear it was impossible to do both at the same time, so i dropped uni to work full time. This job started with great premises! We opened a studio in the center of the city i live in, and started to get known around. I love this endeavoir, there's no job like another one, it's got creativity, variety, and a certain degree of freedom of expression. I spent every day of the last 4 years living with it, however things did not go so well after a while. As you may know there's a worldwide financial crisis going on, and since Italy has always had a shaky ground, thanks to both its inane leaders (laughed at by the entire globe) and the people who ultimately crave for that kind of leadership (i guess we get what we deserve!) things have been going down a lot. While we experienced a small increment in earnings through these years, tax increments surpassed them by quite a while. We lost some customers too, thanks to a massive closedown of businesses, right now it's ~20k a day which close down, an absurd amount for a small country like this. In the end, after so much hardships to barely reach a balance between expenses and earnings, making for around a year some little money each month (by little i mean far less than minimum wage), from the start of 2013 that little money flow has stopped completely. We can only pay off expenses, and that's it, not very cool considering there are major tax increases coming up.

So this brings anxiety and conflicts inside the workplace, and arguments about the fact that what i do is never good enough, and never enough at all. My father makes plans which all rely on my execution, overlapping them constantly. I am saddened, demotivated, without any money saved at all and still, i am in debt with my father since he spent nearly all his savings on this adventure. Today we argued once again and he prompted me to do more, believe in this or leave altogether. He seems to believe that we should keep doing this even if we make no living out of it, just because he's convinced this could work through the internet or other mediums. But the thing is, i'm exhausted, on the verge of a nervous breakdown and can't take it anymore. I'm probably going to leave, both the work and the city, if not the country. But first i thought about sharing my experience with you. Maybe someone here has good advice on a situation like this and/or has lived one.

What do you think, FFR?

[Oni-Paranoia]

I'm honestly speechless and just wish you the best. It's getting rough out there and there's more problems than solutions.

The only advice I can give, is to tell you to look at family members and take advantage of whatever benefits they may have. A place to stay for cheap so you can save or maybe help you with a part-time job that's less stressful (or at least out of your field) for the time being. Not much, but I hope everything goes right.

EDIT: The U.S. isn't that great of a place. Work is tough to find here in New England. Only pro is that min. wage is $8.75 I believe, but even that doesn't help when an apartment costs 1,100+ just for renting out space.

[25thhour]

Come to Canada. Get a job in the oil patch, make bank, get citizenship and go to school here.

[top]

damn, shit really isn't going well with no hope in sight...

i'm not very knowledgeable on this sort of thing, but i can wish you luck!

Best wishes to you man, may life not suck anymore~

[Untimely Friction]

This is exactly how my dad and I are over our photography business, cept 2 years and you actually get clients :L We've reached a brick wall and it's called my hand and I'm moving out and going back to school, I can sympathise heavily with your situation, and would like to congratulate you on at least 4 years of SOMETHING, we've been homeless twice since starting our business and had less than 10 sales in 2 years... yet he carries on and demands more of me when I simply can't do it... I suggest despite him being your father you attempt to finish school, as you need that BIG TIME, You need a fall back point for when businesses fail and you may have made that mistake when you dropped out, school school school school school, then business

[Mollocephalus]

I am almost 25, finishing school is out of the question. Besides, i don't need any degree cause at least these years formed me in various areas of graphic design, photography, and digital printing process. I know the supports and the right manufacturers for everything concerning print, promotion and art applied to the former. My portfolio, which i plan to expand further once i'm outta here, is a good enough business card (at least here in Italy) - and i could always work as a freelance graphic designer and photographer.

[V-Ormix]

All I can say much like everyone else is best of luck to you... You just got to meet the right people at the right time btw which ultimately means you have to be in the right place too so I think your going in the right direction. you'll figure it out man!

