Anti-skill tokens

[Fantasticone]

If it doesn't have as many jacks.

[MrRubix]

People here are retarded -- look at the PA spread on this file. How can anyone possibly say this is a 12. It's an obvious, obvious 13.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

People here are retarded -- look at the PA spread on this file. How can anyone possibly say this is a 12. It's an obvious, obvious 13.

If you are referring to the OMGWTFT0k3N then ya, dont know why its a 12, scores clearly show its a 13, you compare it to all the other FGO's and it is no way in comparison in difficulty.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

Eh, I just forgot a good, nobody hits late anyway :P

I hit late for this token >_>;

And anyone who thinks Gigadelic is a 12 is just mashing mindlessly to make it through the file. The ending of this chart is just downright brutal and doesn't compare to anything serious in game.

With that - I bring another issue; who's idea was it to put in a song that:

a.) has a HORRIBLE/dump chart
b.) we don't have permission for
c.) is publicly available on StepMania and easily accessible?

[MrMagic5239]

And to think when the offline came out, everyone wanted it to play dump files on ffr.


Now everyone complains. Cool stories.

[MrRubix]

1) IMO it's not a horrible dump chart. Again, I think it's one of the highest-quality NON-dump files out there that is also quite difficult. The ending is dense but that doesn't make it a dump chart -- I think that label is an unfair one in this case.

2) "Who cares?" Nobody cares that the *0 *e*t or *yna**e r**e songs are in the game as long as people aren't retarded about things. FFR's no longer a business.

3) "Who cares?"

[TC_Halogen]

...uh

Originally Posted by MrRubix

Again, I think it's one of the highest-quality NON-dump files out there that is also quite difficult.

...you're funny. This is absolutely no offense to Reach, but when you have mindless 24th usage and a chart that has over 75% jumps for a song that doesn't sound like it has anything that stands out, it's a dump. There also happens to be other players who are playing this game who can't do these kinds of files without mashing.

Originally Posted by MrRubix

2) "Who cares?" Nobody cares that the *0 *e*t or *yna**e r**e songs are in the game as long as people aren't retarded about things. FFR's no longer a business.

Just because the game isn't run like a business anymore doesn't mean FFR can't get hit with violating permissions. Teranoid is a IIDX song artist. Let's not forget about KBO, and how they were running the game with no intentions of being a business, yet they got hit by Bemani because they had songs from various rhythm games (Pop'n, IIDX, DDR, etc.).

Originally Posted by MrRubix

3) "Who cares?"

Sorry that I happen to be one of the people who actually cares about FFR and knows that there's still a batch of files that should be attended to, rather than inserting mindless crap. Anyone here and use a converter or ask for files converted if they have an offline engine. If they don't have one, that's their own fault.

I mean, seriously - staff has busted their ass to get the site back up and running, why would you guys risk all of that by violating permissions? Files like this could go into this thread.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by MrMagic5239

And to think when the offline came out, everyone wanted it to play dump files on ffr.


Now everyone complains. Cool stories.

Originally Posted by MrMagic5239

And to think when the offline came out, everyone wanted it to play dump files on ffr.

Now everyone complains. Cool stories.

Originally Posted by MrMagic5239

And to think when the offline came out, everyone wanted it to play dump files on ffr.

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Files like this could go into this thread.

I rest my case.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Maybe they should get the batch process going faster, I mean site came back and they are still working on files sent in from a year ago, like 16 people judging and it is still going slow, want songs that are in batch, speed up the judging process, upload new songs to the game as they are accepted and not wait till the whole batch is completed.

[TC_Halogen]

The reason why the batch doesn't get dumped all at once is because they want to have files to satisfy users while the batch is being judged. I agree with the rate of release being extremely slow (and yes, there are judges who have not finished, which is extremely frustrating), but I'm sure that will pick up once all of the straggler judges get knocked off of the team. Once this batch is finalized and files go up for queue, it might go a little faster.

[MrRubix]

I'd have to disagree with your points about the file itself -- I think it's a clear example of high-challenge step patterns that actually fit things pretty well. I think it starts to cross over into "dump" territory when things start to get messy for the sake of messiness. That doesn't feel present here. Again, it's dense, but it's not horribly awkward, it makes sense, and it's challenging. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find many 13's that were able to do this. The only part of the file that might be a bit "dumpy" is the very, very end.

