TWG 205 - Zero Active Player Dilemma GAME THREAD

[T-Force]

(also Discord Image Hosting ServiceTM doesn't allow size changes. Imgur was fun to do 's', 'm', and 'l' after its random character to determine image size, but alas. Yay for Otis)

[mellon_collie]

YAY GO OTIS!!!

[T-Force]

Anyway. Bedtime for me.
G'night squad.

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

@freezin i feel you about hatred, i definitely don't like him from yesterday at all.

but as per my vote from yesterday, my eyes are still set on force. i don't like him today either, his quoting seems more performative to me than trying to solve anything

Feeling the same vibes from Force, especially today

+++town vibes for bug from me

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by T-Force

I'll tap this sign that says to vote Shadow_Gold_10 then. I don't mind.

I had trouble finding where this vote actually happened in the end of day time. Can you explain why you retained this vote the entire end of day? It seemed like in your reads post you thought that storn was more sus.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Actually shado. Probably the right thing to do here rather than open a 3rd front

I understand not wanting "a 3rd front" but can I also ask why you ended on Shadow over storn?

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I understand not wanting "a 3rd front" but can I also ask why you ended on Shadow over storn?

Thought that both wernt really wolfy by eod but i still had some small suspicions based on my early scumread of shado due to his kinda bland start of day where he didnt really do much except throw softball questions at people.

That tipped it towards him so rather than throw a functionally useless vote at tforce i controlled the kill.

[FreezinIce]

Having a 3rd wagon was something i wanted in theory but the eod was completely dead so that spoiled it a lot.

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

You dont really believe this right?

If anything everyone else should be more sus than me, at least i was there trying to figure things out.

Everyone else just stood back and watched that kitb happen in slow mo without any sense of urgency so i went after the person i personally thought was more suspicious of the 2 since nobody else was gonna get on tforce

Ok you did kind of answer, and that is probably fair. Flipping storn would have been better for me between the two as he remains vaguely sus for me and based on the lack of serious posts from him to this point, I am not sure that that will change even if he happens to be town. I am viewing how he is playing more like how he did in the anniversary game than he did in the last game I played with him (201). These are the only two games I have played with him. Personally I do not even know where to begin with assessing what he was trying to do at end of day. If he wants to try to explain great, but I do not even know what to ask.

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I had trouble finding where this vote actually happened in the end of day time. Can you explain why you retained this vote the entire end of day? It seemed like in your reads post you thought that storn was more sus.

I understand not wanting "a 3rd front" but can I also ask why you ended on Shadow over storn?

Similar thoughts as what I had looking back at EOD after the flip

+++town vibes for Star

[star-crossed]

Anyway, my main reaction when Shadow's alignment was posted was that Freezin was townie at end of day but that they may keep him alive anyways to fight with Hateandhatred. And I do feel it is anti town at best for HNH to have checked out at the end of the day and so questioning there does not bother me. It is valid due dilligence. But at least for me, that is the trees rather than the forest because of what happened before Freezin ever got in the fight with him. Maybe this is the part where I do check off my bucket list and fight with Freezin and see who convinces who.

I do not know HNH that well but he comes across to me as more of a mechanical-focused player who will hang back more until there is more confirmed info. He is more likely to bring up role stuff earlier than most people, I have noticed, and he tends to get sussed for being quiet. I have yet to see a wolf claim vt super early, in TWG and similar games. My assessment is that the mindset that that claim came from is from a genuine town who is just putting it all out there in response to a fairly dumb vote train. As a wolf, you are boxing in your survival techniques at the day end if you do that. You lose your chance to do any kind of counterclaim play later. To me, how he has seemed to approach the game just fits better with being a true vt rather than a bizarre lazy wolf. The only wolf mindset I could make sense of it from is somebody who has seen that defense strategy work before, or that I should think other people have been more town. At least for right now, that is not true for me for most of you.

And so for how I am assessing things, the more likely T/W fight potentially going on is the T-Force and bugkid one.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

i have noticed, and he tends to get sussed for being quiet. I have yet to see a wolf claim vt super early, in TWG and similar games.

Lol there it is, the VT claim, that was the putrid thing i saw that i was planning on keeping to myself till much later because i didnt want to bring attention to it. Glad someone else noticed.

Ill read the rest of the post but that jumped out at me

[FreezinIce]

That being said i dont like it at all and dont think its indicative of town

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Lol there it is, the VT claim, that was the putrid thing i saw that i was planning on keeping to myself till much later because i didnt want to bring attention to it. Glad someone else noticed.

Ill read the rest of the post but that jumped out at me

what was the context of this claim

[star-crossed]

It is a never a play that I would make but again, I have no data points of a wolf doing it and I do not feel I particularly have a reason to think this is that data point, but I am talking about it because I am open to being shown I am evaluating things wrong. I feel that the flips so far have mostly reinforced my view of the game though, so I am trying to be more vocal on what my perspective is.

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Maybe this is the part where I do check off my bucket list and fight with Freezin and see who convinces who.

