DP/RATO move to tokens?

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

(RATO) Move that sucker over because it's just going to be a perpetual outlier fucking up everyone's levelranks, which makes the data less meaningful.

I don't understand why some people think that. Whatever the fuck a chart may be, the best players will get the best scores. Why would the difficulty of any chart make the data less "meaningful" ? Of course the file is not stepped the right way, but hey, make a legit 400 bpm js file with bursts (exageration intended), the rankings should Still be correct.

[Guest15937]

The difference between DP/RATO and every other file is like the difference between vROFL and DP/RATO. vROFL is a token, DP/RATO should be tokens also.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by Guest15937

The difference between DP/RATO and every other file is like the difference between vROFL and DP/RATO. vROFL is a token, DP/RATO should be tokens also.

And what if there were files between DP's difficulty and the other highest files ? That argument isnt really valid imo. And tbh I would love to see that happen.

EDIT: Making new thread for my point

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Oh just to put this to rest, FFR's RATO chart is NOT accurately stepped. Nowhere close.
Fucking ghost notes everywhere, apparently a faint "whooshing" sound calls for 48th walls.
And some of the 48th walls that aren't totally BS are still BS because they should only be 32nds.

It's not a whooshing sound. I just looked at the file slowed down for like the fifth time, and everything is correct. Some sounds being stepped aren't very audible but there are no ghost notes. All of the 48th rolls go to 48th notes or faster.

Originally Posted by Guest15937

The difference between DP/RATO and every other file is like the difference between vROFL and DP/RATO. vROFL is a token, DP/RATO should be tokens also.

This doesn't make sense. Yes, vROFL is much harder than DP & RATO, and DP & RATO are much harder than all of the other files, but how is that reasoning for making DP & RATO tokens? FYI the reason (I suspect) vROFL is a token is because the notes go to absolutely nothing for most of the file and it's entirely a joke.

[mi40]

when ur mashing 30 notes per second u cant hear sounds from 0.5 rate sorry dude

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by EzExZeRo7497

extremely long easy songs to begin with, just offsync.

The above part is an explanation. People would get rid of widget files such as Snake Devil if they could.

And along the lines of Molto, you do realize the entire difficulty of that chart stems from it being offsync and overwhelmingly ridiculous nature?

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by mi40

when ur mashing 30 notes per second u cant hear sounds from 0.5 rate sorry dude

Yea that's true. But it's not fair to call the song incorrectly stepped.

[arcnmx]

Agreed, because of this:

Originally Posted by Xx{Fallen}xX

I just hope that when i play some of the less experienced players in mp, they will stop picking these songs so often.

[RagedBerserker]

Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx

I don't understand why some people think that. Whatever the fuck a chart may be, the best players will get the best scores. Why would the difficulty of any chart make the data less "meaningful" ? Of course the file is not stepped the right way, but hey, make a legit 400 bpm js file with bursts (exageration intended), the rankings should Still be correct.

Yes but OP, I am not mashing through these songs for a good rank. I have rank 200+ on RATO and DP because I honestly try to play the songs without mashing, but about 90% of the 200+ in front of me just mashed away mindlessly for combo. I honestly should have worse ranks on those songs but I mashed them both like two or three years ago.

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx

Why would the difficulty of any chart make the data less "meaningful" ?

Because of combo scoring. Pretty much every score on DP/RATO that has a decent rank is mashed to no tomorrow. The files are extremely difficult, to the point where the majority of D7 can't even decently PA with a full combo.

The leader-boards (even around the top 10) for both songs is pretty hilarious due to excessive mashing, and it's not going to get much better any time soon. At least as a token, DP/RATO can be taken considerably less seriously for rank improvements, and actual PA runs could be the norm because of this. As it stands now, it's like: Mash Mash Revolution until FC, get rank <40, done.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx

I don't understand why some people think that. Whatever the fuck a chart may be, the best players will get the best scores. Why would the difficulty of any chart make the data less "meaningful" ? Of course the file is not stepped the right way, but hey, make a legit 400 bpm js file with bursts (exageration intended), the rankings should Still be correct.

Because of the PA distributions.

1. The best players will always be able to apply their skills to the distribution, but there aren't many such players relative to the userbase.

2. Everyone else who ISN'T able to is just going to mashmashmashmash away.

3. Such files won't get played as often for scoring purposes because, well, if all you can do is mash a shitty score, there's no real reason to play the file 100 times if your goal is to mash a slightly less shitty score.

And so what ends up happening? You get a few people with high rank because they legitimately did well, and then a bunch of people along a plateau who mashed a FC.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=1214
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/....php?level=959

Look at the score spreads -- they're disgusting.

The data becomes less meaningful because unlike most of the other stepcharts on FFR, the RATO/DP distributions aren't measuring a whole lot of skill simply because the skill requirements are too high. It becomes a measure of how lucky you get by mashing the hard stuff and hoping you get decent PA out of it.

IMO if most users (even relatively skilled ones) *have to* mash an entire effing file just to FC it so it won't poop on their levelranks, then that file doesn't make much sense (mathematically speaking) to lump it in alongside all the other files that actually measure something with predictive value.

[0]

get rid of all the fgos because i'm bad at them

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=1214
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/....php?level=959

Look at the score spreads -- they're disgusting.

The data becomes less meaningful because unlike most of the other stepcharts on FFR, the RATO/DP distributions aren't measuring a whole lot of skill simply because the skill requirements are too high. It becomes a measure of how lucky you get by mashing the hard stuff and hoping you get decent PA out of it.

IMO if most users (even relatively skilled ones) *have to* mash an entire effing file just to FC it so it won't poop on their levelranks, then that file doesn't make much sense (mathematically speaking) to lump it in alongside all the other files that actually measure something with predictive value.

But then Dossar has 20's goods, and the best players still have the best scores on both files. I would like to have more files on which I could only get like 50 goods FCs so I could try to improve and lower that to 30 then 20 etc. Maybe I'm being silly because Yes there aren't many players with this problem but I think my point still holds.

[One Winged Angel]

Sidenote after looking at DP scoreboard, can someone quickly explain how Eze's 2414c score with better PA and having all notes played through is worse in rank than Zyphoror's score with the same combo and worse PA, or Opkiller's score? I'm confused right now.

[SK8R43]

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

Sidenote after looking at DP scoreboard, can someone quickly explain how Eze's 2414c score with better PA and having all notes played through is worse in rank than Zyphoror's score with the same combo and worse PA, or Opkiller's score? I'm confused right now.

lol that's messed up O.o

[mi40]

cue x-files theme

[EzExZeRo7497]

@Rob: bmah overwrriten the score for me, I missed at 2414c with horrid PA/mashing back then, that score actually had 2200-2300c but bmah forgot to change that. I 'll upload the pic later if you need proof.

EDIT: My bad, 2366c

[Doug31]

I don't see what's wrong with having a mash a file. Mashing is arguably more fun than playing the game normally. I also like to play songs that are too fast for me and attempt to do them anyway. Yeah, I miss a lot, but then I feel like I do better when I go back to some other song that was just slightly too hard for me. I think the hard songs have really helped me out in this game. I really hope at least some really hard songs are public.

And for multiplayer, I think it's nice to be able to see how good your opponent can do on a hard song. I wouldn't want to play someone that could AAA every song I had.

[One Winged Angel]

oh kk that makes sense...and you don't need proof lol I was just like uhhhh for a sec

ok nvm back on topic~

[mi40]

Originally Posted by Doug31

Mashing is arguably more fun than playing the game normally.

you're the 1%