TWG Penalty Thread

[Charu]

Right, I mentioned that when I voiced my opinion.

Flaming and trolling is fine within the game (just as long you don't throw personal dribble to help that cause). Out of the game though, naw.

[Charu]

In hindsight, I shouldn't have a replacement list to begin with, but after countless TWG's on here, I kind of just assumed it was going to happen, regardless of what this thread is about and whatnot, dohoho.

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

IMO for all cases forward it's a level 2 infracion.

In this case since this thread had no rules and we're making things up as we go along essentially lets do a 1.5 level infraction

game ban and 1 game replacement req.

i dont think so. for out of game flaming, it should just be dealt with as sitewide flaming (excluding TGB of course)

i dont think that flaming about TWG should incur any kind of TWG game ban, those should only be for things done during games.

[FoJaR]

basically if out of game flaming warrants a forum ban, so be it. but it's something that happened out of game, and shouldnt have anything to do with TWG bans.

in this case jrodd played as best he could in game and didnt cheat. he's getting a forum ban, for flaming. end of story.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

i dont think so. for out of game flaming, it should just be dealt with as sitewide flaming (excluding TGB of course)

i dont think that flaming about TWG should incur any kind of TWG game ban, those should only be for things done during games.

I hold higher standards for the people playing TWG then I do for the people on the rest of the forum.

This subforum is a community. I expect everyone to be treated with base respect on a person to person basis. J-rodd took plenty of in game shots at another player, and then kept taking shots at them after the game is over.

Yep, thats flaming, Yep, that probably got him a 3-5 day sitewide ban. It's unacceptable behavior for the FFR forum. It's also unacceptable behavior for a TWG player. I don't expect complete professionals out of everyone, but I do expect people to stop antagonizing each other once the game is over. Exempting him from any type of TWG punishment basically condones the behavior.

[FoJaR]

well, i think his points were valid. he had every right to continue to voice those opinions after the game was over, especially in this thread.

what wasnt okay was how he did it. when you cross the site rules like that you get a site ban.

he earned his site ban, it shouldnt cross over into game bans

[FoJaR]

and i dont think you should hold higher standards for TWG players. the penalty should be specific to the offense.

you cheat in a game or ruin the game for other players and you dont get a site wide ban. you get a TWG game ban.

you flame or break site rules, you dont get a TWG ban, you get a site ban.

[DarkManticoreX2]

As far as I'm concerned, breaking a forum wide rule in this subforum should stack. I understand if you disagree though. TWG players have two rulesets to conform to in this subforum.

[mellonxcollie]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

As far as I'm concerned, breaking a forum wide rule in this subforum should stack. I understand if you disagree though. TWG players have two rulesets to conform to in this subforum.

But are there rules about flaming in this subforum and that stacking onto game bans? Why should Jrodd have expected that? Personally, I expect TWG players to be able to handle a certain amount of "heat" from people even though I wouldn't necessarily expect that from everyone. Obviously in this case Jrodd was way over the line and I don't think anybody is debating that he deserves his forum ban, but honestly I can kind of see where he might get the idea that that sort of thing is OK in the context of TWG. There is a reason the tagline for TWG on FFya was once "A douchebag game for assholes"

I don't know, I agree with Fojar 100%, but either way I see this as a damn slippery slope (and I hate that argument with a passion)

[FoJaR]

well is this something that we're going to decide as a group or are you just doing it?

[Tps222]

I'm torn between wanting to create an enviornment that fosters growth in the playerbase while still maintaining the integrity of the game. Allowing out of thread talking would really help new players, but would hurt visible forum activity for studying players.

In general TWG is a game for a certain mindset, and some people will just not enjoy the intense roleplaying it requires. That's fine. What I don't like seeing is people quitting/asking for replacements because of the way they've been treated by other players outside of the game itself. Its like football: you run out there and violently destroy someone to the best of your abilities, and then when the play is over, you reach out your hand and help them up. If you don't like being hit, don't play.