I mean you can try, but at this moment its probably not the most constructive thing to do. I want more info and another flip at the very least before i think about trying that, atm id say your position as far as towniness is pretty unassailable from what i see so far.

We have a few differences of opinion but its not at the point where its worth fighting over

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

what was the context of this claim

Uhh i put some pressure on him and he gets self righteous. Iono it was kind of bizarre

[FreezinIce]

Now that im looking i cant find the specific post where he says it. Damn searching for stuff on phone is cursed

[star-crossed]

For me Bug has been kind of neutral at best; they don't seem in their usual groove to me. They had a weird start due to being confused on the timeline and missed EOD due to reasons out of their control, which again makes it harder to evaluate them. I tried to pressure them early and I thought they handled it not terribly but that my approach was also not the best. They have a decent chance of being a storn partner as well if we messed up there - I guess that is one way to interpret his vote flipping.

T-Force is weird to me because it comes across to me like he is trying really hard even though he is busy, but his effort doesn't overall feel townie to me. bug or raeko mentioned it with the quoting the dead people. My reaction was kind of like, k, I knew what Haku's and Shadow's reads were because I cared about assessing their alignment at the time, I do not need to be told that they are known town so I should care.

One thing that stands out is that I feel like he got a lot of strong reads early and it worries me in that that can be easier if you have more information. e.g. I am unsure it logically follows from previous games that he should think I am super townie. At best he is misremembering stuff when making that read. I am also concerned that his Shadow vote does not follow from the strength of the sus he gave on storn.

There is a shadow of the tunnelyness I know and love of T-Force, it just seems more composed and deliberate than I expect of him. I had trouble wanting to vote him over storn yesterday because I arguably sus T-Force for playing with better rhetoric than I expect while I sus storn for playing worse than I believe he is capable. And it is complicated by the T-Force vs. Bug action. So there you go.

[FreezinIce]

You probably shouldnt vote storn today, did u see my posts on the subject? Did you see that eod? Do you think that kitb ever contains a wolf? I just have trouble seeing it

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

also I hate that I ended every sentence with case lol

anyway brb I gotta finish my lunches for real

I'm 100% honest here, I thought I would make it to EOD. Instead, I had to run to even catch my bus to work, and ghosted you all. I'm very very sorry about the fact, I will do better, but it's entirely due to IRL circumstances (same as Haku. I work at night, for those who don't know, and I'm at work right now). I understand it might seem wolfy to a lot of you, but I'm also 100% sure a lot of you can vouch for my circumstances.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Ill revist this tomorrow and explain more but for now the day has moved past us and its time to cede the limelight

I wanted to agree, and speaking of which:

Originally Posted by star-crossed

HNH, are you considering moving anywhere?

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

If HnH doesnt move his vote by eod and doesnt weigh in on whats happening at all here im going after him tomorrow and thats no joke.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

hateandhatred

That eod was almost irredeemably shit for you.

Want to explain wtf you were thinking?

Yeah, I didn't want to actually leave my vote on Freezin given that it just wasn't productive to keep pushing on it while everyone ever was telling me they felt differently about it. I still feel like this guy is fishy as hell, but I was fully willing to let it slide for now and instead focus on more of the conversation. Y'all know my stance on him, and you disagreed with me while I can't fully understand why not. No need to keep beating a dead horse though, so moving on.

And yeah, the IRL thing I mentionned earlier. It's inexcusable but it is what it is. I apologize to everyone, I know the entire game gets hurt when someone isn't available for EOD.

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

Your eod looks a bit sussy as well being the hammer on poor Lewdy

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

You dont really believe this right?

If anything everyone else should be more sus than me, at least i was there trying to figure things out.

Everyone else just stood back and watched that kitb happen in slow mo without any sense of urgency so i went after the person i personally thought was more suspicious of the 2 since nobody else was gonna get on tforce

I actually kind of agree with Freezin. I really don't think he should be "unsuspicious" or whatever the fuck he keeps claiming he is, but I don't think this is particularly alignment indicative? Maybe it's just bias, if I was active I could have lolhammered shadowgod myself to be completely honest (because d0, and also because I do that a lot), but yeah.

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

I still think Hatred has a bit of too wolfy to be a wolf going on, idk either that or he just fundamentally disagrees about how to play the game which might be fair enough

I kinda want to focus on Force...

This is just a weird way to think to me. Storn's D0 was shit, when is Storn's D0 ever not shit?? to the point where it became a site-wide meme?

Does Force of all people want to extend D0 meme shenanigans into D1?? idk

I find this interesting mainly because Force proceeded to try to be extremely helpful after this. It's like their interaction was coordinated a little too well. Other than that, I agree?

Originally Posted by T-Force

Going through Haku's posts to find some reads and interactions - especially knowing they were from a pure point-of-view.

[redacted Haku's quotes]

In order to try to summarize, I feel like Haku's reads led towards

Town:
- Freezin
- Hatred
- bug

- slight Star
- slight me

Null:
- Raeko
- storn

No real wolf reads there, and his vote got voted out ultimately, so not much else more.

Obviously, I'd like to know more about what they meant about Raeko's/my interaction in a post-storn/Shadow vote, but alas.

