Twg XXIX Postgame Wolves Win - Page 3

**FishFishRevolution** · 04-10-2006, 09:57 AM

Also, I agree with Hans and blame mead for not reading the thread where I said to let the wolves know each other. I don't know why this game has to be stricken from the record (except that it hurts Tass's wittle weputation), it was a well played game by all and IMO should be included. (This is my input since we're supposed to be able to voice our opinions to TWC these days.)

GuidoHunter · 04-10-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nforcer06164

While I, too, have to admit, it was a brilliant game by blah (at least from what I understand here), it was won through a rule violation, brilliant or not.

I have to admit, I saw the interrogation of Afro and I was REALLY confused. I knew who the wolves were after getting killed, so I recognized that the first two were lies... when they got to the third one... Tass is a wolf? WTF?

So, is the next game also XXIX, or is XXIX just invalidated, and we move on to XXX? If we go with the former, Kilga won't have to compete with me for hosting in XXX after all =P

Technically, blah didn't break that rule. He only impersonated someone else in his actions and words, which didn't break that rule. There was no fake screen name. The point of that rule was to assure everyone that when they're talking to Tasselfoot, it's actually him, and not have to worry about whether or not it's TasseIfoot. The anonymity inherent in the game allowed blah the freedom to convince his fellow wolves that he was not who he really was.

Although that rule wasn't broken this game, we're taking measures to clarify that rule for the future:

EDIT (since I got the log):
[00:43] TasselFoot: chardish and I were discussing whether [what blah did] fell within the current impersonating rules... and we agreed it didn't.
[00:44] TasselFoot: but i'd like to make it so that it is.
...
[00:46] Ares113: Okay, so you're against the blatant telling of Jurs and Afro that he was you, but not the acting and suggesting?
[00:47] TasselFoot: the acting and suggesting is fine.
[00:47] TasselFoot: the flat out lying is not ok
[00:47] Ares113: I can agree to that.

And this game should go down as XXIX, just with a no-decision result. The game happened. The game finished. It should be recorded for record-keeping purposes if nothing else. It's just that neither team should get credit for the win.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

**Tasselfoot** · 04-10-2006, 11:09 AM

I guess TWC will vote on 29 vs 30. I was planning on making the next game XXIX Take 2.

nForcer... had Blah broken that rule, he would have been kicked out of the game and given a ban. We decided that the rule was very specific in that it dealed with Tasselfoot vs TasseIfoot, not him using a random name and stating he was me. As Guido said, we'll be addressing it before the next game.

I feel that since we can't see each other, the one thing that we need to be able to accept as true always.... is that we're actually talking to who we think we're talking to.

And Fish... the fact that Mead allowed Afro to say I was a wolf was a HUGE factor on the outcome of the game. If Mead had even said, "Afro lied to all 3 questions," that proves me human 100%. Then TPS has a solid ally, nobody else knows that TPS knows i'm 100% human and blah probably tries to keep getting my lynched... Jurs goes on to get lynched the next day, and TPS and I have 2 shots to get Blah lynched instead of 1. Not saying that the humans WOULD have won, just that the outcome had a very real chance of being different. As opposed to the 2 games that were cut short, as just about everyone agrees as to what their outcome would have been.

evilbutterfly · 04-10-2006, 12:19 PM

So why was I subbed in again? XD

blahblah18 · 04-10-2006, 12:41 PM

because they wanted to make sure tasuke was human, it was a sneaky way of assuring it and really downright disgusting

Tps222 · 04-10-2006, 02:18 PM

Touche Blah.

I'm disappointed that my fake vote attempt didn't work out.

Afrobean · 04-10-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

amanda tripped (10:47:49 PM): Jesus.
amanda tripped (10:48:16 PM): If I ever read a TWG postgame where Afro does not whine about how his lynching was totally unfair and lame, I will probably die.

