FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 4

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

woo boy, after getting a taste of Halcyon by playing for the AAA, I've got to say, that file is WICKED hard for a FMO. I like it though, because it stands out as something that doesn't quite fit as a FGO in structure.

Top of the line FMO, me thinks.

SAMBISTA gave me a few problems because backward rolling + up/down arrow beginning = LOL nope. Very high VC.

The other files were fun too - I can't decide between Kayla's file and bmah's wiinter dream for the best flowing file; both were really clean.

Jumper was alright. Nothing wrong with it, but a bit out of my tastes due to the nature of the song (a bit too simple).

I'll agree with this and consider no further discussion. Hardest FMO most def, but not quite FGO style. I agree.

[yo man im awesome]

Originally Posted by stavie33

A fun file is the most desirable, but a fun file is almost always a good file. You can't have a bad file and have it be fun. An incorrect file can be fun, but not a bad file. A bad file implies it's un-enjoyable to play or not synced/stepped to something completely different, which would then juxtapose the music and have it be less enjoyable. Correctness is one thing, but if the judges find a file fun, it generally gets a positive review. I've never seen 'this file is a blast to play! But it's so horribly stepped we have to give it a -'.

While yes, I don't think that's ever happened, I'm sure that files have rejected by more than a few points solely for incorrectness.

Take Dossar for example, he does a great job makin a really fun, difficult file without PR or overdoing it (see, Kidney Stone). Dossar is one of my favorite artists for that very reason.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by who_cares973

this is spoken by someone who is on the outside looking in. i dont even want to get into this argument again because its been recycled who knows how many times now and i really dont feel like repeating what ive said and what many others have said. but know this, you're wrong on so many levels

I can imagine how wrong I am, but I'm a stepartist too (not experienced very much at all, but enough to get around), and I know just how intimidating the file is. I can also understand how much this argument has been regurgitated at you, and I can understand you not wanting to repeat yourself. I unfortunately was absent for these arguments, and I would really like to hear the other side of this.

[who_cares973]

kidney stone is a shitty file

that statement is justified

[yo man im awesome]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

kidney stone is a shitty file

that statement is justified

In what way, how 'incorrect' it is, or is there a lack of fun? Because fun is subjective yes, and while correct-ness isn't, fun should still overtake it in priority.

[who_cares973]

i never said the file was incorrect i said it was shitty. the only way it would be incorrect would be if he placed ghost notes in the file which he didnt.

saying that fun should overtake priority is really really stupid because of the reason you said, fun is subjective and changes with every person. if i were to judge files based on fun i wouldve rejected more than 75% of the files that ive judged for ffr because i didnt find a majority of them fun. would you still say that fun should take over the correctness of a file? no. its the way its stepped that makes it shitty. the patterns he chose the bpm he chose and the transitions that are used. the file is pretty much stepped as hard as it can be without taking anything else into consideration. while i dont think this is entirely done on purpose because the caliber of the step artist determines what patterns are used its up to the step artist to take other players into consideration when stepping a file.

[bob bob]

D5 file is bad































very bad

[Mike Weedmark]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

kidney stone is a shitty file

that statement is justified

It really is, along with DeVour. wc, I agree with almost every post I see you make on a lot of things :P

Anyway, what I and Gundam-Dude said. What the hell does the file rating change?

I know this question was rhetorical, but honestly, it changes what I land on when I set the difficulty to 11-11 and click random. I don't always want to land on stuff that makes Grist and Blue Rose feel like a cakewalk when I was looking for something closer to Floating Hour. It's one of those things that seems like a nothing-problem until you've actually had it chip away at YOUR patience too.

It's also the principle. I don't want to have to say there are still FMOs I potentially get TDG on. It hurts my fingerpride

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by Mike Weedmark

It really is, along with DeVour. wc, I agree with almost every post I see you make on a lot of things :P

the only reason devour is in game is because of how many times xander send that god damned file to the batch and how tired all the judges were of playing it. also sweet

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

EDIT:


I can imagine how wrong I am, but I'm a stepartist too (not experienced very much at all, but enough to get around), and I know just how intimidating the file is. I can also understand how much this argument has been regurgitated at you, and I can understand you not wanting to repeat yourself. I unfortunately was absent for these arguments, and I would really like to hear the other side of this.

there is more to stepping a file than just technicality. ALSO FUN-NESS OF A FILE IS THE SUM OF ALL ASPECTS OF STEPPING AND NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED BY ITSELF.

technicality
fluidity
music relevance

these are the three things that make up FUN and depending on the song at hand and the stepartist there are varying degrees of each that go into the final file. until people realize this no one will get anywhere and it'll just be idiots running in circles chasing their own asses

[iironiic]

Since there are so many debatable files in terms of difficulty, why can't we just let high VCs + low FMOs be a new difficulty and high FMOs + low FGOs be a new difficulty? That way we'll have a 15 point scale and will probably be a temporary fix to the tension that is clearly apparent in this thread.