Yeah, sites can still get hit -- but again, only if people are bloody obvious about things. The minute everyone starts clamoring about permissions is when the entire thing collapses. At this rate it likely WILL be removed despite it being an obscure, unnamed, and hard-to-acquire song in the first place.

If you want files from the batch to be uploaded so badly, then do something about it. All I did is talk to the staff and got the token/file inserted in less than a few hours. Nobody is touching the batch much due to large levels of CBF. It's a horrible, slow process and I honestly cbf to wait for others.

[rushyrulz]

Only reason I'm calling it a (high) 12. Is because there's no retarded ass burst **** and intense speed patterns found in the other 13s in this game. 13 just seems to me like it's reserved for megadumps, and since the fastest notes in this file are 24ths, I just seem to want to classify it as a high 12, it's severely lacking the total bullcrap dumpfile aspect of being a 13. Have you SEEN RATO, DP, vROFL, and Tell v3?

What do all of these songs have that Gigadelic does not? (idk about Tell v3, I've never seen the file.)

Jumpgluts, insane bursts, loads of polys, close jacks at high BPM.

I just don't think Gigadelic is nearly chaotic enough to be classified as a full-blown 13. Maybe a 12.8, because yes, the ending is nuts, but pales in comparison to the ending of Death Piano.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

Only reason I'm calling it a (high) 12. Is because there's no retarded ass burst **** and intense speed patterns found in the other 13s in this game. 13 just seems to me like it's reserved for megadumps, and since the fastest notes in this file are 24ths, I just seem to want to classify it as a high 12, it's severely lacking the total bullcrap dumpfile aspect of being a 13. Have you SEEN RATO, DP, vROFL, and Tell v3?

What do all of these songs have that Gigadelic does not? (idk about Tell v3, I've never seen the file.)

Jumpgluts, insane bursts, loads of polys, close jacks at high BPM.

I just don't think Gigadelic is nearly chaotic enough to be classified as a full-blown 13. Maybe a 12.8, because yes, the ending is nuts, but pales in comparison to the ending of Death Piano.

The problem with this logic is that it makes for an extremely huge "12" category. We toss crap like Lolo in there and then in the same breath try to argue that Gigadelic belongs in the same category? I think it's far more reasonable to say that Gigadelic is a low-13, whereas DP/RATO are high 13's. Something like DeVouR/Eclipse/Revo/Schmollbluk/etc would be high 12's.

[rushyrulz]

My logic is no more problematic than the logic of having a 13-degree difficulty scale, as opposed to 50 or 100. 15 would even be better.

Like I said before, 13 just seems to me like a special-case difficulty for dumpfiles only. And as you stated, Gigadelic is NOT a dumpfile, therefore should be classified as a 12 (which I think is a true max). Seems like the difficulty scale is 1-12 (true scale), and 13(joke dumps) instead of 1-13. Just my opinion. You make a good point as well.

EDIT :sorry for editing so much lol

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Its a 13, doesnt matter if it is a dump or its a legit file, the fact is the difficulty is a 13, the hardest FGO right now to score on is Revo and thats only because of the BG, this is WAY harder then that, you have 2 mins of straight pretty fast 12th jump jacks and 24th stream thrown in, the fact everyone is having to mash it clearly shows it is hard as shiz and is up there with DP and RATO. There is no rule saying a difficulty 13 is for dump files only, DP and RATO are stepped in making sense in some way, just really hard, giga is the same way. It is a 13 because it is a 13.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

My logic is no more problematic than the logic of having a 13-degree difficulty scale, as opposed to 50 or 100. 15 would even be better.

Like I said before, 13 just seems to me like a special-case difficulty for dumpfiles only. And as you stated, Gigadelic is NOT a dumpfile, therefore should be classified as a 12 (which I think is a true max). Seems like the difficulty scale is 1-12 (true scale), and 13(joke dumps) instead of 1-13. Just my opinion. You make a good point as well.

EDIT :sorry for editing so much lol

No, the logic is that categories have to make sense. The fact that it's a numeric system implies "Well, generally all files that belong to Difficulty X are of the same rough difficulty level and therefore belong in X."