I know I'm not the only one who is bothered by being lynched for no reason. It wasn't the fact that I was lynched that bugged me. It was that no one even attempted to justify it. Even in postgame, the justification said was feeble and I'd really hope for more than that, especially as late in the game as it was.

And yeah, I did IM jurs with my regular accounts formatting one time. I'm pretty sure she had me nearly pegged anyway though. Not a big deal in the long run, I suppose.

And Tass, I'm pretty sure it still would have been a wolf win. blah would be the only one left, and I know he wouldn't let Tass and Tps go until the last day. Tass, you'd have been killed quite soon, I'm sure, and blah would have been able to manipulate tps like he did anyway.

Oh yeah. I forgot something I was going to say before. I was totally expecting tps to be wolfed after Tass was lynched. I was actually quite mad that blah hadn't attempted to quell the information, but it really worked out in the long run. I never realized blah was that good at talking through ****.

**stretchypanda** · 04-10-2006, 02:41 PM

Uh. People get lynched. Very rarely is logic involved. Very rarely are lynchings fair. It happens. And, really, your lynching was fair, if only for the fact that you WERE a wolf. Whether the humans had substantial proof or not is irrelevant. The human objective is to find and eliminate wolves, and that's what they did.

If you're bothered by being lynched for no reason, you probably shouldn't play, because you're not going to find many "good" reasons.

mead1 · 04-10-2006, 03:11 PM

Hey guys, it's not that I didn't know you all thought the wolves should know each other, it's that I didn't care. It was a really cool idea. I liked it so I used it. I was hosting. That's the great thing about hosting, it puts you in a position to make decisions about the game. Now, if everyone here is going to tell me I was wrong, more power to them, but it was still my game. If the TWC has supreme power, and ends up throwing this game because Tass got lynched, it's no skin off my back. The fact is, however, if we have TWC to make all the important decisions, then why do we even have hosts? Since those five are obviously smarter and far superior in every way to anyone else, why not make it so only TWC members can host?

Unless the TWC is willing to take this on, I suggest you all, mainly Tass, stop bitching about a call I made in my game.

MilfeulleSakuraba · 04-10-2006, 03:20 PM

So just because it's your game, you think you're allowed to be inconsistent with the rules you implemented and then not tell anyone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tps222

I'm disappointed that my fake vote attempt didn't work out.

I'm disappointed you thought I was that stupid.

Really, your fake vote was pointless, since eb/Tasuke's death predetermined both my vote and blah's. No way were either of us voting for you, so in the end us holding off and waiting for you was actually irrelevant.

blahblah18 · 04-10-2006, 03:29 PM

hi amanda!!!!

blahblah18 · 04-10-2006, 03:29 PM

his concept was hoping that in yoru post voting for me you'd gloat about winning

MilfeulleSakuraba · 04-10-2006, 03:33 PM

He was mistaken, then. If I'm ever a wolf and making a game-ending vote, I'm going to make it acting like a human, just to be a jerk. I did it at least once on BemaniStyle but haven't had the opportunity here.

I was actually half-tempted to play dumb and vote for you after he posted, but attach a human celebratory note to it. Wonder what would've happened if I did.

blahblah18 · 04-10-2006, 03:55 PM

i told him you're the type of guy that would do that

also, amanda made a reall ygood point to me on AIM.. plenty of times tass has found a loophole in the rules, and the game wasn't thrown out or anything... now that he's on the losing side of it, he feels he has to do this. I think it is incredibly hypocritical if you actually stop and tyhink about it

MilfeulleSakuraba · 04-10-2006, 03:57 PM

Then what was the point at all?

If I post and celebrate as a wolf, I'm a wolf.
If I post and celebrate as a human, I'm a wolf.
If I don't post, I'm a wolf.

Sounds like a waste of time to me.

