Rules on aim/skype/outside chat logs in-game

[Netjet!]

Making another thread for it to make it easier

So clearly the game was fucked up because logs came into play. I think a lot of us agree that the way logs were used was kind of BS (it was a good ploy but still), and it ruined the game IMHO.

So jrodd suggested that out-of-game chat (if allowed) should only be limited to voice/video chat, which would be a good option, but in my opinion I think text chat is fine but a rule similar to the PM sharing rule on the forums should be done for chat logs.

Just so this doesn't happen again.




edit:

Originally Posted by j-rodd123

for the record, I MUCH prefer in thread only, and if out of thread is allowed I would limit it to voice/video chat. it is kind of cheap, whatever, this is allowed, but it's not like I went around asking people to screenshot their logs with every other person until someone messed up. there was much stuff leaving up to this

again my opinion is: I hate logs and stuff like that, but if it's allowed im gonna be a bitch and take advantage of it

fyi

[FictionJunction]

logs are fine, wolves should be prepared to fake logs or separate themselves from other wolves

[thesunfan]

Glad my side won and shit, doesn't matter *too* much to me how, but I do agree that it was pretty fucking stupid, and that something should be done. I agree with your proposal to have text that simply cannot be shared amongst other players, and not to solely have video/call, since I think that is hard to set up without text. See: the experiences RSD, Danceguy and myself had joining Google hangouts.

[Brilliant Dynamite Neon]

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

logs are fine, wolves should be prepared to fake logs or separate themselves from other wolves

The problem is not with the logs themselves, the problem asking for screenshots, which are near impossible to fake on the moment's notice they tend to be asked for, and depending on the program used can force the reveal of vital information if they are provided. I think the focus of the discussion should be on this practice. And of course I think recordings of voice/vid chat should be out of the picture too.

I will contribute more when I have the time, but it's important that you understand that it was that specific act that led to us being outed.

[FictionJunction]

it's a matter of paradigm and context. We assume that humans should give logs. This is not true. We assume that wolves must give logs to prevent themselves from being suspicious. This is not true.

it wasn't the log screenshots that cemented Charu and BDN because that presumes that you may have won otherwise but you lost after netjet died and people pieced together where the vigi orb was.

[FictionJunction]

I think all of that is fine. It comes down to character - being a wolf is hard. But you didn't lose because of the screens.

[dAnceguy117]

I'm against sharing logs/screenshots. period. I don't think it should be necessary for wolves to have to fake them. it doesn't really seem like part of the game to me.

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

it wasn't the log screenshots that cemented Charu and BDN because that presumes that you may have won otherwise but you lost after netjet died and people pieced together where the vigi orb was.

uhhh sorta kinda. look at the vote tallies; they were doing a good job of squirming out of even being in the lynch picture.

[Brilliant Dynamite Neon]

That's a defensible position, surely, but it doesn't rule out the possibility that one could lose because of screens.

[FictionJunction]

Originally Posted by Brilliant Dynamite Neon

That's a defensible position, surely, but it doesn't rule out the possibility that one could lose because of screens.

sounds like that'd be your fault then

[FictionJunction]

you assume you have to give anything. you assume that giving something should result in getting you caught.

There are many ways of preventing this from happening that doesn't involve faking logs.

[dAnceguy117]

my opinion... if players (probably townies but either-or, it would become part of the game's meta) announce that the start of the game that they will LYNCH ANYONE WHO DOES NOT IMMEDIATELY PROVIDE LOGS AND SCREENSHOTS then they will do that and wolves will be forced to fake logs. I don't see any way around this.

[FictionJunction]

I'd say no sorry. Join me.

[j-rodd123]

ok, but again it's not like I went and asked everyone for screenshots of the logs. I did it for yoman/netjet, and that one was kinda eh, and this situation called for it and it ended up being right

[FictionJunction]

it's this bizarre compliance that allows this sort of behavior to exist. If you say no you're ok.

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by j-rodd123

ok, but again it's not like I went and asked everyone for screenshots of the logs. I did it for yoman/netjet, and that one was kinda eh, and this situation called for it and it ended up being right

it wasn't like a WIDESPREAD EPIDEMIC in this game for sure. we were all playing the game without malicious intent. still, if the screenshot thing had never happened, this game could have come down to the wire. we'll never know


edit:

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

it's this bizarre compliance that allows this sort of behavior to exist. If you say no you're ok.

I think I see what you're saying. if ANY townies semi-consistently refuse to provide logs then it's not a surefire way to catch wolves, which is a good thing. but if you (Fiction) are the only person who says no, then people can still lynch based on this and be right 98% of the time.

everyone wants to win. why would enough humans say "no" for this to not be a problem?

[FictionJunction]

because fuck you I'm not going to be incriminated because I may not have something you want

[Charu]

That's what I think, but eh...

It was a good game regardless. I mean, it stinks it ended on an anti-clamatic note, but it is part of the game... somewhat.

I mean I could've easily said no to any logs that were being asked, but as newbie wolf, I thought that would be suspicious to not comply.

I totally should've saw this coming and came up with something in case this happened, but I didn't.

Ah well, learn by mistakes!

[FictionJunction]

if people really say 'everyone collect logs' I'll reserve my wolf comms to PMs. Problem solved.

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

it's this bizarre compliance that allows this sort of behavior to exist. If you say no you're ok.

makes you look a bit wolfy if a human who has nothing to hide does it. *Could be* that you're just hiding something else, like a blue-role or an orb, but it seems much easier just to get rid of the practice altogether.

[FictionJunction]

wolves should never have something to hide - if you have something to hide you're going to get caught if people do this. Simply don't have something to hide.