If you want 12 to be the max, then 12 is the max. It doesn't make sense to say "Well, this file is ABOVE the max!" especially when I've AAA'd one of the 13's, and clearly we wouldn't label DP as a 12 (most people would argue it's a clear 13). It never makes sense to invoke a "max difficulty threshold" that isn't somehow dynamic. The idea is to have a rolling, relative scale. It's almost as dumb as saying Marvelous is better than Perfect... it just confuses people.

ThirdStyle is, in the future, going to be using a difficulty-judging metric I made that basically creates difficulty levels on files resultant of player statistics and performance metrics where 100 = always the hardest. We don't have that kind of system here, so it become totally ****ed if we start stuffing everything into 12 and then putting anything we deem "absurd" into 13.

[rushyrulz]

Eh, I'll play it some more when I get back on XP and see what I think afterwards.

Originally Posted by MrRubix

No, the logic is that categories have to make sense. The fact that it's a numeric system implies "Well, generally all files that belong to Difficulty X are of the same rough difficulty level and therefore belong in X."

If you want 12 to be the max, then 12 is the max. It doesn't make sense to say "Well, this file is ABOVE the max!" especially when I've AAA'd one of the 13's, and clearly we wouldn't label DP as a 12 (most people would argue it's a clear 13). It never makes sense to invoke a "max difficulty threshold" that isn't somehow dynamic. The idea is to have a rolling, relative scale. It's almost as dumb as saying Marvelous is better than Perfect... it just confuses people.

ThirdStyle is, in the future, going to be using a difficulty-judging metric I made that basically creates difficulty levels on files resultant of player statistics and performance metrics where 100 = always the hardest. We don't have that kind of system here, so it become totally ****ed if we start stuffing everything into 12 and then putting anything we deem "absurd" into 13.

Which is why we need a broader spectrum right?

Also, didn't you AAA Gigadelic the day it came out? Not the case with Death Piano.

There's always going to be controversy in the songs high in one difficulty and low in another. Some people will think high 8s are 9s, high 10s are 11s, high 12s are 13s, vice versa with low/high. So there's not really a point to arguing this. I could live if it was a high 12, I also wouldn't mind it as a low 13.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

Eh, I'll play it some more when I get back on XP and see what I think afterwards.



Which is why we need a broader spectrum right?

Also, didn't you AAA Gigadelic the day it came out? Not the case with Death Piano.

There's always going to be controversy in the songs high in one difficulty and low in another. Some people will think high 8s are 9s, high 10s are 11s, high 12s are 13s, vice versa with low/high. So there's not really a point to arguing this.

A broader spectrum only increases the degree of accuracy within the scope -- ideally you need something that is relative.

If you only have two difficulty levels, *ideally* we should say, "Files in Category 1 are generally easier than anything you play in Category 2." As you increase the number of categories, the logic should still roughly hold. The *number* of categories is arbitrary and can be extended as far as you think we need precision for (does it make sense to use a 100-pt scale? Sure. 1000? Probably not -- we would likely be unable to really sense much difference between a level-767 and level-768 file). Ultimately the amount of precision needs to be such that we can make the rough claim I mentioned above.

The fact that I AAA'd it doesn't mean much. It's still a harder file than almost any 12 right now, but it isn't as hard as RATO or DP, etc.

It IS something we can argue if we go by statistics. You might say "Well, I think this file should be a 10," but if the stats show that people perform worse on it than some other file, it may be an 11. You may just be in the upper standard deviation for that file because of some outlier-skill (e.g. jacking) that gives you a comparable aid on said file.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

It also depends on ones playability, someone who is going to be good at jacks is surly going to find this easier then a song that is speed/bursty. When picking the difficulty, you need to actually look at all aspects of the file instead of basing off your personal playing strengths.

[MrRubix]

Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127

It also depends on ones playability, someone who is going to be good at jacks is surly going to find this easier then a song that is speed/bursty. When picking the difficulty, you need to actually look at all aspects of the file instead of basing off your personal playing strengths.

Right -- but difficulties ideally need to take in a sort of "open market" effect in judgment. YOU might be better at one given file, but we can say that for MOST people, this may not be the case.

[revolutionomega]

Correct. This token is stupid to get.