[04im]

there aren't many options really

if you choose to stay in italy
1) you&your father work hard for no result - no question about the economy, it's going down in italy

2) you say no to working with your father and look for your own job in italy - this turns out badly because not only did you not finish your degree, the economy is also garbage

if you choose to leave italy alone:
you'll still have a hard time getting a good new job because you do not have a college degree, but your work experience has something to show for it
then if you fail to find a reliable/stable job within a reasonable amount of time, since you've left your parents in crumbling italy, your parents will not be able to support your endeavors financially - thus it will be extremely hard for both of parents & you

if you choose to leavy italy with your parents:
you guys must start fresh and gather all your resources, this can't be helped and this is probably what's happening to a lot of other businesses - closing and gathering all their finances and looking to start somewhere anew


if your parents refuse to leave you're either gonna have to go down fighting for finances in italy along with your parents, and if you decide to leave while they stubbornly refuse to let go of italy then you cannot rely on your parents at all for financial support, they'll have a hard time just keeping their business going

so either you move out on your own and expect zero help
or you go down fighting in italy

either way this seems pretty grim for you and i don't want to sound pessimistic but without a college degree this is not looking good at all, you need to start sending out a resume & portfolio to companies all over europe & north america ASAP

keep all your options open, don't come on FFR anymore (you don't have time for this shit), just keep phoning & contacting companies for potential job opportunities
you have to do this regardless of college degree or not so get to it dude pce gluck

[Xiz]

I give you much respect for opening yourself up to this community like this. I was in a similar situation. For the sake of this thread, I won't go into details. I'll keep this short and to the point.

Do what you love for yourself. The day you go to your job to work instead of to create is the day you will hate it.

It's hard to start new, but you are young. You can make things work, really anything work if you believe in yourself. (I know, corny as FUCK but there is a level of seriousness to it.) Do it before you are tied down with your own family.

I know I am perhaps not the biggest help...but...
I wish you the best man...

[Reincarnate]

IMO, keep sending out those resumes.

[04im]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

IMO, keep sending out those resumes.

this

and more of this

none of the emotional bs, u gotta work to live and if there's no work in italy then italy = no go

[Reincarnate]

I made a similar decision, myself -- sent out resumes like crazy, willing to relocate anywhere. Landed a gig in NYC and I've lived here ever since.

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by 04im

either way this seems pretty grim for you and i don't want to sound pessimistic but without a college degree this is not looking good at all, you need to start sending out a resume & portfolio to companies all over europe & north america ASAP

In the graphics world a college degree does not mean a lot. There are no creative companies that will ask you for your college degree, only your portfolio. They hire you for your capabilities, not for a paper saying you've graduated because the paper does not tell a client how good that person is at graphics/art or if that's what the client is looking for, the result is all they care for.

My tip is to promote yourself everywhere possible. Show off your work as best as you can to as many people as you can, nationally and internationally (many companies outsource work to overseas companies so international assignments opens up a whole world of opportunities). Make awesome shit that appeals to many people (even if it's fan art or whatever) to get your name out there and post it on various media websites that generate a lot of traffic (imgur, reddit, deviantart, big design/arts forums etc.). Not only do you get pointers on the design/arts forums as well, there are many people browsing those forums looking for potential.

I'm curious to see what your company website looks like and how everything is presented, because I can definitely give some feedback on that as well.
I'm also curious to the level of skill and how fast you deliver assignments because improving this can help improve word of mouth as well.

[DotKritic]

If you're willing to change careers, I'd say do it and finish your degree. Move to the States or Canada and look into applying for scholarships and grants. The opportunities are endless.

Also, starting over in a new part of the world (let alone a new country) is better than staying somewhere that won't get you anywhere.

[Spenner]

Take your resume to agencies and move up to creative director status. One option of course.

Freelancing sucks in the long run, being every other agency's bitch and getting the crumbs of the real profit. Try your hardest to get into a line of good work (i.e. Procter and Gamble (though that's in canada), things like that)

Best of luck though, spread your work as far as you can. But make sure to brand yourself strongly in the process.

[Mollocephalus]

Well, you guys gave me a lot to thonk about. I'll reply back later when i have time...

[kommisar]

well your father isn't foolish to think online could work.


if you really do love your job and what you do, if business is your biggest strain, taking it online is a pretty great idea. you basically open your doors to millions of potential clients. it's a bit of an overhaul for the structure of your business though.

[Mollocephalus]

Okay, now i'm at home and can reply a bit. Italy is fucked, but where i live that is especially severe, moving to the north could be a bit of a solution.

I will start sending resumes and put up a nice looking portfolio (sadly, i haven't started yet since i was working full time at my studio), in the meanwhile i'll take whatever i can. My girlfriend lives in tuscany and has a stable job, if anything i could start looking for jobs in the area.

