TWG CLIX: Form your special exclusive groups now! - Game Thread

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Zenith what's the third "wrongish" in my first reads list? Know something I don't? As far as I can see, the flips we've got so far would prove two wrong. This looks like a slip, but you have so much other goodness going for you. Care to explain where the third one came from? Because I could certainly see you getting carried away with making a point of the wrongness of my reads and slipping an additional "wrong" in there based on knowledge that you have, but that the rest of us certainly don't...

Ah, I see the error of my ways. I jumped the gun on the gradiant? read I believe.

[danceflashrevo]

Originally Posted by roundbox

Even without evidence I think DaBackpack and raeko need to step up or get noosed

seconded, also botchi needs to say at least a word

[XelNya]

Note: I wrote this last night using my phone to read. The numbers are the post I am responding to / discussing / idea shooting on.

I will not add links in before posting this. This will be a literal copy paste.

1153:

RB I don't think shooting you has any value both mechanically nor overall. You haven't done anything scummy imho. You're not like HOLY FUCK TOWNIEST OF TOWNS but certainly every person on that list (except maybe mellon) gives us more information to work with than you. Short hand is shooting you is not in best interest of town.

1154:

I really don't think me being in that list is nearly as important as your post in specific makes it sound. I earnestly have to think that maybe you're borrowing something out of Haku's entrance to the game though if you're still actually thinking Charu is a good shot. I am not a mechanics oriented player by any stretch (in fact I think this is a rare post where I feel comfortable even touching on them slightly) but there's only one fucking time I think shooting Charu is acceptable, and that is an absolute train wreck of a counter claim that makes him look like text book shit. You can call this sucking up to the bird if you'd like but no really, if I were the vigi I'd heavily consider shooting YOU for suggesting this.

That said if SK kills him in the night (LOL) feel free to without question use that shot on me. I deserve it at that point.

1156:

The issue is that more players are feeling you're town than the ones who see you as scummy or null. Shooting you would benefit maybe me and another player. I again don't object to shooting you, but in terms of what gives us the most to use, the only person on that list worth shooting maybe a little less is mellon.

Short hand is I still am watching you, but everyone else seems to think you're fine. We'll roll with that unless some others drift or I can make a better case about it. Which actually I can't because even I have to admit I think you're doing a lot better.

1165:

Actually this post is part of the reasoning I'm more comfortable not putting you into that list dude.

1157 / 1162:

LOL CHARU CALM DOWN.

on DFR voting Mellon /post 1177 makes me bring this up:

I feel the pressure on mellon is a tad less genuine. Is that just me? Like it's not quite "bad" pressure, but it does feel really forced to meet the requirements of pleasing our feathery friend.

1180:

I also agree that lynching shado here is bad. Best thing we can do is discuss and take advantage of his shot as best we can. I'm actually curious since you're a really mechanic focused player, who would you shoot right now? Your opinion is probably a different than mine.

I wanna touch on this post again later, most likely. Naggeth remind me maybe if you feel obligated. <3

1184:

Read list go over party time extravaganza xel get on with it and stop typing things I feel I have to read because they might be important oh god no why is this joke in here come on xel yer supposed to be serious now wtf mate you bastard is there a typo in here I imagine there is other than a lack of any deviation of punctuation what so ever:

Haku: I agree with your statement about early game but not quiteeeeee for the same reasoning. I don't think the interactions with me are QUITE one sided as earlier they were more both, but him riding me is fine I think. His posting has GREATLY improved lately so even I'm beginning to see it as he just sucks more dick than a penny whore at entering a game.

Zenith: ... We have seen a deal of reads and discussion from him. People just kinda aren't interacting with him the best? HEY ZENITH ANSWER THE QUESTION I ASKED @1180?

DFR: I actually am not too sure I agree with leaning him town instead of null, for reasoning I said earlier about the mellon push. (Which btw I didn't mention, was a somewhat MEH push.)

Charu is a snivey. Not a useless fucking charizard.

Precarious: I kinda am not fond of the mechanics focus, but to that end it is a very different POV than say me, who uses their gut more than any issues with mechanics.

Bitchy: I need to see a d1 post before I'll throw him out of the null pile.

Me: You have to tread through shit sometimes. TOUGH. SHIT. FREN.

Mellon: agree her response to dfr is ok

Oh, and I'm not forgetting anyone. I left one out and roundbox is either absent or I'm actually wrong, and did forget someone.

1188:

Man as far as aggression goes, I haven't gone that direction in a while. My issue lately with that is that it turns into just me trolling them and people brushing it off (as they should maybe, I dunno.) So I'm playing this super middle ground place where my trolly stuff is in the jokes. Except when telling wolfe how to play his role. (HAH.)

