TWG XIV - Michigan Meetup - Day 6 - HUMAN VICTORY - Page 4

Kefit · 04-20-2005, 12:29 PM

People seem to be assuming that Tass is going to do all their work for them, and that they don't need to do a damn thing in order for the humans to win this game.

The problem with this is that it provides too easy of an excuse for the wolves to just sit back and do nothing too. If they feel no obligation to contribute, then they won't attempt to do so, and the possibility of garnering a lead from a wolf screw-up is eliminated. Thus, while I usually hate looking at those who are inactive, I think it is warrented this game.

So far I have seen three people use this excuse for inactivity that rub me the wrong way, particularly since they usually contribute quite a bit - Alain, Blah, and Guido. Alain's recent post alleviates my concerns towards him, and I get the feeling that blah would relish his position as a wolf and be trying to manipulate us in someway or another. This leaves Guido, who according to Tass has been just as inactive on aim as he has been in this thread.

flux_ · 04-20-2005, 01:00 PM

jenova expressed what he and I do nicely; just because I don't post a lot doesn't me I'm not watching, it simply means I have nothing positive to contribute to the game at that time. I come into chats and stay when there's talk of TWG actually going on.

I vote for alain

Alain claims that whorli is making an attempt to look too human. Basically what alain pointed out was that with a 99% chance that Tass is a human, we don't need to waste a see on him and congratulating the guardian for a successful job. Those both made sense and I'm sure he wanted to point out to the seer that he could most likely trust Tass, which may not be realised by a newer player.
There was nothing about whorli that made what he said more suspicious than what anyone else said. Kilga and Mead both make comments pressing humanity right after the night. Why not attack them?

Next the voting for Qreepy thing, which whorli kind of pointed out, but I'd like to add that many people here are throwing out avoiding-phantoms votes. Why attack just one person? Possibly another point to add to your accusation to make it look more solid?

Finally you say that he is changing his opinions to be on the good side...I looked through the thread, and I can't find any places where that happened. Did i miss something in the chat? Could you post it? In fact, he defends his opinion about seeing Tass once. Looks like one more thing to beef up your argument.

To me, it seems alain just randomly picked someone and either exagerated things, took them out of context, or made it up. Seems like something a wolf would do.

whorlichan · 04-20-2005, 01:06 PM

(flux, no offense...but I'm a girl.)

**Tasselfoot** · 04-20-2005, 01:07 PM

Just got home guys. If you wanna talk TWG, we got a little under 2 hours to do it. I'm available to chat.

I don't have enough time to do a big analysis on the voting/accusations, but fear not, I'll have one before day 3 starts. (I like having 2 days worth of voting data to use).

Another note to clarify: I have not confirmed or denied reports as to whether I know the seer, guardian, or psychic. I may know 0, 1, 2, or 3 of them. If I know 1 or more, then only those who are also involved know. Anyone who is on the outside will remain on the outside concerning this information. The less the wolves know, the better. So, again, NO ONE outside of my "circle" knows who, if anyone, has contacted me.

**Tasselfoot** · 04-20-2005, 01:22 PM

Aight.... the way things are going, nforcer is screwed. I do not in any way know if this is the correct or incorrect move, BUT...

my vote is going to blah. i know he's been doing similar things as he usually does, but i've been getting this terrible vibe from him, even on night 1, that something was different. he just hasn't backed down on me at all in trying to find out information, has been seriously discussing the possibility that i'm a wolf... and, from anyone but blah, I'd imagine they are insane, but with blah, I have to look deeper. Why would he do it? makes me really think he is human. OK, but to go a step further, blah would figure that I would assume that he was being a desperate human trying to get in the inner circle. so he does that to take suspicion off him from me, while still getting some from others.

Combine that with the fact that I think nforcer is human... although I'm not sure. I feel that he's had a problem before with saying stupid things on day 1 and getting killed for it, while being human. So, blah buddy... speak to me. maybe you have something to say in your defense.

Also, if blah gets lynched, that is ok, but I don't want everyone to bandwagon onto my vote. I do think nforcer isn't a wolf, so I'd rather not lynch him today, but, if you don't feel blah is worthy of a vote, then don't vote him.

