Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by Matthew4444

You know, I never really thought about it before: if you use techniques that are slightly more advanced than what your opponent that you may play often (say, a friend), wouldn't you be essentially training them?

Only if they care to learn.

If you're teaching me button combinations in Soul Calibur to make me do certain moves and combos, I'm all ears. If you're teaching me how to repeatedly press seven buttons in order at a specific time in order to move slightly faster, I couldn't care less.

So far, nothing has proven to me that I need to utilize wavedashing to beat another human player at this game.

[macgravel]

Squeek - 5
Random kids on FFR - 0

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Only if they care to learn.

If you're teaching me button combinations in Soul Calibur to make me do certain moves and combos, I'm all ears. If you're teaching me how to repeatedly press seven buttons in order at a specific time in order to move slightly faster, I couldn't care less.

So far, nothing has proven to me that I need to utilize wavedashing to beat another human player at this game.

"So far, nothing has proven to me that I need to utilize wavedashing to beat another human player at this game."

Then it shouldn't matter in a random game. Also if you do not want to get punched in the face don't enter into a fight and if you enter into a fight expect to be punched in the face.

[Squeek]

Once again. Dear god. You completely miss my analogies.

The point is you just walk up to some random person (this is a metaphor for random online matches!) and you punch them in the face (this is a metaphor for utilizing glitches!), then walk away (this is a metaphor for the fact that you will never, EVER see the random person you were playing with!).

Until 2007, I never knew anything about competitive melee. I had no idea there was an item ban, I had no idea people used glitches, etc. Had I never learned, it would've been the same as punching me in the face with it the first time we played.

[Loyal2Death]

Squeek, upon hearing everything you've said, it is almost a shame to me that we somehow couldn't get voice support and play online. That being said, I'm hoping this thread can also become an area to allow everyone to add one another and play online.

I've sat back and read these last few pages to hear some valid points. I get the whole competitive edge idea, but look. I've played a couple really good people, and some of the best I've played in a long time. Whether they use Wave-Dashing or not, it doesn't make a difference-

Why?

Simple, in order for me to effectively beat a player (if I'm playing competitively) it is almost required that I lose sometimes to see effectively what that player is doing. Eventually, after a couple of games I can counter that players play style, and the advantage is for naught.

Here is what wavedashing does: it adds another combination of things I have to account for when battling an opponent, and no matter how much any of you defend it, its an unfair advantage. The argument you will give me back is that "So and so can use wave dash against me as well, its not unfair!" It's plenty unfair. My retort (Normally) to that would be simply that it generates a whole field advantage for someone who can use it effectively. Now hear me out, what I just said proves a your point. It creates that competitive edge, but that competitive edge is just as effective as an "Outsiders" fight. If someone brings a gun to a fist fight, obviously the person with the gun has the same objective as everyone else with fists but the man holding the gun is the one with the advantage. Now... everyone could bring a gun but then its no longer a fist fight, it becomes a "who can use their advantage better than the other" which totally totally ruins the initial premise of the game.

Competitive play is separate from all of the rest of Melee for a number of reasons, but to be good competitively, you must learn to wavedash. Coincidentally, to do that you also must learn a glitch never intended for the game and now Melee is no longer a melee, its a "Who screws up their glitch exploitation first".

Can I wavedash? Yeah. Do I? Occasionally. Do I do it competitively? Only if I have to really, I'd rather not. I personally think I've perfected my type of gameplay for what I do as Marth. On his own Marth is fast enough and just strong enough to suit my minds way of playing the game the way its intended and the only reason I do wave dash is to close the gap of ability between players.

Edit: I'm also known for having a hell of a good time in the strangest of situations. I.E I don't like to play so many "serious games" in a row. Instead I love being Captain Falcon, or Jigglypuff and throw Knees and falcon punches or try to rest every one of my KOs. That adds a fun element to the game, especially wen everyone is high and/or drunk and starts shouting the move out loud to add to the hilarity of a 4 on 4 captain falcon brawl where the rules are "Only knees and falcon punches allowed".

[Gano]

I really like the sites new page layout, and the warning when there are >:O SPOILARS.
ps NEEEEEEESS
I am going to PK Starstorm you all to hell.

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by Loyal2Death

Squeek, upon hearing everything you've said, it is almost a shame to me that we somehow couldn't get voice support and play online. That being said, I'm hoping this thread can also become an area to allow everyone to add one another and play online.

I've sat back and read these last few pages to hear some valid points. I get the whole competitive edge idea, but look. I've played a couple really good people, and some of the best I've played in a long time. Whether they use Wave-Dashing or not, it doesn't make a difference-

Why?

