Gay Marriage Unconstitutional?

[FoJaR]

grandia: how does me pissing on a Koran directly affect a muslim person on the other side of the world? or even down the street?

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

grandia: how does me pissing on a Koran directly affect a muslim person on the other side of the world? or even down the street?

It doesn't directly affect anyone but the person you are doing it to.

[FoJaR]

what person?

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

what person?

I misread, I thought you said "Kurd" like the arabic ethnic group.

It doesn't directly affect any muslims, it might make some angry. However, if you are saying that gays getting married degrades marriage, that is your viewpoint, not everyones, therefore, your personal feelings don't count in legal arguments.

Or even this "definition" of marriage that you keep referring to but can't produce any evidence of.

[Kilgamayan]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

it' changes the definition of marriage and that affects me personally.

It's not changing the definition of "marriage" because it's exclusively referred to as "gay marriage" instead of just "marriage". The "gay" modifier is never removed (at least not as far as I'm aware).

As for your oxymoron argument, "business casual" is a kind of formal dress, and "jumbo shrimp" are a kind of shrimp. They both just happen to be a certain subgroup of the main group that share a common deviation from the norm (casuality and large size, respectively).

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by Grandiagod

I misread, I thought you said "Kurd" like the arabic ethnic group.

It doesn't directly affect any muslims, it might make some angry. However, if you are saying that gays getting married degrades marriage, that is your viewpoint, not everyones, therefore, your personal feelings don't count in legal arguments.

so some people dont give a rat's ass about islam, they piss on korans, it's not their viewpoint so it makes it okay?

Or even this "definition" of marriage that you keep referring to but can't produce any evidence of.

Oxford dictionary: marriage

• noun the formal union of a man and a woman, by which they become husband and wife.

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by Kilgamayan

It's not changing the definition of "marriage" because it's exclusively referred to as "gay marriage" instead of just "marriage". The "gay" modifier is never removed (at least not as far as I'm aware).

As for your oxymoron argument, "business casual" is a kind of formal dress, and "jumbo shrimp" are a kind of shrimp. They both just happen to be a certain subgroup of the main group that share a common deviation from the norm (casuality and large size, respectively).

business casual isnt much of an oxymoron, and jumboshrimp is not quite an oxymoron because of the double meaning of shrimp.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

Oxford dictionary: marriage

• noun the formal union of a man and a woman, by which they become husband and wife.

marriage

• noun 1 the formal union of a man and a woman, by which they become husband and wife. 2 a combination of two or more elements.

Bet you thought you could get that by, eh? A marriage can be between ANY TWO THINGS. The only marriage that is specifically between a man and a woman is the religious kind.

Oh and by the way:

Originally Posted by FoJaR

business casual isnt much of an oxymoron

It is much more of an oxymoron than "gay marriage".

[FoJaR]

but that's not pertinent. that sense is more metaphorical:

"quite clear that the marriage of inorganic and analytical."

"A Marriage of Art and Science"

which is a reference to real marriage. it's a metaphor.

[Afrobean]

Even so, according to you, those abstract marriages degrade the value of a real marriage between a man and a woman, because only a marriage between a man and a woman has legitimate value.

[FoJaR]

no, they dont, because they are metaphorical marriages.

homosexuals are not asking for metaphorical marriages... hell, a kiss can be a "metaphorical marriage"; "the marriage of their lips"...

it's not something that's concrete, like real marriage.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

it's not something that is concrete, like real marriage.

Two people being married is concrete?

When did this happen?

[FoJaR]

unfortunately not always permanent, but concrete none the less.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

unfortunately not always permanent, but concrete none the less.

Sorry, I was under the impression that concrete meant that the thing in question was physically tangible and furthermore literally means

existing in a material or physical form; not abstract.

Yeah, you're definitely right here. The concept of marriage definitely exists in a material or physical form.

[FoJaR]

just like the concept of being someone's child exists in a material or physical form.

[FaughtNWon]

I think afro won.

[Chrissi]

Of course afro won. It's impossible to argue that gay marriage is unconstitutional without adding religion. It just plain doesn't harm anybody. Why do you care who I want to marry? Why do you care if it's called a civil union or a marriage? If I am to have equal status in society, I must be able to become legally married.

There isn't an argument here. I can't possibly see any logical reason someone could think of that should actually deny gays marriage.

[FoJaR]

it might help if you listened to me.... just because you dont agree with me is no reason to IGNORE WHAT I SAY... in fact you'd probably do better to READ IT.

i have never argued the unconstitutionality of gay marriage. never.

[Kilgamayan]

Yeah, I picked up on what was going on after thinking over my last post while watching Florida beat Arkansas.

FoJaR's not arguing against the idea, he's arguing the use of the word "marriage" in the name. Given what has been posted in this thread I would guess that he would not specifically object if the idea of "civil union" was taken to a legal level equal to that of "marriage" in the eyes of the country, as long as there was no actual official use of the word "marriage" and the ceremony was not a religious one (and not even held in a religious building).

[FoJaR]

hey kilga thanks for reading my posts before responding.