**Tasselfoot** · 04-20-2005, 01:28 PM

nforcer: 3 (chardish, mead, Qreepy)
Gamepro: 2 (nforcer, gamepro)
Qreepy: 1 (whorli)
Flux: 1 (talisman)
whorli: 1 (alain)
blah: 2 (Kilga, Tass)
Guido: 1 (Kefit)
Alain: 1 (flux)

Still to vote: blah, Guido, Hans, Jenova (4)

mead1 · 04-20-2005, 01:40 PM

You know, after a chat with nforcer, I am feeling a bit more confident of his humanity. However, my vote now turns to alain. flux made some very good points on him. He has really shoddy reasoning for voting whorli. On most anyone else, this would be acceptable, but I've seen alain in previous games, and he is acting a bit differently. He has never seemed to be one to home in on just one, normally he takes the liberty of shooting down every theory that has been thrown out, and casting suspicion on several people, but this time he just made one, rather weak, case. This speaks to me as being totally unlike him. So with that, my vote is cast.

**lightdarkness** · 04-20-2005, 01:53 PM

1 hour.

nforcer: 2 (chardish, Qreepy)
Gamepro: 2 (nforcer, Gamepro)
Alain: 2 (flux, mead1)
blah: 2 (Kilga, Tass)
Qreepy: 1 (whorli)
Flux: 1 (talisman)
whorli: 1 (alain)
Guido: 1 (Kefit)

Still to vote: blah, Guido, Hans, Jenova

We be using Eastern time, NOT FFR time.

**talisman** · 04-20-2005, 01:55 PM

Alright... it doesn't seem like anything major has developed since last night. I'm still leery of nforcer's early behavior, but I don't really know if that's enough to lynch a person. Although, to be fair, it seems the only votes people have given are because of behavioral observations. Whatever.

I don't have time to sift through the alain/whorli thing because I have to go to dinner right now. I think I'll leave my vote as it is, because I really don't have any firm feelings about either blah or alain or nforcer, so whatever happens happens, and I of course don't want a phantom, and I don't think flux is in any danger here.

HansSky · 04-20-2005, 02:27 PM

Sorry, I just woke up, and don't have almost no time. I'm going to stick with my original thoughs and vote nforcer.

**Tasselfoot** · 04-20-2005, 02:47 PM

Blah, Guido, Jenova... why have you not voted?

**alainbryden** · 04-20-2005, 02:50 PM

To defend my position, mead, I have a hard time believing that you found good points in flux's post when I found it so incoherent and difficult to understand, let alone justify. Perhaps my attack on whorli pushed evidence further than its worth, but I was pursuing and overall negative feeling towards whorlichans response to tass' position of power thus far in the game. I don't safe chat logs, so I can't gather quotes from which I put together my feeling that she was being complacent in general. I was in chat with her at a time you guys weren't, and you would have missed something that I saw that formed my opinion.

Now flux, that is my defence for my vote, but you have shown hypocricy in your post. You were going after me for attacking one person out of many who made comment of comparable questionability, even though I had a reason for the specific comment I was attacking. You then noted on the overall shabby reasoning of other people. So you are critisizing my attack of one person who you say has made comments comperable to many others, yet you are attacking my reasoning, which you determine to be inconsistent, despite acknowleging all round inconsistent reasoning by others. Hypocricy noted I hope.

Finally flux, there are people more active then me, but then you are less active than I, and you cannot base your vote because I observed on something you weren't around to see. So don't.

**Rebirth0** · 04-20-2005, 02:50 PM

I can see why Guido hasn't, he can't be in the chats but he can still go off what has been posted. Jenova and blah I don't know. Day ends about now?

nforcer06164 · 04-20-2005, 02:51 PM

Ever since blah made his post about waiting to see how things developed, I've been a bit suspicious. Since then, he's been lurking in the shadows, making a presence on AIM (though I haven't talked to him) but steering clear of the thread. Why doesn't he make his suspicions of Tass's humanity more clear? It doesn't sit with me right, and is grounds enough to change my vote.