Simple, in order for me to effectively beat a player (if I'm playing competitively) it is almost required that I lose sometimes to see effectively what that player is doing. Eventually, after a couple of games I can counter that players play style, and the advantage is for naught.

Here is what wavedashing does: it adds another combination of things I have to account for when battling an opponent, and no matter how much any of you defend it, its an unfair advantage. The argument you will give me back is that "So and so can use wave dash against me as well, its not unfair!" It's plenty unfair. My retort (Normally) to that would be simply that it generates a whole field advantage for someone who can use it effectively. Now hear me out, what I just said proves a your point. It creates that competitive edge, but that competitive edge is just as effective as an "Outsiders" fight. If someone brings a gun to a fist fight, obviously the person with the gun has the same objective as everyone else with fists but the man holding the gun is the one with the advantage. Now... everyone could bring a gun but then its no longer a fist fight, it becomes a "who can use their advantage better than the other" which totally totally ruins the initial premise of the game.

Competitive play is separate from all of the rest of Melee for a number of reasons, but to be good competitively, you must learn to wavedash. Coincidentally, to do that you also must learn a glitch never intended for the game and now Melee is no longer a melee, its a "Who screws up their glitch exploitation first".

Can I wavedash? Yeah. Do I? Occasionally. Do I do it competitively? Only if I have to really, I'd rather not. I personally think I've perfected my type of gameplay for what I do as Marth. On his own Marth is fast enough and just strong enough to suit my minds way of playing the game the way its intended and the only reason I do wave dash is to close the gap of ability between players.

Edit: I'm also known for having a hell of a good time in the strangest of situations. I.E I don't like to play so many "serious games" in a row. Instead I love being Captain Falcon, or Jigglypuff and throw Knees and falcon punches or try to rest every one of my KOs. That adds a fun element to the game, especially wen everyone is high and/or drunk and starts shouting the move out loud to add to the hilarity of a 4 on 4 captain falcon brawl where the rules are "Only knees and falcon punches allowed".

I agree with you that it does provide you with an advantage over the people who do not do it. I didn't even know about it until I met my friends at school who played competitively. So what did I do? I learned how to do it and I practiced it so that I can use it effectively. I didn't whine about it.

[chemicalrabbit]

Calm down everyone. Most competitive players can pwn noobs without advance techniques anyway.

What the point of sucking on purpose so the noob you're playing can have fun? Well, let me tell you this:

winning is fun


BTW, SQUEEK, JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE CAN WAVEDASH or L-CANCEL DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE GOOD.

Once again. Dear god. You completely miss my analogies.

It's because they suck.

l2awr, going to Pound 3?

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by chemicalrabbit

Calm down. Most competitive players can pwn noobs without advance techniques anyway.

Obviously.

Does anyone else think that Brawl will be an extremely slow pace game? It looks way too floaty to me

[chemicalrabbit]

Originally Posted by l2awr

Obviously.

Does anyone else think that Brawl will be an extremely slow pace game? It looks way too floaty to me

Nah it's not that slow.

Squeek - 5
Random kids on FFR - 0

You obviously didn't read through this thread.

Until 2007, I never knew anything about competitive melee. I had no idea there was an item ban, I had no idea people used glitches, etc. Had I never learned, it would've been the same as punching me in the face with it the first time we played.

Work on your analogies. >_>

[macgravel]

Seems to me like the pace will be the same as SSBM.

[sjoecool1991]

Originally Posted by chemicalrabbit

BTW, SQUEEK, JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE CAN WAVEDASH or L-CANCEL DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE GOOD.

Did he ever say that?
No, he didn't.
He just said it was extremely annoying to play with someone who wavedashes because they think they are better than everyone else.


Also, competitive gamers always automatically think they are god at the games they play. And they always complain when they lose which can be EXTREMELY annoying.

There is one guy i know that is too competitive, and he annoys the **** out of me because he blames losing on everything but himself.
My older and younger brother and my sister are all fairly good at smash brothers, and they are casual gamers, and they NEVER complain when they lose.

[Shamo0]

If they win, I'd say they are better.

[chemicalrabbit]

Originally Posted by sjoecool1991

Did he ever say that?
No, he didn't.
He just said it was extremely annoying to play with someone who wavedashes because they think they are better than everyone else.

I never said he did... I just posted a fact that counters his arguement. None of what you posted were facts. They were just stupid opinions.

[sjoecool1991]

Originally Posted by chemicalrabbit

I never said he did... I just posted a fact that counters his arguement. None of what you posted were facts. They were just stupid opinions.