1193:

Read list go over party time extravaganza xel get on with it and stop typing things I feel I have to read because they might be important oh god no why is this joke in here come on xel yer supposed to be serious now wtf mate you bastard is there a typo in here I imagine there is other than a lack of any deviation of punctuation what so ever: V2

Haku: I think the best way for you to solidify a read on Haku is to ignore any notions of post counts meaning anything and just dig through pure content and ignore the question of Mechanics. Haku's been gone from TWG outside the turbo for a while (I THINK?!) So I'm not sure apply mechanical analysis of what he'd play like is quite the best idea? I dunno if that makes any sense but that's kinda why I'm in the state on him I'm in.

Zenith: I can see this for what I stated in the last one.

Wolfe: Not rly worth doing this one a second time.

DFR: I feel it's more of a loss of momentum? I'd love to see him just SPAM thoughts on the whole game in one great wall of post.

Charu is a snivey. Not a useless FUCKING. CHARIZARD.

RB: Just noticed I think juckster missed him actually. I forget he's here WHICH IS DUMB BECAUSE I KNOW HE MADE GOOD D0 POSTS AHHHHHHHHHH. I'll prob spend the night reading them or doing this at work on lunch.

Botchi: see above

Juck: Fair POV, but do you think with more activity he'd be a stronger town or do you think maybe he's feigning?

Mellon: I think Mellon tends to be one of the more quiet players (especially compared to say funnygurl?) Not sure if that's true 100% or if that helps.

Me: o.o

1199:

OH SHIT WOLFE WITH THE FIRE. Would love to see a good response to this tbh. Hopefully here when I got to post this.

Guess I'll drop a list (Least lynch-able -> I'd lynch / shoot)

Charu
Wolfe
Precar
round

haku
juck
dfr / mellon

botchi
dbp

I'd probably lynch from the bottom, and shoot from the middle here. Reasoning is I cannot stress that I accept I am probably wrong here somewhere. I think shooting from the null pile then lynching a player is the most optimal because we can adjust better. (Assuming we plan on using this shot today.)

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by roundbox

You all better prepare yourselves for the most exciting follow the vote later

I can hardly wait.

[Precarious]

I'll still be away for a couple more hours, but should be back around 4:30 easternish and present until the end of the day.

Browsing through recent posts quickly, I see Zenith has been very active recently and is sharing his thoughts on what's happened so far. Since I hadn't seen enough from him previously to really get a sense of how he plays, I'm looking forward to reading this more closely.

[danceflashrevo]

Originally Posted by xel

I feel the pressure on mellon is a tad less genuine. Is that just me? Like it's not quite "bad" pressure, but it does feel really forced to meet the requirements of pleasing our feathery friend.

tbf there's not much to go on and she hasn't really said anything

[Charu]

So my reads haven't really changed.

Backpack is nowhere to be seen again.

...

I think lynching backpack is actually a good choice. He had plenty of time to give me detective vibes.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

tbf there's not much to go on and she hasn't really said anything

I didn't say I disagreed with the push. In fact I even said it's not "bad" pressure. The short hand of where I was going is that I doubt that would have happened if Charu wasn't on you.

[Charu]

He has yet to do that.

And I think shadowolfe is gross, but since no one CC'd and... well... something else isn't drilling him or even lightly drilling him, I unfortunately have to take his claim as 100% true.

Much to my own displeasure of doing so.

[Charu]

Botchi I have literally no idea. I recall he was browsing the thread this phase too, but didn't say anything.

[Charu]

I hate using "viewer list" to read people too, but dems the break.

Now that I think about it, backpack was also on there last night

[Charu]

So, I think wolves are being super quiet, as per fucking usual in FFR TWG.

You wanna know why people call these games cancer? It's because of you boring fucks not making the game interesting.

I hope you all get modkilled if that's the wolves plan of action.

[danceflashrevo]

Originally Posted by XelNya

I didn't say I disagreed with the push. In fact I even said it's not "bad" pressure. The short hand of where I was going is that I doubt that would have happened if Charu wasn't on you.

I doubt the way I did it would've happened. I'm pretty sure that my vote would've landed on her eventually this phase, hence why she was the one that I voted. But the push came from charu encouraging me to actually do something with it or make some sort of case, which I feel is encouraging to my play in general as it's something that I don't really do.

[danceflashrevo]

tfw botchi only has two more posts than AA

[Charu]

Now if everyone that is active at the moment is a wolf though, then I applaud you. But I'm preeeetty certain that's not the case.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by XelNya

One more before I go to shower:

Huh, did you come to the conclusion I came to but haven't said yet? (I think someone else is there too, I'll have to recheck though.)

He's simply the most logical vote at this very moment due to his EoD double vote change, his AFKness, his detective mode being turned off and because nothing special came out of him vs Precarious.