**lightdarkness** · 04-20-2005, 02:54 PM

Knife in box

Will post info in a sec

**lightdarkness** · 04-20-2005, 02:58 PM

Waiting on blah to place knife, nforcer has chosen a box.

Special roles can send me info if they'd like.

**Kilgamayan** · 04-20-2005, 02:59 PM

lightdarkness42: OK
NEIGH006: are you doing /roll in here
NEIGH006: ?
lightdarkness42: IF I ROLL A 1, NFORCER PLACES KNIFE
lightdarkness42: IF I ROLL A 2, BLAH PLACES
bjstrattonIM: Okay, knife in the box
bjstrattonIM: Oh
nforcer06164: ?
OnlineHost: lightdarkness42 rolled 1 1-sided die: 1
bjstrattonIM: nvm
bjstrattonIM: lol lag
bjstrattonIM: what the gay :<
lightdarkness42: NFORCER PLACES
WhorliChan: um
WhorliChan: dude
Kefit42: XD
NEIGH006: dumbass
NEIGH006: haha
nforcer06164: huh?
Kefit42: nice one sided die
WhorliChan: if it's only got 1 side
lightdarkness42: wtf
lightdarkness42: I put 2
NEIGH006: roll a 2 sided dice
bjstrattonIM: XD
QreepyBORIS: Hahahha
WhorliChan: doesn't it ALWAYS land on 1?
NEIGH006: HAHAH
Kefit42: ld rolls one dimensional dice!
QreepyBORIS: Wow
QreepyBORIS: quite the KIB
NEIGH006: nice
OnlineHost: lightdarkness42 rolled 1 2-sided die: 2
bjstrattonIM: POSTING IN THREAD
bjstrattonIM: BRB
lightdarkness42: OK
lightdarkness42: BLAH PLACES
lightdarkness42: lol

**lightdarkness** · 04-20-2005, 06:47 PM

Everyone gathered around the DDR machine.

“Alright everyone” starts LD, “have you come to a decision?”

A collective “yes” came from around the room.

“nforcer has the most votes” says Tass.

“Very well” says LD, “You must play Max 300 until you pass out, AND DIE!”

“What!!! I thought we were just playing around!” shouts nforcer, “You can’t be serious!”

“I was seriously attacked!” shouts Tass, “This has to be done”

“This is a joke, I’m gonna talk to Synth and get you demoded LD!” threatens nforcer

“Good luck with that…. NOW DANCE!”

nforcer begins playing Max 300, it only takes 4 times of playing it until he passes out. He is then dragged into the kitchen, and thrown out the window.

“Well… this is the part where night starts guys…” says LD

“We know” says Whorli, “Should we have some sort of plan?”

“We just have to hope the guardian is still alive” hopes Flux

“Indeed… I’ll be playing IIDX if any of you need me.” LD says as he walks away.

Night 2.

Send me PM’s/IM’s.

EDIT: So you are aware, because blah failed to appear online, a random dice roll determined who would die.

**lightdarkness** · 04-21-2005, 11:16 AM

Chardish was playing Max 300 on the DDR Machine. He was almost at the "Woah!" part when the power was cut. A scream heard from across the room made everyone stand still.

The lights came back on

"HOLY SHIT!" Shouts Tass, "HANS IS DEAD!"

Everyone was very weary of what was going on around the room

"Very well, 48 hours. Insta at 8" Says LD

Sorry for the short story, tons of HW tonight. the next day/night's storys will rock.

**Tasselfoot** · 04-21-2005, 11:24 AM

Aight... I need to say this, because there are 3 potentials. Hans was blue. Two people had a STRONG knowledge of this outside of any group I may have had. They didn't know which blue, so I'll leave that in the air too. Those 2 people... Blah and Kilga.

The 3rd potential is coincedence. And, frankly... I hate to believe that.

So, gimme input guys.

PS - nForcer was human, just as I said. As per psychic.