They may be opinions, but your entire argument is based on your opinions, Squeek is gathering facts to back up his arguments, you are not.

[l2awr]

If you read what Squeek said its that he thinks it is unfair to use them against people who do not know about them or know how to do them lol...he never said that other stuff. I don't know how you came up with it.

[sjoecool1991]

Originally Posted by l2awr

If you read what Squeek said its that he thinks it is unfair to use them against people who do not know about them or know how to do them lol...he never said that other stuff. I don't know how you came up with it.

Oh, haha, I remember you, your the idiot guy in the Xbox 360 thread that also argued with Squeek.
I guess you really do hate him.
Also, I did read everything he said.
He made sense, you didn't.

[chemicalrabbit]

Originally Posted by sjoecool1991

They may be opinions, but your entire argument is based on your opinions, Squeek is gathering facts to back up his arguments, you are not.

Our facts:

Wavedashing is not considered a glitch, but an exploit. Wavedashing is short-hopping and then airdodging toward the ground horizontally.

Advanced techniques are used by noobs also

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE CAN WAVEDASH or L-CANCEL DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE GOOD.

"A competitive player strives to get better using any methods deemed legal, to win. Because that's what's fun for them. They love competition. A casual player is someone to whom playing itself is fun, and places winning and self-improvement at a much lower level"

"Here is what wavedashing does: it adds another combination of things I have to account for when battling an opponent, and no matter how much any of you defend it, its an unfair advantage. The argument you will give me back is that "So and so can use wave dash against me as well, its not unfair!" It's plenty unfair. My retort (Normally) to that would be simply that it generates a whole field advantage for someone who can use it effectively. Now hear me out, what I just said proves a your point. It creates that competitive edge, but that competitive edge is just as effective as an "Outsiders" fight. If someone brings a gun to a fist fight, obviously the person with the gun has the same objective as everyone else with fists but the man holding the gun is the one with the advantage. Now... everyone could bring a gun but then its no longer a fist fight, it becomes a "who can use their advantage better than the other" which totally totally ruins the initial premise of the game.

Competitive play is separate from all of the rest of Melee for a number of reasons, but to be good competitively, you must learn to wavedash. Coincidentally, to do that you also must learn a glitch never intended for the game and now Melee is no longer a melee, its a "Who screws up their glitch exploitation first".
"

"So far, nothing has proven to me that I need to utilize wavedashing to beat another human player at this game." - SQUEEK

"Then it shouldn't matter in a random game. Also if you do not want to get punched in the face don't enter into a fight and if you enter into a fight expect to be punched in the face." - l2awr

"If you "suck", why not get better?"

"When wavedashing was introdcued to Melee, people noticed it. They checked if it was against the rules, and the rule-checkers said it was OK.
"

"You people who condemn so-called "advanced techniques" because they are glitches are so closed-minded about what a glitch is. You automatically think it's something bad, horrible, and illegal. Well guess what? It isn't. A glitch is merely an unintended result of game code. In the case of advanced techniques, it's a fortuitous mistake. The introduction of advanced techniques increased the depth and competitive value of Melee far beyond what it could've been otherwise, with absolutely NO game-breaking effects. There was no "Instawin" button. People had to learn advanced techniques and apply them properly to win, and the variety that exists within advanced techniques helped the game so much that it's mind-boggling. Why can't you see that? Why can't you see that glitches can be beneficial, and thus shouldn't be discarded simply because they're glitches?

You don't seem to realize that how the developers made the game isn't necessarily the best way to play. See: Half-Life 2 and Garry's Mod. And also, here's a quote from Masahiro Sakurai, head developer of SSBB:
"

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by sjoecool1991

Oh, haha, I remember you, your the idiot guy in the Xbox 360 thread that also argued with Squeek.
I guess you really do hate him.
Also, I did read everything he said.
He made sense, you didn't.

Ya I did argue with him and guess what? He admitted that he misunderstood me. AKA I was right. Your a groupie. Shouldn't you be in his fan page asking for autographs?

Also what do you mean I didn't make sense? Back that up. You sound like a little kid.

[sjoecool1991]

You completely misunderstood was Squeek said.
Everyone did.


Everyone here is saying that Squeek is stupid because he doesn't like wavedashing.
Everyone here is also saying Squeek is stupid because he doe not like tournament rules.

He is trying to say he is a casual gamer, and you all are saying that you can't have fun unless you wave dash/win every game.


How am I a groupie?
All I said is that I completely agree with squeek?
Everyone here just hates him for his opinions.