Fixing Song Title Inconsistencies

[00Razor00]

It's been dead ever since my request to add "One" to 'Minute Waltz v2' (for consistency issues obviously) got rejected.

[igotrhythm]

+1 to putting the full "proper" titles in the Ingame Song Info thread. If the songs that went into TGWP and other medleys are listed there, why not FFLBF?

However, this sort of in-engine correction based on user input isn't unprecedented. :/

[Plan_Bsk81127]

The situation is understandable when it is something like the Kidney Stone issue or like the two sharpnel song issues (minor fixes for the title to be technically correct), but for the SSH issues it just doesnt seem needed despite it being correct. All it is doing is making the title longer for the sake of mentioning the game its from or whatever just so it is technically correct. Sure having the title being as it is supposed to be should be a must, but in some cases it needs to be user friendly for the game itself. I dont see what is so hard about knowing when something in a title is not needed. Havent people learned making things technically correct makes things worse, just look at FFR files being released the past year or so.

[Stage:]

Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127

The situation is understandable when it is something like the Kidney Stone issue or like the two sharpnel song issues (minor fixes for the title to be technically correct), but for the SSH issues it just doesnt seem needed despite it being correct. All it is doing is making the title longer for the sake of mentioning the game its from or whatever just so it is technically correct. Sure having the title being as it is supposed to be should be a must, but in some cases it needs to be user friendly for the game itself. I dont see what is so hard about knowing when something in a title is not needed. Havent people learned making things technically correct makes things worse, just look at FFR files being released the past year or so.

Yeah I agree, and I'm pretty sure that SSH dude only added those informations so that we know what game the actual song is taken from.

Btw, saying ''stupid'' is not that big of a deal, he explained what he had too in a nice logical and understandable way (and everyone is for once) so stop trippin

[Wayward Vagabond]

ITT: CBR gets butt hurt by someone being rude with their response

Changing titles is cool if its reasonable(little god channel, a kidney stone, cinnamon roll) stuff like ssh and classical is dumb considering the visible character limitation.

[Coolboyrulez0]

I dont get how I'm supposed to be butthurt when I just owned the shit out of him and his argument but okay ?_?

guess i'm mad and butthurt and didnt know it, my bad

ps: while this is about creationism this is entertaining and rather educational about general argument fallacies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH0vQ...feature=g-vrec (ps: we all make some of these argument fallacies)

[foilman8805]

CBR is a ******

respect to qqwref

the song titles are such a small part of this game, and truthfully, they have little meaning to most players. take it from someone who has played this game for 6 years. i couldn't give a shit about the song names.

perhaps you should compromise on this instead of being a stubborn dickhead. leave the titles of the songs in game the way they are and perhaps edit the FFR song list which, ideally, is where that information can be better accommodated and appreciated. that way you have what you want, and the people that play the game can still keep track of their favorite songs.

[bmah]

Let's focus on the topic at hand.

Most of the song titles I've been thinking of changing are those originating from OCRemix. The problem is almost inverse to what CBR is suggesting with S.S.H. songs: many old songs on FFR feature the game title within the actual title of the song. In otherwords, I intend to remove excess baggage from those songs.

As for the inconsistency regarding Japanese song titles being translated to English or Romajii, I'm not overly concerned about it. Generally speaking, if the English translation makes sense, I'd use that instead. In many cases though, there's only a "rough equivalent" of an English translation so it doesn't sound quite right. In those cases, I just use the Romajii name.

[Jake Ferguson]

In all seriousness, here's an example of why I think your idea is unecessary, save for the shrapnel songs:

This is a screenshot of DJ-Radman's newgrounds that we have permission for.
All of his songs have his own name in them.
So if someone steps one of his songs and it gets accepted, it will have his name in the title as well as him as the author.
I'm going to have to go with qqwref on this one and say that's pretty stupid.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by foilman8805

[...] leave the titles of the songs in game the way they are and perhaps edit the FFR song list which, ideally, is where that information can be better accommodated and appreciated. that way you have what you want, and the people that play the game can still keep track of their favorite songs.

you know, I thought about this too, and I'm really glad someone else mentioned it. I figured it was just too much of an issue/unnecessary. Artists are more likely going to be concerned with a part of the site that display not only their song names, but also their proper artist names (or alias names), websites, and other means of contact.

With FFR's current setup, I don't know if it's possible to change the song list or the in-game appearance without affecting one another. I think the engine and the song list generate information from the same database table.

EDIT:

This is a screenshot of DJ-Radman's newgrounds that we have permission for.
All of his songs have his own name in them.
So if someone steps one of his songs and it gets accepted, it will have his name in the title as well as him as the author.
I'm going to have to go with qqwref on this one and say that's pretty stupid.

You can't really use this scenario though, because it's obviously not an addition to the song title, it's just a way to differentiate himself from other artists on NG. Sessilenomad tags his songs with SN before the actual name, but it's implied that he's just tagging his artist name.

[bmah]

Now I lack a general knowledge in this, but is it at all possible to update FFR's font usage to encompass foreign characters and more symbols? In fact, there are a number of common symbols that I'm surprised are supposedly dysfunctional on FFR. For example, if Cinnamon Roll had to be replaced for "@", then I'm rather shocked the game can't handle a common symbol like that. Can the font usage for the game ever be updated?

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by bmah

Now I lack a general knowledge in this, but is it at all possible to update FFR's font usage to encompass foreign characters and more symbols? In fact, there are a number of common symbols that I'm surprised are supposedly dysfunctional on FFR. For example, if Cinnamon Roll had to be replaced for "@", then I'm rather shocked the game can't handle a common symbol like that. Can the font usage for the game ever be updated?

