Communism is bad?

[ffraxis]

Originally Posted by RB_Quackies

To correlate communism with China in more recent days is a little bit off, because they have been much more lenient with business in the past 10 years, and are pretty much shifting into a socialism-Marxism type of government. However, America on the other hand, "land of the free" has shifted from pure laissez-faire capitalism (absolutely no health care restrictions, minimum wage, worker benefits, NOTHING besides what's best for the business) has slowly been becoming otherwise. Our 3 republican presidents of the booming 20's, Harding, Coolidge and Hoover, established this as "The business of America, is business" and basically, ever since then, we've been drifting towards what people consider "communism" and that is, to end where I started off, total and utter control by the government.

Its not about the government becoming communist, its about the corporations taking over and becoming organizations that exert power nationally or internationally with the interest of making profits, maintaining specific profits, and of course buying off people or using dirty work to make sure they are maintaining themselves in power.

So to the speak, America is becoming a plutocracy.

[Reincarnate]

lol

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...ay-anything---

[Vendetta21]

Originally Posted by ffraxis

So to the speak, America is becoming a plutocracy.

lol becoming?

[Cavernio]

What Devonin said.

You're happy to learn about what China's like as examples of what communism really is, yet ignoring everyone who says its not communist. Strict laws to keep the peace does not mean its communist. As to your questions about Korea, neither South nor North Korea is communist. South Korea elects a president, North Korea is a dictatorship. If you want to call dictatorships communist, well then of course they suck.

Secondly, the definition of communism does not necessarily mean the state controls everything. Its the people who control things. Once a state forcibly takes control, then communism no longer exists.

The people who I've talked to who seem to hold worst views of communism come from eastern Europe, probably people who've lived in the USSR and the aftermath of it.

As to belief in God and communism, the 2 really have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. Whatever your dad is spewing is probably a specific example of some dictator's ideals which were then forced upon that country, or something.

[hayatewillown]

If you're interested in any novels which may give an Idea (and possibly a side for you),
Read 1984. It's a good read.

[devonin]

1984 has absolutely nothing to do with communism.

[Calcium Deposit]

"1984" was an autocratic dystopia. The main themes were oppression, invasion of privacy, dumbing down of society, and government corruption rather than an economical plan based on equal distribution.

[Vendetta21]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

This is a pretty interesting proxy-communist movie that shows how the philosophy is a lot deeper and more interesting than one would initially assume.

At the very least, watching it may expand your mental horizons beyond a dichotomy between Capitalism and Communism where they span the poles between "good" and "bad."

[AquaTeen]

Communism is wrong because you lose your sense of individuality because you have people controlling what you wear, how you feel, what you can and can't learn about, and they choose your religion and if you go against their rules it's the Ax for you... Read George Orwell's 1984 it explains what it's like under "Big Brother's" (Government's) rule and what it's like to be communist and what happens when you go against them and while you're at reading that, read George Orwell's Animal Farm again it explains everything so this way it teaches why communism is bad and everything... hope this helped

[devonin]

It helped especially in light of the post several posts above pointing out that 1984 has nothing at all to do with communism. Which is to say it didn't help.

[wargasm1]

imo communism is no worse than capitalism. A system that allows people to make hundreds of times more money than others is fail.

Heres a list of the worlds top billionnaires http://www.forbes.com/wealth/billionaires

Doesnt that make u wanna buy a gun and shoot people?

[AquaTeen]

Originally Posted by devonin

1984 has absolutely nothing to do with communism.

1984 had lots to do with Communism if you think about it a Communist rule is also known as a Totalitarianistic rule which means one person, in 1984's case "Big Brother", is there to make sure you follow the rules of Communism and if you don't follow, you're made an "Unperson" or killed for that matter so if you read it closely and understand what it's saying then you would understand that it IS about Communism but I also mentioned Animal Farm so it should have helped looks like there are a lot of people out here that doesn't understand George Orwell's literature and it's relation to Communism -.-

[~kitty~]

I just think the sense of individualism in America is strong so an idea like Communism doesn't appeal to people who already have money. Those who struggle in Capitalism would start to enjoy the idea of Communism unless they otherwise think they can climb the ladder. That's probably why it started to become a growing idea in America because most people are actually not very well off here. There are plenty of socialist programs we use in America, as well. People enjoy those and ask for them without knowing that Socialism has some connection to Communism. If I'm wrong about something, feel free to correct me.

[Cavernio]

Originally Posted by ~kitty~

I just think the sense of individualism in America is strong so an idea like Communism doesn't appeal to people who already have money. Those who struggle in Capitalism would start to enjoy the idea of Communism unless they otherwise think they can climb the ladder. That's probably why it started to become a growing idea in America because most people are actually not very well off here. There are plenty of socialist programs we use in America, as well. People enjoy those and ask for them without knowing that Socialism has some connection to Communism. If I'm wrong about something, feel free to correct me.