04-20-2005, 01:00 PM	#62
flux_ FFR Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 33	jenova expressed what he and I do nicely; just because I don't post a lot doesn't me I'm not watching, it simply means I have nothing positive to contribute to the game at that time. I come into chats and stay when there's talk of TWG actually going on. I vote for alain Alain claims that whorli is making an attempt to look too human. Basically what alain pointed out was that with a 99% chance that Tass is a human, we don't need to waste a see on him and congratulating the guardian for a successful job. Those both made sense and I'm sure he wanted to point out to the seer that he could most likely trust Tass, which may not be realised by a newer player. There was nothing about whorli that made what he said more suspicious than what anyone else said. Kilga and Mead both make comments pressing humanity right after the night. Why not attack them? Next the voting for Qreepy thing, which whorli kind of pointed out, but I'd like to add that many people here are throwing out avoiding-phantoms votes. Why attack just one person? Possibly another point to add to your accusation to make it look more solid? Finally you say that he is changing his opinions to be on the good side...I looked through the thread, and I can't find any places where that happened. Did i miss something in the chat? Could you post it? In fact, he defends his opinion about seeing Tass once. Looks like one more thing to beef up your argument. To me, it seems alain just randomly picked someone and either exagerated things, took them out of context, or made it up. Seems like something a wolf would do. __________________

04-20-2005, 01:06 PM	#63
whorlichan Tiny Plastic Meat Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Valley, Los Angeles Age: 40 Posts: 669	(flux, no offense...but I'm a girl.) __________________ Goddess of Chocolate Sauce First ever graduate of the Quetzacoatino Academy for Aspiring Deities My lame LJ My friend Cassie's amazing photography

04-20-2005, 01:07 PM	#64
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	Just got home guys. If you wanna talk TWG, we got a little under 2 hours to do it. I'm available to chat. I don't have enough time to do a big analysis on the voting/accusations, but fear not, I'll have one before day 3 starts. (I like having 2 days worth of voting data to use). Another note to clarify: I have not confirmed or denied reports as to whether I know the seer, guardian, or psychic. I may know 0, 1, 2, or 3 of them. If I know 1 or more, then only those who are also involved know. Anyone who is on the outside will remain on the outside concerning this information. The less the wolves know, the better. So, again, NO ONE outside of my "circle" knows who, if anyone, has contacted me. __________________ RIP

04-20-2005, 01:22 PM	#65
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	Aight.... the way things are going, nforcer is screwed. I do not in any way know if this is the correct or incorrect move, BUT... my vote is going to blah. i know he's been doing similar things as he usually does, but i've been getting this terrible vibe from him, even on night 1, that something was different. he just hasn't backed down on me at all in trying to find out information, has been seriously discussing the possibility that i'm a wolf... and, from anyone but blah, I'd imagine they are insane, but with blah, I have to look deeper. Why would he do it? makes me really think he is human. OK, but to go a step further, blah would figure that I would assume that he was being a desperate human trying to get in the inner circle. so he does that to take suspicion off him from me, while still getting some from others. Combine that with the fact that I think nforcer is human... although I'm not sure. I feel that he's had a problem before with saying stupid things on day 1 and getting killed for it, while being human. So, blah buddy... speak to me. maybe you have something to say in your defense. Also, if blah gets lynched, that is ok, but I don't want everyone to bandwagon onto my vote. I do think nforcer isn't a wolf, so I'd rather not lynch him today, but, if you don't feel blah is worthy of a vote, then don't vote him. __________________ RIP

04-20-2005, 01:28 PM	#66
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	nforcer: 3 (chardish, mead, Qreepy) Gamepro: 2 (nforcer, gamepro) Qreepy: 1 (whorli) Flux: 1 (talisman) whorli: 1 (alain) blah: 2 (Kilga, Tass) Guido: 1 (Kefit) Alain: 1 (flux) Still to vote: blah, Guido, Hans, Jenova (4) __________________ RIP

04-20-2005, 12:29 PM	#61
Kefit FFR Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,517	People seem to be assuming that Tass is going to do all their work for them, and that they don't need to do a damn thing in order for the humans to win this game. The problem with this is that it provides too easy of an excuse for the wolves to just sit back and do nothing too. If they feel no obligation to contribute, then they won't attempt to do so, and the possibility of garnering a lead from a wolf screw-up is eliminated. Thus, while I usually hate looking at those who are inactive, I think it is warrented this game. So far I have seen three people use this excuse for inactivity that rub me the wrong way, particularly since they usually contribute quite a bit - Alain, Blah, and Guido. Alain's recent post alleviates my concerns towards him, and I get the feeling that blah would relish his position as a wolf and be trying to manipulate us in someway or another. This leaves Guido, who according to Tass has been just as inactive on aim as he has been in this thread.