Aside from the Raeko/Force thing I just pointed out that may or may not be relevant, I think this is genuine and helpful.

Originally Posted by T-Force

Ugh.. I guess I should deep dive into Lewdy's posts too, but.. I feel like that's going to hurt my head.

Originally Posted by T-Force

Re: Hatred

Ok so... Big confession time, before someone else brings it up. I fucked up majorly yesterday, and I didn't want to just doom myself, but shadow was very right with to bring up the PR stuff.

SOMEHOW, while looking at the setup, I looked like I forgot I was a VT. When I brought up that if inno child was in the game, there was a 50% chance of us having a doctor, that was under the assumption that everyone was one of the 2 things in there. Not only my math was just completely wrong (there aren't an equal amount of wolves and towns), but I didn't really read the roles and zoned in on inno child/doctor to see if using this could lead to us getting free information.

Obviously, there are 5 VTs in the game, so none of this works in the slightest. But had someone brought it up, I'd look like I just outed myself as either a PR or a Wolf, because how else would I think that there are only PRs and Wolves in the game?

I swear I'm a VT and I'm possibly going to die for mentionning this. At this point in time, everyone would have a good reason to want to kill me, so that wouldn't be helpful in the slightest. It was purely a brainfart on my end.

On the other hand, I think telling the story first hand is infinitely better than just someone else bringing up the incoherence and having to explain what happened in any sort of convincing fashion.

Which is what I referred to here:

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

I'll also give you that people don't read early lol, because if they did I'd be in trouble. But I'll definitely keep that bit for myself

I dunno how well I can actually recover from this massive blunder but I'll try. Definitely good that confirmed towns did like me, but they're not in the game anymore.

Also, I wanted to post a reads list before EOD yesterday, but that didn't happen. I'll do this later, probably on my break or later on.

Originally Posted by bugkid666

@freezin i feel you about hatred, i definitely don't like him from yesterday at all.

but as per my vote from yesterday, my eyes are still set on force. i don't like him today either, his quoting seems more performative to me than trying to solve anything

I don't really like you either. Before my whole thing with Freezin happened, you were my scummiest read.

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

Idk either that or he just fundamentally disagrees about how to play the game which might be fair enough

I fucking do lol, but not much I can do about it.

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Anyway, my main reaction when Shadow's alignment was posted was that Freezin was townie at end of day but that they may keep him alive anyways to fight with Hateandhatred. And I do feel it is anti town at best for HNH to have checked out at the end of the day and so questioning there does not bother me. It is valid due dilligence. But at least for me, that is the trees rather than the forest because of what happened before Freezin ever got in the fight with him. Maybe this is the part where I do check off my bucket list and fight with Freezin and see who convinces who.

You're my favorite town read at the moment, and you also were yesterday as well. That aside, I do think you understand my gameplay fairly well. A few people have noted they do not know how to read me all that well, so I'll try to elaborate a little bit.

First of all, I have never rolled wolf in my life. Not here, not in IRL game, so I do not have this experience. I did roll SK once in an Ace Attorney game, but I got outed due to a PR power (last person to vote, their alignment is revealed). I believe Raeko was the player there?

I've already addressed the "missing EOD" thing, so that's that.

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I do not know HNH that well but he comes across to me as more of a mechanical-focused player who will hang back more until there is more confirmed info. He is more likely to bring up role stuff earlier than most people, I have noticed, and he tends to get sussed for being quiet. I have yet to see a wolf claim vt super early, in TWG and similar games. My assessment is that the mindset that that claim came from is from a genuine town who is just putting it all out there in response to a fairly dumb vote train. As a wolf, you are boxing in your survival techniques at the day end if you do that. You lose your chance to do any kind of counterclaim play later. To me, how he has seemed to approach the game just fits better with being a true vt rather than a bizarre lazy wolf. The only wolf mindset I could make sense of it from is somebody who has seen that defense strategy work before, or that I should think other people have been more town. At least for right now, that is not true for me for most of you.

If there's anything I know about FFR TWG, it's that people REALLY like to go against inactives. I don't really understand why this is even alignment indicative or why this even pertains to my character as a player, but hey.

Other than that, this is a frighteningly true assessment of how I feel in the game. I've discussed TWG with a few FFR players (outside of games) and I've never quite felt like "we were playing the same game" until this.

Originally Posted by star-crossed

And so for how I am assessing things, the more likely T/W fight potentially going on is the T-Force and bugkid one.

I believe in this, though I don't know how much they are "fighting", if that makes any sense. I'll talk about this more in my own reads list, however.

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Uhh i put some pressure on him and he gets self righteous. Iono it was kind of bizarre

No, that is not why I claimed VT. I was legit trying to put on an effort to find ways to gain info early, I didn't care about your pressure at all, in fact I don't think we had even interacted when I claimed it. You are looking sus to me again.

Besides, you also claimed "100% town" multiple times already, and called the idea of you being wolf ridiculous (or similar things) a multitude of occasion. I do not play according to meta, I guess, so maybe this is what "town you" does, but man I will never understand this.