Don't hold me to this response, but I think the issue with the font that's used in FFR menus (Neuropol, for those of you curious) might have a licensed version of some sort, because multiple symbols are omitted. This is actually somewhat common in certain fonts where the creator wants to display just enough to be partially usable (a trial, if you will), but not enough to use normally (omission of common symbols/numbers/etc).

EDIT: hmmm, actually, Neuropol can handle those symbols. I guess those particular symbols need to be embedded within the .swf.

[Velocity]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

With FFR's current setup, I don't know if it's possible to change the song list or the in-game appearance without affecting one another. I think the engine and the song list generate information from the same database table.

Correct, one affects the other.

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Don't hold me to this response, but I think the issue with the font that's used in FFR menus (Neuropol, for those of you curious) might have a licensed version of some sort, because multiple symbols are omitted. This is actually somewhat common in certain fonts where the creator wants to display just enough to be partially usable (a trial, if you will), but not enough to use normally (omission of common symbols/numbers/etc).

EDIT: hmmm, actually, Neuropol can handle those symbols. I guess those particular symbols need to be embedded within the .swf.

FFR uses a much older Neuropol you can't even get anymore, there's revised fonts using the same name that are extended to have more support. Support foreign characters is quite hard as experience from R^2, unless you use a unicode font and embed all the characters, they won't appear. Neuropol is nowhere near a unicode font.

[TC_Halogen]

And I imagine, embedding all of the characters/unicode in the .swf will make the engine a lot heavier in terms of filesize, too.

[Velocity]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

And I imagine, embedding all of the characters/unicode in the .swf will make the engine a lot heavier in terms of filesize, too.

Japanese adds 2mbs, Korean adds 8mbs. English is 114kbs. The game is only 1mb itself.

Edit: It's also not possible in flash to tell if a font has a certain character.

[bmah]

Excluding foreigns symbols (i.e. we still use translations and Romajii, etc.), do you think it's possible to add in common symbols used in English, such as forward/backslashes, @, etc., and perhaps some shapes such as star, heart, diamond? I think that will solve some song issues.
I don't see the need to download a Japanese language pack now.

[infinity.]

Originally Posted by Coolboyrulez0

Lmfao dude what's wrong with your attitude.

God are you an annoying poster, holy shit -- I said romaji is perfectly fine unless you dont know what that means.

also mfw you dictate the artist how to label their songs... are you this dumb or just trolling? (ps: i addressed this in both ways possible and you fail to read that removal is totally a valid option. oops illiteracy fail)

I can call my next tune "qqwref is a ****** - super mario. bros theme remix (CBR edit)" and you can't do shit about it.

@MrPop: yeah I think so too but isn't it sad that a (flash) game in 2012 can't support special characters? haha

how to post: a tutorial by cbr aka middie2.0
you lack social skills learn how to exist

[Velocity]

Originally Posted by bmah

Excluding foreigns symbols (i.e. we still use translations and Romajii, etc.), do you think it's possible to add in common symbols used in English, such as forward/backslashes, @, etc., and perhaps some shapes such as star, heart, diamond? I think that will solve some song issues.
I don't see the need to download a Japanese language pack now.

The font files are embedded into the swf, so only I need the fonts, the game loads them from itself, which is why it adds filesize. I can only add those characters of the original fonts support them.

[Crazyjayde]

I'm not too fond of the idea of adding information, sometimes unneedful to the game's content. I think the mentality of beat games revolves around the theme of simplicity and it shouldn't be too confusing to find the file you're looking for.

Either way, I don't believe there's any inconsistency issue in S.S.H. titles whereas every files included in-game is described in a similar way. Really, I think the rest of the title only hints at the source of the song. It takes place and it's not relevant for the player. Think of it as if I would be naming the LoZ theme song like this: Legend of Zelda Collection ~ Legend of Zelda II Theme

This is why, in a perfect world, we would have a dialog in-game that would redirect us to some song info and author's website. ( = publicity + all those fancy-dancy things that would facilitate song permissions from musicians ¬_¬)

-

Here are some suggestions I'd like to make for some SSH songs that I must agree, are confusing:

Holy Orders -> Holy Orders (Be Just or Be Dead)
This would normally be the full name. I did not imply the version's name at first for consistency sake but also because I do not know the existence of the other versions.

Brandish Headless -> Headless [Brandish OST] or Headless ⟨Brandish⟩
Unless we're all renaming SSH songs to the titles coolboyrulez0 suggested, then, this formulation would be wrong. As of now, it should normally be referred to Headless but since we're used to it being called that way, I think it would be more logical to split the name in two, thus avoiding confusion. Unless using another punctuation symbol other than the square brackets or the french brackets, I really don't see any other way other than adding OST at the end to refer to a game's soundtrack. Maybe use chevrons? I mean those things: ⟨ ⟩ ?

P.S: Just to point out, there's also the same problem with Boss Machine (Sonic2) by DM Ashura which would really need to be renamed to BOSS MACHINE (Sonic 2 Boss Battle)

VS Boss Battle -> VS Boss Battle [Ai Senshi Nicol OST] or VS Boss Battle ⟨Ai Senshi Nicol⟩
This one really **cks everything up. Like with Brandish Headless and Boss Machine, we would really need to tag the game from where it is coming, either way, there's absolutely no way we can differentiate one from another.

-

Though, I'm down for a clean-up of the FFR Song List. Getting everything in order in terms of capitalization, punctuation and proper naming would be godly amazing. Just enough to stay consistent and stick to the original names.

Still, ya'know what would be better?
S.O.N.G S.T.Y.L.E.S

[hi19hi19]

I made a thread suggesting changing all the names of classical songs that were clearly wrong (lol Molto Vivace)
With a lot of help from subin, I managed to get a full list of recommended changes.

A lot of people agreed, some people disagreed... nothing happened. I'm sure I could find a link if such song name corrections are actually taking place.