GuidoHunter · 04-10-2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblah18

also, amanda made a reall ygood point to me on AIM.. plenty of times tass has found a loophole in the rules, and the game wasn't thrown out or anything... now that he's on the losing side of it, he feels he has to do this. I think it is incredibly hypocritical if you actually stop and tyhink about it

Not really. Your loophole completely broke the game. There was information that, by the structure of the game, should have been accepted to be true, but was indeed false. Once that third question was answered there was no good and fair way to end the game. Either the humans proceed with false-but-should-be-true information and lynch Tass, allowing for a wolf victory, or mead steps in, says Afro lied to all three, proves Tass human, and they likely win (or not, it doesn't matter). Either way, the outcome is illegitimate and there was no way to stop it once the question was answered.

The plan was mastrful (lawl) and brilliant. This I concede. I knew about it before it happened and was so impressed with it that I just wanted to see it implemented. As concerned as I was with the interrogator's questions before this, I failed to think deeply about yours and catch the problem before it happened. For this I am sorry, but that doesn't change the outcome. The game is illegitimate.

The majority of the fault lies with mead, but some with me and some with you for not seeing it beforehand, too. I'm not saying you're at fault here, only that your plan broke the game and, as such, forced it to be deemed illegitimate.

@mead: Easy, dude. Retrospect tells us a lot of things. In this case it showed us that the wolf anonymity was a bad idea or poorly implemented. A great number of ideas were shut down after they were tried.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

HansSky · 04-10-2006, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblah18

i told him you're the type of guy that would do that

also, amanda made a reall ygood point to me on AIM.. plenty of times tass has found a loophole in the rules, and the game wasn't thrown out or anything... now that he's on the losing side of it, he feels he has to do this. I think it is incredibly hypocritical if you actually stop and tyhink about it

lol tribal game

**Kilgamayan** · 04-10-2006, 05:08 PM

Hey, the tribal game wasn't a loophole, it was Tass, mead and myself taking big risks and having them pay off handsomely. >_>

GuidoHunter · 04-10-2006, 05:56 PM

I wouldn't say it was so much that as it was everyone who revealed their tribe being dumbasses and not playing the game. But whatever.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

HansSky · 04-10-2006, 06:10 PM

I was leaning more towards the part where Tass didn't get his way and made a huge deal about it.

04-10-2006, 09:57 AM	#41
FishFishRevolution GotR Creator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Vi sitter här i venten Current Band: The National Age: 36 Posts: 7,251	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win Also, I agree with Hans and blame mead for not reading the thread where I said to let the wolves know each other. I don't know why this game has to be stricken from the record (except that it hurts Tass's wittle weputation), it was a well played game by all and IMO should be included. (This is my input since we're supposed to be able to voice our opinions to TWC these days.) __________________

04-10-2006, 11:09 AM	#43
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win I guess TWC will vote on 29 vs 30. I was planning on making the next game XXIX Take 2. nForcer... had Blah broken that rule, he would have been kicked out of the game and given a ban. We decided that the rule was very specific in that it dealed with Tasselfoot vs TasseIfoot, not him using a random name and stating he was me. As Guido said, we'll be addressing it before the next game. I feel that since we can't see each other, the one thing that we need to be able to accept as true always.... is that we're actually talking to who we think we're talking to. And Fish... the fact that Mead allowed Afro to say I was a wolf was a HUGE factor on the outcome of the game. If Mead had even said, "Afro lied to all 3 questions," that proves me human 100%. Then TPS has a solid ally, nobody else knows that TPS knows i'm 100% human and blah probably tries to keep getting my lynched... Jurs goes on to get lynched the next day, and TPS and I have 2 shots to get Blah lynched instead of 1. Not saying that the humans WOULD have won, just that the outcome had a very real chance of being different. As opposed to the 2 games that were cut short, as just about everyone agrees as to what their outcome would have been. __________________ RIP

04-10-2006, 12:19 PM	#44
evilbutterfly FFR Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Small town, TN Age: 37 Posts: 5,784	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win So why was I subbed in again? XD __________________ So I've gone completely slack-ass and haven't done any work on creating games. =( In less-depressing news, I got a job for an online business (which sells non-electronic games, of all things!) which has taught me a lot about marketing online and all that jazz. So now I'm on Twitter @NoahWright. And I write the blog for their website. Plus I do cool programming in-house that you'll never see. =O