I was thinking about giving sites like 99designs.com a shot, cause occasionally there are well paid jobs which are ultimately won by mediocre designers due to a lack of participation. Does anyone have some first-hand experience with those?

mi40: my family cannot move. they cannot speak any foreign language (this is pretty common here) and they have their own ways to support themselves anyway. Besides, i don't want them to follow me and i don't want any support from them, they can't give me any even if they wanted to.

Originally Posted by kommisar

well your father isn't foolish to think online could work.

It's not foolish at all. The problem is he expects me to do that when i'm not a web designer, then asks for things that are incredibly complicated and expensive to do on a website and expect they can be easily done. Not only that, but start selling online means even more investment and it takes time to start off. I don't have that time anymore, because the situation is wearing me off and it's not possible to continue on these premises - i work an average of 10 hours per day and i'm making nothing out of it, the overall situation does not give any encouraging hints and then we (as a nation) have to witness everyday all sorts of waste from an incompetent ruling class.

Working with your parents, for the few of you who might have experienced it, can be nice for some aspects but also pretty crappy for some others. You're always their son, and being tied forever with my family like that is not what i want, after these 4 years i realize it. No boss can project their expectations on you like a parent can do, and if things don't go that well it becomes hard to bear with the constant pressure.

After a bit of talking, i know i can find another job right away (nothing exceptional, not even relevant to what i do) so i can make a little money to support myself when i'll not be here anymore. If that counts, i could count on my girlfriend when i'm looking for jobs near where she lives - keep in mind that not all workplaces can be found online and many won't consider applications over phone or mail here in Italy. Our culture is a little different - a bit more rural, i'd say.

Anyway, after this weekend i'll give my father an answer and that will be it. Let's see where this goes.

If not even moving to the north will do, i'll just have to leave the country. There are programs to work abroad and if you're not picky it's not overly difficult to find a living.

[Kraezymann]

All I seem to hear at my shop are stories of smaller shops closing up their doors, and its kinda depressing. Mine is one of the lucky few that are still in town, so I can't say I know what its like. But I wish you luck, man.

You mentioned graphic design and print. What are some examples of what you do? Posters, covers, boxes, etc.? Because if you can do the design part well, or the printing part well, maybe there is a large print shop around where you can apply? Or failing that, a newspaper, or government print shop? Our university even has its own graphic and print shop, maybe yours does too?

Also, if you decide to leave the country, just how far are you willing to go? Do you want to fax in a resume up here or something? I don't know what if anything I can do in particular, but maybe I can send you a copy of an application form for our shop?

[Cavernio]

My totally unexperienced opinion of business is that your dad clearly needs to get someone else to take the business online. Be it temporary so they can teach you (or even your dad) what you need to know, or someone permanent in the hopes that the business will take off once you reach a global market. (Dare I say that there are people on this site who would be more than capable of what he needs that might need work?)
Anyways, a few thousand or whatever it is, of paying someone to do that is probably nothing compared to the mountains of debt he's in right now, and seems the only way he can get his business running.

It seems clear that you know what you want to do though. You can't keep up with the demands of the business, that's that. If your dad doesn't want to find other help for the business, then it's obvious you need to leave.

I'm a little worried that your dad doesn't fully understand exactly how unqualified and how much time it would take you do what he wants though. You need to convey to him exactly what you can and can't do, what skills you don't have, and some sort of timeframe. I know I myself don't have any experience doing something like this, but both my husband and my brother write programs, and your situation, where the client is clueless as to how easy or hard it is to do something, and they keep changing their mind about what they want, etc, seems to be a very common and potentially very serious problem. My brother worked for one of the contractors who were digitizing the Canadian healthcare system a decade or so ago, that huge boondoggle were the government spent a ridiculous amount of money for essentially nothing. To hear my brother describe it, the problem was not that the company wasn't doing anything, but rather that there was a communication failure about what they said they wanted and what his company understood, or they changed their minds, multiple times, over years. Software development isn't just about knowing how to program, it's about making what your client wants, and often when the client doesn't know what they want. (In this case, your dad's the client.)
Anyways, what you were saying reminded me of this. Even if you don't stay working for your dad, (which seems like that's the choice you've made), I really think you need to sit down with him and do your best to convey just how much work and time is needed to make what he wants to the best of your abilities, because I fear he would be keep on trekking anyways, and keep spinning his wheels in regards to the technological framework he wants for this...even though it's outwardly something very simple like a web-based business.

I am, however, in agreement with Xiz, in that doing something you love, if you can live while doing it, is worth a lot. It seems to me though that you love this business.