04-20-2005, 01:40 PM	#67
mead1 Cerebellumberjack Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: On a boat Age: 33 Posts: 3,960	You know, after a chat with nforcer, I am feeling a bit more confident of his humanity. However, my vote now turns to alain. flux made some very good points on him. He has really shoddy reasoning for voting whorli. On most anyone else, this would be acceptable, but I've seen alain in previous games, and he is acting a bit differently. He has never seemed to be one to home in on just one, normally he takes the liberty of shooting down every theory that has been thrown out, and casting suspicion on several people, but this time he just made one, rather weak, case. This speaks to me as being totally unlike him. So with that, my vote is cast.

04-20-2005, 01:53 PM	#68
lightdarkness Summer!! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 11,308	1 hour. nforcer: 2 (chardish, Qreepy) Gamepro: 2 (nforcer, Gamepro) Alain: 2 (flux, mead1) blah: 2 (Kilga, Tass) Qreepy: 1 (whorli) Flux: 1 (talisman) whorli: 1 (alain) Guido: 1 (Kefit) Still to vote: blah, Guido, Hans, Jenova We be using Eastern time, NOT FFR time. __________________

04-20-2005, 01:55 PM	#69
talisman Resident Penguin Join Date: May 2003 Age: 37 Posts: 4,598	Alright... it doesn't seem like anything major has developed since last night. I'm still leery of nforcer's early behavior, but I don't really know if that's enough to lynch a person. Although, to be fair, it seems the only votes people have given are because of behavioral observations. Whatever. I don't have time to sift through the alain/whorli thing because I have to go to dinner right now. I think I'll leave my vote as it is, because I really don't have any firm feelings about either blah or alain or nforcer, so whatever happens happens, and I of course don't want a phantom, and I don't think flux is in any danger here.

04-20-2005, 02:27 PM	#70
HansSky FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ----> Age: 36 Posts: 1,925	Sorry, I just woke up, and don't have almost no time. I'm going to stick with my original thoughs and vote nforcer. __________________ hi

04-20-2005, 02:47 PM	#71
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	Blah, Guido, Jenova... why have you not voted? __________________ RIP

04-20-2005, 02:50 PM	#72
alainbryden Seen your member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: noitacoL Posts: 2,873	To defend my position, mead, I have a hard time believing that you found good points in flux's post when I found it so incoherent and difficult to understand, let alone justify. Perhaps my attack on whorli pushed evidence further than its worth, but I was pursuing and overall negative feeling towards whorlichans response to tass' position of power thus far in the game. I don't safe chat logs, so I can't gather quotes from which I put together my feeling that she was being complacent in general. I was in chat with her at a time you guys weren't, and you would have missed something that I saw that formed my opinion. Now flux, that is my defence for my vote, but you have shown hypocricy in your post. You were going after me for attacking one person out of many who made comment of comparable questionability, even though I had a reason for the specific comment I was attacking. You then noted on the overall shabby reasoning of other people. So you are critisizing my attack of one person who you say has made comments comperable to many others, yet you are attacking my reasoning, which you determine to be inconsistent, despite acknowleging all round inconsistent reasoning by others. Hypocricy noted I hope. Finally flux, there are people more active then me, but then you are less active than I, and you cannot base your vote because I observed on something you weren't around to see. So don't. __________________ ~NEIGH

04-20-2005, 02:50 PM	#73
Rebirth0 FFR Originalbro Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Age: 33 Posts: 8,750	I can see why Guido hasn't, he can't be in the chats but he can still go off what has been posted. Jenova and blah I don't know. Day ends about now?

