TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

[devonin]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

With all the WIFOM I saw people do about Xiz's likelihood of actions/talk of X I Z M E C H A N I C S half this game better pray that angleshooting isn't a sitewode ban

I don't think anybody was angleshooting with that. It was a memey way to not have to add "Unless some mystery mechanic interfered" on to the end of literally everything we tried to theorize about.

Like when Svaz sent the Role PM to Roundbox who redirected to Soundwave, but neither Roundbox nor Soundwave got the PM. It was "Somebody is lying OR there's some mystery thing we don't understand that was also involved"

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

I don't think anybody was angleshooting with that. It was a memey way to not have to add "Unless some mystery mechanic interfered" on to the end of literally everything we tried to theorize about.

Like when Svaz sent the Role PM to Roundbox who redirected to Soundwave, but neither Roundbox nor Soundwave got the PM. It was "Somebody is lying OR there's some mystery thing we don't understand that was also involved"

The joke is that's closer to angleshooting then accounting for info the host actually corrects in thread.

And while acknowledging that I 100% believe the statement I just made, i of course am not supporting the banning of people who tried to figure out what could and could not be in the game based on past Xiz games because that'll be silly

[Funnygurl555]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

OH FUCK I FORGOT
I CAN CHANGE MY AVATAR

is this one any better

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

both sides are right here tbh

its not angleshooting when the host specifically states the info, but I can't really fault roundbox for not wanting to read into that

is this for realsies? I think this should be stated unambiguously as some kinda rule

because in my mind I thought the opposite --- not that this really comes up that much but still

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

is this for realsies? I think this should be stated unambiguously as some kinda rule

how would you word that rule?
angleshooting is very, very difficult to define with a blanket statement

[Charu]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

The way I saw it. Information by the host is just as important to read like anything else. Which is why when Xiz mentioned Gradiant got the wrong info, it should be fair game to use this error as a means to read into what exactly was the error and discuss it in thread. That includes reading Gradiants posts when he thought nothing was wrong.

It's lame, yeah, but I think purposely disregarding an error and trying to solve the game ignoring the error really does a disservice for town players. No matter how "angleshoot-y" it is.

[roundbox]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

I do not disagree that some things are impossible to unread and unthink
This particular situation falls in an area of ambiguity. There are other situations which are less ambiguous as to where the responsibility lies. For example, think of when Charu used that one vulnerability on profiles which used to show which thread or even specific post people were viewing. He was able to catch sunfan/litodude/I forget the third by seeing that they were all viewing the same thread. Charu stumbled across this fact accidentally (he saw the first player viewing the post and had the natural curiosity to check if the others were doing the same; when there was a match, his brain could only think one thing). If this wasn't just a "Wait, did that just work?" scenario and Charu was actually hiding this secret strategy, THEN that would definitely be cheating. No, this isn't really using host wording to angleshoot, but it's a similar situation. If it's obvious a player is attempting to overread and interpret something from the host's posts to try and confirm game information (not organically like that Charu situation), then we might have to lean on the side of this rule being broken.

[Charu]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

It's funny that you mention that scenario, because when it happened and I figured out that I just caught the three wolves by looking at what post they were looking at, I immediately went to Ethan (AA) about this revelation and I was considering trying to find an actual in game reason to nail the final wolves instead of resorting to what I was exposed to.

Ethan decided to allow me to use this, so I took that as a greenlight to make a giant post regarding my findings. I wasn't very subtle about it either if I recall because I was excited to turn the game around since us townies were in a very rough patch and in LyLo.

Then well... got instantly backlashed and a bit ridiculed for doing something so slimy (when in all honesty I thought was pretty cool). Looking back on it, I can't believe I did what I did. I should've just tried to nail the wolves through logical means instead of using OoT information to present my case. Then let the thread know at postgame the discovery I made.

Not too proud of it.

[Charu]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

HOWEVER

In this game's case. The information was, in fact, in thread. So I think making that comparison is a bit of a stretch.

I, and only myself, had information I should not have.

This game however. Everyone had information they should not have. Which is why I saw it as fair game in my previous post, heh.

Though, honestly, at that point, it's either town wins by lame means, or Devonin confusing town players with incorrect information due to the error. I think that's the route Devonin took to dismiss the error anyways, lol.

Also also, I think Xiz should've also specified that Soundwave should not have been killed and thus no KILLING action was done against them. That's just me though, because otherwise town would have incorrect information regarding kill power which would muddy up reads significantly (which I'm sure did a little bit).

Either that or just end the game in a draw or something officially with an unnofficial wolf win (because no one was going to catch Devonin probably if Soundwave didn't die and Gradiant didn't post.)

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

still dunno about soundwave dying there
he probably just didn't have a working vest

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

I don't think Xiz made an error there?
Doesn't seem like it anyways

[Charu]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

The error in question was that Soundwave was not suppose to die.

Actually, he wasn't suppose to die in 2 different ways according to the night actions. One for getting an item that apparent gave him a vest for that specific night, and one for Gradiant redirecting (forcing aggro) on Devonin.

[Charu]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

The interpretation of the role being seen as both die is super misleading because, just going by THE ROLE PM it specifically states you force aggro. It does not say you and player x's target get the same action.

That is not what "force aggro" means.

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

I don't disagree that this is my interpretation
its probably just v poorly worded but when I was talking to Xiz, he said that it resolved how he intended it to

[Charu]

Re: TWG 187 Senpai [Post Game]

If that is actually how it was mechanically intended, then Gradiant's role from the very start of the game was just incorrect mechanical info, lmao.