The jrodd situation was completely fine by me until it poured into this thread. I hope he realizes he went a bit overboard with his message, I have no problems playing with him again.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Originally Posted by Tps222

The jrodd situation was completely fine by me until it poured into this thread. I hope he realizes he went a bit overboard with his message, I have no problems playing with him again.

Just to be clear, J-rodd wasn't TWG banned for anything he did in game.

It was the out of game harrassment that did it.

If we want to promote the growth of TWG, and get new people to play, we can't have things like that. It scares people off, and give readers a negative viewpoint of what TWG is.

I proposed J-rodd's TWG ban because it's not the attitude I want in this forum. Fight as hard as you can in a game. Once the game is over, drop the attitude, drop the malice, drop the trolling. Shake hands. Whatever you were fighting about in the game is over. Go back to treating the other person with respect.

[FoJaR]

a douchebag game for assholes

[FoJaR]

essentially you are punishing jrodd for being too into TWG.

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

If we want to promote the growth of TWG, and get new people to play, we can't have things like that. It scares people off, and give readers a negative viewpoint of what TWG is.

i honestly dont care about that. we have so many people signing up for games that we overfill two concurrent games. i would rather retain the people who have passion for the game than tiptoe around people's feelings.

I proposed J-rodd's TWG ban because it's not the attitude I want in this forum. Fight as hard as you can in a game. Once the game is over, drop the attitude, drop the malice, drop the trolling. Shake hands. Whatever you were fighting about in the game is over. Go back to treating the other person with respect.

see, normally i would agree. win or lose, it's good sportsmanship outside the game EXCEPT when there isnt fair play. when there isnt fair play, the sentiment is naturally going to extend beyond the game thread, to threads like these. jrodd's felt like the game was ruined by less than fair play, and it was only natural for him to bring that here. the only thing he did wrong was take it too far. that part is what goes against the forum rules, and that's why he got the forum ban. his overall point and ATTITUDE belonged in this thread, how he went about expressing it did not.

[FoJaR]

honestly i feel like jrodd had an absolute right to be mad AT psycho in this thread. what he didnt have a right to do was say the things that he did.

he deserves to be punished for the things he said, but not for being upset and expressing it, and i feel like that's why the line should be drawn at a forum ban.

[mellonxcollie]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

Just to be clear, J-rodd wasn't TWG banned for anything he did in game.

It was the out of game harrassment that did it.

I understand. I think that this is setting a precedent though and if we want to TWG ban players for being dicks outside of active game threads, we need to establish a concrete rule about that.

Also: TPS has raised the excellent and yet-to-be-raised point that out-of-thread talking would probably help new players a hell of a lot. New players could come to me, or Danceguy, or anybody else they know are willing to help new players out without even mentioning anything to the thread at all. I don't think we need to run a specific jTWG but we can try to make games that have mechanics that are better for new players (ie. out of thread talking allowed, only standard roles, smaller player list etc) while simultaneously running more complex games.

[mellonxcollie]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

honestly i feel like jrodd had an absolute right to be mad AT psycho in this thread. what he didnt have a right to do was say the things that he did.

he deserves to be punished for the things he said, but not for being upset and expressing it, and i feel like that's why the line should be drawn at a forum ban.

I agree with you

[Tps222]

Originally Posted by Raeko

I don't think we need to run a specific jTWG but we can try to make games that have mechanics that are better for new players (ie. out of thread talking allowed, only standard roles, smaller player list etc) while simultaneously running more complex games.

Absolutely this. That was more of my intention for the game I'm currently hosting, but I strayed away from that for balance concerns when I probably shouldn't. If we still maintain the interest for 2 games, I'd like to see this happening next. Even veteran players enjoy a vanilla game to hone in on fundamental skills now and then.

[FoJaR]

out of thread talking is not vanilla.

vanilla is same room.