04-20-2005, 02:54 PM	#75
lightdarkness Summer!! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 11,308	Knife in box Will post info in a sec __________________

04-20-2005, 02:58 PM	#76
lightdarkness Summer!! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 11,308	Waiting on blah to place knife, nforcer has chosen a box. Special roles can send me info if they'd like. __________________

04-20-2005, 02:59 PM	#77
Kilgamayan Super Scooter Happy Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Location, Location. Age: 39 Posts: 6,583	lightdarkness42: OK NEIGH006: are you doing /roll in here NEIGH006: ? lightdarkness42: IF I ROLL A 1, NFORCER PLACES KNIFE lightdarkness42: IF I ROLL A 2, BLAH PLACES bjstrattonIM: Okay, knife in the box bjstrattonIM: Oh nforcer06164: ? OnlineHost: lightdarkness42 rolled 1 1-sided die: 1 bjstrattonIM: nvm bjstrattonIM: lol lag bjstrattonIM: what the gay :< lightdarkness42: NFORCER PLACES WhorliChan: um WhorliChan: dude Kefit42: XD NEIGH006: dumbass NEIGH006: haha nforcer06164: huh? Kefit42: nice one sided die WhorliChan: if it's only got 1 side lightdarkness42: wtf lightdarkness42: I put 2 NEIGH006: roll a 2 sided dice bjstrattonIM: XD QreepyBORIS: Hahahha WhorliChan: doesn't it ALWAYS land on 1? NEIGH006: HAHAH Kefit42: ld rolls one dimensional dice! QreepyBORIS: Wow QreepyBORIS: quite the KIB NEIGH006: nice OnlineHost: lightdarkness42 rolled 1 2-sided die: 2 bjstrattonIM: POSTING IN THREAD bjstrattonIM: BRB lightdarkness42: OK lightdarkness42: BLAH PLACES lightdarkness42: lol __________________ I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds.

04-20-2005, 06:47 PM	#78
lightdarkness Summer!! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 11,308	Everyone gathered around the DDR machine. “Alright everyone” starts LD, “have you come to a decision?” A collective “yes” came from around the room. “nforcer has the most votes” says Tass. “Very well” says LD, “You must play Max 300 until you pass out, AND DIE!” “What!!! I thought we were just playing around!” shouts nforcer, “You can’t be serious!” “I was seriously attacked!” shouts Tass, “This has to be done” “This is a joke, I’m gonna talk to Synth and get you demoded LD!” threatens nforcer “Good luck with that…. NOW DANCE!” nforcer begins playing Max 300, it only takes 4 times of playing it until he passes out. He is then dragged into the kitchen, and thrown out the window. “Well… this is the part where night starts guys…” says LD “We know” says Whorli, “Should we have some sort of plan?” “We just have to hope the guardian is still alive” hopes Flux “Indeed… I’ll be playing IIDX if any of you need me.” LD says as he walks away. Night 2. Send me PM’s/IM’s. EDIT: So you are aware, because blah failed to appear online, a random dice roll determined who would die. __________________

04-21-2005, 11:16 AM	#79
lightdarkness Summer!! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York Age: 35 Posts: 11,308	Chardish was playing Max 300 on the DDR Machine. He was almost at the "Woah!" part when the power was cut. A scream heard from across the room made everyone stand still. The lights came back on "HOLY SHIT!" Shouts Tass, "HANS IS DEAD!" Everyone was very weary of what was going on around the room "Very well, 48 hours. Insta at 8" Says LD Sorry for the short story, tons of HW tonight. the next day/night's storys will rock. __________________

04-21-2005, 11:24 AM	#80
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	Aight... I need to say this, because there are 3 potentials. Hans was blue. Two people had a STRONG knowledge of this outside of any group I may have had. They didn't know which blue, so I'll leave that in the air too. Those 2 people... Blah and Kilga. The 3rd potential is coincedence. And, frankly... I hate to believe that. So, gimme input guys. PS - nForcer was human, just as I said. As per psychic. __________________ RIP

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