Also, I think we are all being confused and are arguing whether this file should be this or that difficulty because we don't know what to look for in difficulty. All of you guys have mentioned valid points, so an ideal and I suppose "most true" difficulty compensates the points all of you guys brought up.

Personally, I'd like to use files currently in game to help give me an idea as to what difficulty the new file is but that's a problem if people are still arguing whether FN or Lolo or any old file should be this difficulty or that. We need to be consistent overall with difficulty placements and put aside our strengths and weaknesses to come up with this value.

EDIT: Also keep in mind... as a community, all of our voices must be heard. This includes the people who are not capable of FCing these FMOs and FGOs. I encourage you guys to speak up because I'm tired of listening to only a few people arguing over these difficulties. It would be nice to have a D1's views on harder files.

[TC_Halogen]

Carlos: what do you mean by the sum of all stepping in a file? It almost seems like you're trying to say that a file has to have correctness in order to even be taken into consideration as a fun file, which is far from true.

I have no issue in bringing up a few files that lack in chart structure but still feel fun, like Dossar's {Lazy Summer Days} file on his brutality engine. Chart itself is created poorly (subjectivemanias) but it flows well and has a ton of replayability because of how fast it is. It's something that I find fun, but I can separate it from being a correct file.

[Mike Weedmark]

Originally Posted by iironiic

It would be nice to have a D1's views on harder files.

I agree with this, but it still makes me laugh. I imagine most of their responses to D5 and D6 stuff would be the same as mine used to: "how do you even do this shit without hacking? :/" hahahahaha

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Carlos: what do you mean by the sum of all stepping in a file? It almost seems like you're trying to say that a file has to have correctness in order to even be taken into consideration as a fun file, which is far from true.

I have no issue in bringing up a few files that lack in chart structure but still feel fun, like Dossar's {Lazy Summer Days} file on his brutality engine. Chart itself is created poorly (subjectivemanias) but it flows well and has a ton of replayability because of how fast it is. It's something that I find fun, but I can separate it from being a correct file.

proper sync and layering contribute to the correctness of a file. a file doesnt need to be 100% technical 100% fluid or 100% relevant to the music to be fun but there is always a percentage no matter how small that is contributed from each

[Mike Weedmark]

I don't know if my input is relevant, but a file I've always considered one of the funnest I've ever played is WAIWAI230. If you can figure out why that files rules my world so hard, you'd probably have a good starting point for rating any file. I think it's obvious it has to start with a song that's a joy to listen to.

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by Mike Weedmark

I agree with this, but it still makes me laugh. I imagine most of their responses to D5 and D6 stuff would be the same as mine used to: "how do you even do this shit without hacking? :/" hahahahaha

Well even if they can support their reasoning whether file A is harder than file B, that is at least something that can help us reach that "true difficulty." I'm sure they are really likely to say that and that's alright haha.

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by Mike Weedmark

I don't know if my input is relevant, but a file I've always considered one of the funnest I've ever played is WAIWAI230. If you can figure out why that files rules my world so hard, you'd probably have a good starting point for rating any file. I think it's obvious it has to start with a song that's a joy to listen to.

if i could figure out why you consider waiwai230 to be one of the funnest files you've ever played it would just be a good starting point for rating any file for YOU not the community as a whole

Originally Posted by iironiic

Well even if they can support their reasoning whether file A is harder than file B, that is at least something that can help us reach that "true difficulty." I'm sure they are really likely to say that and that's alright haha.

the problem with this is that their reasoning for why file A is harder than file B will rely solely on how well they can mash and read the patterns in a file which is entirely dependent on the person. there is no way to assign difficulty to files when there are people involved because no two people are the same

[Coolboyrulez0]

If Halcyon isnt FGO then I ragequit

1617-41-4-2-15 first run lmfao

also, tourney was fun while it lasted...

PS: I disagree with the majority and would say that most, if not all the files where pretty awesome and appropriate for their chosen Divisions.

[00Razor00]

Originally Posted by FFR4EVA_00

d6 people don't give a shit about the ratings of songs that are easy for them

As a D6 player, I concur.

[TheSaxRunner05]

Fun file angel, I'd be much happier though if my comp didn't have a massive lag spike in the last 1% of the song and trigger autofail, ruining my BF =(

[yo man im awesome]

Originally Posted by Who_Cares973

*All of his recent posts*

See this is the part of a civil argument I like, when other people also contribute their opinions, whether it helps me or not.

I see many of your points to be true, but I also find AJ's point valid as well.

As for your statement of if you were to judge a file and 75% wouldn't enter, well, that's why we have multiple judges (and another thing, I think we should have at least one judge from every skill group that's at least minorly trusted, so we see the file from all angles of the community), that way no one person has near complete control over what goes in and what doesn't go into ffr.

[Ryusei_]

As a side note, after playing D4's song again....I've noticed that D4 hasn't gotten a file yet that's terribly difficult....Just files that have one or two stupid parts (that are such a small part compared with the rest of the song) that without them, the files would be 8's

Is this going to be the trend for D4?