I'm not seeing a regular DBP here.
His only read is like "I think Haku is Town".

I'm cool with being town-read, but not like that. It's like he wanted to avoid interaction with me.

[AragakiAyase]

Votes from post 960 to post 1236
Night in 8:05:43
---

• Votes -- Lynch -- Voters
• 1 -- DaBackpack -- Hakulyte (48)
• 1 -- unvote -- Charu (90)
• 7 -- not voting -- DaBackpack (4), juckter1 (7), mellonxcollie (2), Precarious (12), roundbox (23), ShadoWolfe (24), XelNya (13)

[Hakulyte]

@ Zenith quoting my early game

Well, I guess if you take the entirety of everything I say out of context like that, I can guarantee that it will make me look bad. You can come up to a similar conclusion for all my games because I don't tend to play properly and still leave a lot of these type of posts.

As for ShadoWolfe, you're targeting him for the exact same reason that I've kept mislynching him. We don't all play the same way and if you don't realize that, well fml. Also, afaik, no one counterclaimed him yet and the only person who didn't read his claim is botchi. (well, unless other players don't fully read the thread)

I believe wolf ShadoWolfe would be even more greedy than this current one. I know he has quite the attitude, but I don't think he broke his town quota yet.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Was it you who said I had cookie-cutter reads? If so, literally fuck you, read your own reads.

At this point I actually refuse to isolate Haku any longer.

Did you notice how I typed "Null town-lean", "Null wolf-lean" and even added a "?" after some of them? It's subtle, but it's a lot better than Null, Null, Null etc.
Most of my early reads at this game are tone/interactions and I wanted to keep this as a point of reference for the future.

I also developed on my reads as the game progressed and it has served its own purpose if you kept reading.

FreezinIce being one of them, but also a big fml due his lack of interaction with players that aren't Gradiant.
My Precarious wolf-lean forced me to interact with him as well. I got pissed, but I eventually figured that's just how his meta works.

Also, there's a few of these that I just had no idea at all what they were doing due the sheer amount of activity.

[ShadoWolfe]

Here's where I'm at rn:

I quoted three posts by Botchi earlier. I will be addressing them as "first", "second", and "third" in this post, so you may refer to my post here.

The first one, his "reads list", I had issues with because he said that I would yield juicy morsels to dissect upon my flip. I consider it a slight scumtell to suggest a lynch based on "all the info we'd get", if you don't mention exactly what kind of info you'd get off a town flip. I'm not alone in this, and a lot of "theorists" on mafiascum share the same view (from what I've read in wiki and forum). This is especially true in my mind if you're acting like a mislynch will yield a ton of juicy information on Day 0!

In the same post, he also wrote his "read" of Precarious, which read more like an aside for Precarious to read: "this dude can really write some long posts (/wrists), why are you voting for me? From your analysis of me, I don't really see your pov. You don't know me, so I appreciate the raw read, but everything I have said has been for town's greater good. This vote is weak with weak sauce to back it up". That may be the weakest defense I've ever read, basically saying "you don't know me, so don't lynch me" LOL. I also reeally didn't like the part where he says, "everything I have said has been for town's greater good", mainly because being that certain of "town's greater good" in D0 is shady af, to say the least. I also have to note that that quote made me laugh because of "everything I have said" amounting to roughly as many posts as the moderator.

Last point about Botchi's read list: He puts juckter in his "lynch pile", and freezin in his "do not lynch" pile. While the FreezinIce placement is WIFOM and he may have just had a good read on him, his placement of juckter is confusing and weird and maybe even bad. He cites inactivity, then notes that he's doing the same thing (hypocrisy), then says "still, his lack of work sucks". With that weirdness in his one-lined read of juckter, let's move on to his next post.

Oh, interesting. He's rethought his placement of juckter and doesn't think he should be lynched D0, unless town wants to lynch him, in which case, Botchi would like to reassure us that he will also vote him. This is a textbook case of bussing, and was one of the bases I used for saying there are likely "multiple wolves in Botchi, Juckter, DBP, and roundbox".

Alright. Cool.. Let's move on to the third post I quoted.

Here, he's responding to Precarious. Two parts struck me as weird. First, in defending his inactivity this game, he didn't say "oh, shit was going on, blah blah", or even, "I was really busy and couldn't keep up", or even "I'm just not feeling TWG right now". Instead, he said specifically "flying UTR is kinda my pattern and it's not alignment indicative". Almost as if he had planned on sticking to his pattern. This wouldn't be a lot on its own, but it did stick out as hyperconsciousness of his own meta, that I don't normally see in town.

I'm not even going to talk about that final response being long, and yet being posted exactly at 8pm, or the fact that he used "park this here for now" about a literal last-minute vote, but all of the above is why I have Botchi as my strongest scum.