What you say all makes sense, and I'm sure is how some people are, but yet I still have to question why you think people must always have solely, individual selfish reasons for believing something? People are capable of thinking beyond themselves and what something means for themselves you know. Afterall, if you can logically infer things about others, others can infer the same things that happen to other people. Not every opinion someone has is deepseated in improving their own selves. Or if if is, then that self-improvement could be based upon doing things like helping others, or trying to figure out the world in the way that makes the most sense, and therefore such things supersede an individual's need to have more money or feel safe, or whatever else you think ultimately drives people.
I'm sure there are wealthy people out there who believe in communism, but for some reason I think you'd think those people must have some sort of alteriour motive for wanting communism, like thinking they could somehow do better by taking advantage of the system.

Besides which, I thought the idea of communism took hold in the US during the 50's where, so I've heard, the middle-class was much larger, and if this is true, then your reasons are somewhat invalid.

Sorry, this is a tangent. I'm upset about other stuff where apparently I must have deep-seated fear of not having a spirit because I'm a dualist, and you are applying the same principles that you used for me, in determining why someone would support communism.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by Cavernio

What you say all makes sense, and I'm sure is how some people are, but yet I still have to question why you think people must always have solely, individual selfish reasons for believing something? People are capable of thinking beyond themselves and what something means for themselves you know. Afterall, if you can logically infer things about others, others can infer the same things that happen to other people. Not every opinion someone has is deepseated in improving their own selves. Or if if is, then that self-improvement could be based upon doing things like helping others, or trying to figure out the world in the way that makes the most sense, and therefore such things supersede an individual's need to have more money or feel safe, or whatever else you think ultimately drives people.
I'm sure there are wealthy people out there who believe in communism, but for some reason I think you'd think those people must have some sort of alteriour motive for wanting communism, like thinking they could somehow do better by taking advantage of the system.

Besides which, I thought the idea of communism took hold in the US during the 50's where, so I've heard, the middle-class was much larger, and if this is true, then your reasons are somewhat invalid.

Sorry, this is a tangent. I'm upset about other stuff where apparently I must have deep-seated fear of not having a spirit because I'm a dualist, and you are applying the same principles that you used for me, in determining why someone would support communism.

A few things... I never said anything about people solely being selfish, I did not assume that there's no such thing as somebody who did not only work at improving themselves. In America, it's a lot more prevalent. Also, wealthy people are LESS LIKELY to give in to the idea of Communism.

Even if we say a majority of people are middle class, there's also a lot of people below middle class. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it gets pretty large and middle class people sometimes have the illusion that they aren't as well off as they think they are. Many people who are of lower class think they might be middle class, as well. It kind of gets confusing there, but that's not the point. It boils down to the overall condition we have in America and how Capitalism creates a large gap between the "haves" and "have nots".

I don't have the proper knowledge to tell you if everyone is inherently selfish and only act for others based on their own personal gain or not, but I believe it is possible that no person truly is unselfish.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by AquaTeen

1984 had lots to do with Communism if you think about it a Communist rule is also known as a Totalitarianistic rule which means one person, in 1984's case "Big Brother", is there to make sure you follow the rules of Communism and if you don't follow, you're made an "Unperson" or killed for that matter so if you read it closely and understand what it's saying then you would understand that it IS about Communism but I also mentioned Animal Farm so it should have helped looks like there are a lot of people out here that doesn't understand George Orwell's literature and it's relation to Communism -.-

Communist "Rule" is a meaningless term, nobody rules a communist state. If there is a Totalitarianism, you do not have a communism. You are misusing the term and equating two things which are not equal. An actual functioning communist state has no 'Big Brother' or need for one. Intrinsic in actual communism is a vested interest in that system from everyone in it.

If you don't follow the rules, you are simply not a part of that community. I can't see a reason why you would -need- to be killed in that case, unless you decided to try and still take resources by violence or force of arms.

1984 does not describe a communist state. Full stop.

[fido123]

Most people in this thread seem to have formed their idea of what communism is from Cold War propaganda. Communism is an economical system and nothing more. It doesn't mean you're restricted to a certain religion or you loose you individuality, it just means equal distribution of wealth very simply put.

[wargasm1]

Originally Posted by fido123

Most people in this thread seem to have formed their idea of what communism is from Cold War propaganda. Communism is an economical system and nothing more. It doesn't mean you're restricted to a certain religion or you loose you individuality, it just means equal distribution of wealth very simply put.

yes exactly. I don't think the human race will make it past this century if we don't start adressing the wealth distribution problem. We suck for doing nothing about it.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by fido123

Most people in this thread seem to have formed their idea of what communism is from Cold War propaganda. Communism is an economical system and nothing more. It doesn't mean you're restricted to a certain religion or you loose you individuality, it just means equal distribution of wealth very simply put.

That's a point hard to convey to others. I don't understand what's difficult to understand about that.

[wargasm1]

fgsgs