04-10-2006, 12:41 PM	#45
blahblah18 FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NOW BLAHTOPIA Posts: 1,662	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win because they wanted to make sure tasuke was human, it was a sneaky way of assuring it and really downright disgusting __________________ but for now... postCount++

04-10-2006, 02:18 PM	#46
Tps222 FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Age: 33 Posts: 6,167	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win Touche Blah. I'm disappointed that my fake vote attempt didn't work out.

04-10-2006, 02:41 PM	#48
stretchypanda shock me shock me Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Texas Age: 39 Posts: 4,123	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win Uh. People get lynched. Very rarely is logic involved. Very rarely are lynchings fair. It happens. And, really, your lynching was fair, if only for the fact that you WERE a wolf. Whether the humans had substantial proof or not is irrelevant. The human objective is to find and eliminate wolves, and that's what they did. If you're bothered by being lynched for no reason, you probably shouldn't play, because you're not going to find many "good" reasons.

04-10-2006, 03:11 PM	#49
mead1 Cerebellumberjack Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: On a boat Age: 33 Posts: 3,960	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win Hey guys, it's not that I didn't know you all thought the wolves should know each other, it's that I didn't care. It was a really cool idea. I liked it so I used it. I was hosting. That's the great thing about hosting, it puts you in a position to make decisions about the game. Now, if everyone here is going to tell me I was wrong, more power to them, but it was still my game. If the TWC has supreme power, and ends up throwing this game because Tass got lynched, it's no skin off my back. The fact is, however, if we have TWC to make all the important decisions, then why do we even have hosts? Since those five are obviously smarter and far superior in every way to anyone else, why not make it so only TWC members can host? Unless the TWC is willing to take this on, I suggest you all, mainly Tass, stop bitching about a call I made in my game.

04-10-2006, 03:29 PM	#51
blahblah18 FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NOW BLAHTOPIA Posts: 1,662	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win hi amanda!!!! __________________ but for now... postCount++

04-10-2006, 03:33 PM	#53
MilfeulleSakuraba Ryoko Shintani is #1! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Transbaal Galaxy Age: 35 Posts: 403	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win He was mistaken, then. If I'm ever a wolf and making a game-ending vote, I'm going to make it acting like a human, just to be a jerk. I did it at least once on BemaniStyle but haven't had the opportunity here. I was actually half-tempted to play dumb and vote for you after he posted, but attach a human celebratory note to it. Wonder what would've happened if I did. __________________

04-10-2006, 03:55 PM	#54
blahblah18 FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NOW BLAHTOPIA Posts: 1,662	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win i told him you're the type of guy that would do that also, amanda made a reall ygood point to me on AIM.. plenty of times tass has found a loophole in the rules, and the game wasn't thrown out or anything... now that he's on the losing side of it, he feels he has to do this. I think it is incredibly hypocritical if you actually stop and tyhink about it __________________ but for now... postCount++

04-10-2006, 03:57 PM	#55
MilfeulleSakuraba Ryoko Shintani is #1! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Transbaal Galaxy Age: 35 Posts: 403	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win Then what was the point at all? If I post and celebrate as a wolf, I'm a wolf. If I post and celebrate as a human, I'm a wolf. If I don't post, I'm a wolf. Sounds like a waste of time to me. __________________

04-10-2006, 05:08 PM	#58
Kilgamayan Super Scooter Happy Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Location, Location. Age: 39 Posts: 6,583	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win Hey, the tribal game wasn't a loophole, it was Tass, mead and myself taking big risks and having them pay off handsomely. >_> __________________ I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds.

04-10-2006, 06:10 PM	#60
HansSky FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ----> Age: 36 Posts: 1,925	Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win I was leaning more towards the part where Tass didn't get his way and made a huge deal about it. __________________ hi

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