Queue/Batch Discussion Thread v2

[i love you]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Sick job on that Finders Keepers file, excited to try that one -- it looks very neat structurally.

<3

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

I'm actually chuckling a little bit right now (you guys don't know what it's about though)

Originally Posted by Ziergdsx18

Nice experiment Frankenstein 8)

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

The judging process isn't as abysmal as people are making it out to be. Files that have wild ranges can be attributed to pushing extreme concepts (look at Metro and BCND). This concept in itself is subjective, but at least it's logical.

I do think that subjectivity plays a bigger role in the judging process than just the fun factor. If a file is technically correct with halfway decent PR there is no way in hell it should get a difference between the highest and lowest grades, greater than 2. I can see someone getting 5/x/3/x, but 5/x/2/x?? Come on, something isn't right here. 5/5/1/5 is out of the question, One judge shouldn't have the power to TRUMP reject all the other judges in the team, that's just insane.

When I see these score breakdowns, it sometimes leads me to believe that either some of the judges are unqualified to judge, or unable to judge with objectivity. Sure different judges have different opinions on the 'no-no' level of some sections of files, but I sometimes think that giving a rating of 2 solely because of a slight sync problem is a tad overboard. You've trump rejected a file because someone didn't hit F10/F11 enough.

So my honest opinion? Yes this system needs an overwork. Since we only have 12 judge slots, I don't think doing 2 teams would be the best option because of the overload of files to judge. 4 judge teams of 3 would give each judge even more trump power than they have currently. The two alternatives I have in mind would be:

a. Get more judges

This might not be a possibility seeing as how it's hard enough as is to get everyone to finish on time. (see: Patashu) Although I will admit, the current judge team is doing a really good job of getting notes done on time.

The more probable alternative would be:

b. Toss out the oddball score and make an accept 12 or 13/15

4 judges will still be in a team, just the rating that is most different from the others will be tossed out, resulting in a 15 point system. For example:

kommisar works really hard and makes the most badass file FFR has ever seen. The batch notes come out and he gets [++] [+] [+.] [?]. Under the current judge system, this file would not get queued because it only totals to 16/20. BUT if you toss out the odd 2/5 score, the total would be 14/15; A passing score. A different example:

Dr4g0nSly40r347 throws some piece of hindu throat singing crap together in half an hour. The notes come out and he gets [-] [?] [?] [+.]. While this would be rejected under both systems, the odd +. would be thrown out making for a more accurate depiction of how much of a piece of crap the file actually was. (9/20 vs. 5/15)




TL;DR: Current system gives too much power to the individual judge, we should throw out the most odd score to make a 'majority' type decision rather than a unanimous one.

[Mans0n]

I'd like to know if the judge who has't submitted their notes in for Sun and stars can please do that if they are online, because it's weird that only 1 judge's notes is missing for it, and it's the judge who decides the file's fate.

EDIT: I think personally that Rushy's idea about dropping the lowest score of all judge's scores is a beneficial idea. Because it's not fair that a file can have all +'s except for that one ?, or - that completely ****'s the shit out of their chances.

[rushyrulz]

He'll prolly ? it and trump reject.

[Mans0n]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

He'll prolly ? it and trump reject.

If that's the case I will have lost most if not all respect i have towards the current system used to judge files

[rushyrulz]

Step a more perfect file that somehow pleases all 4 judges equally the same.

Oh wait that won't even work, because 4(+.) = 16/20 luls

[iironiic]

I'd like to let you all know that my file is actually a borderline file.

[+][+][+?][+?] = 16 not 17.

EDIT: May I still send in a resubmission, or will I have to wait for next batch?

[T-Force]

Originally Posted by bmah

BMAH:
Passage D / iironiic
rating: [+?][>]

Originally Posted by bmah

WC:
Passage D(iironiic) - [+.]

Originally Posted by bmah

NIALA:
PASSAGE D - (iironiic) [+]

Originally Posted by bmah

SAMURAI:
Passage D (iironiic) [+?]

Originally Posted by bmah

HALOGEN:
Passage D (iironiic)
Rating: [+]

Uhhh... what?

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by iironiic

I'd like to let you all know that my file is actually a borderline file.

[+][+][+?][+?] = 16 not 17.

EDIT: maybe I still send in a resubmission, or will I have to wait for next batch?

W_C's didn't count -- shit. That was my bad because he was the person you were going against.

It would be a 16 after all.

EDIT: @ Rushy:
Dropping a score completely is rude to their notes and ideas. Sorry, but if they have a legitimate excuse, it shouldn't be completely thrown away. It's up to the stepartist to appeal ratings they think are complete crap, present a case so that JX and bmah can see it, and then have THEM decide, because they are the head judges.

Example for two files where my ratings trumped out:
Illumination -- this one can have a presented case and probably win because my notes were fairly vague, the structure feels incomplete but other judges don't seem to believe so.

HOWEVER:
He's a Pirate -- (and Mario, you know I like you as an artist, so don't take this offensively) this file is poorly structured and is generically syncopated. It doesn't follow specific things for a large majority of the song, and has a double-BPM section where the bass-drum isn't doubled in BPM -- the energy of the song doesn't serve as a reason to multiply the BPM and make all of the notes red and blue. To me, a structure mishap is necessary fix.

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

@ Rushy:
Dropping a score completely is rude to their notes and ideas.

You wanna know rude? See Dossar's 5/5/1/5. That's just a huge kick in the ass. The way one person thinks shouldn't dictate the outcome of a file especially in a 4 judge team, jsin. This is a problem, and it needs a solution, whether mine is valid or not.

[Mans0n]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

Step a more perfect file that somehow pleases all 4 judges equally the same.

Oh wait that won't even work, because 4(+.) = 16/20 luls

I didn't make a stepfile Im the one who made the song.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Halo, question regarding my file, this note here:

"- The jumps when the piano plays by itself are also unnecessary since it's a single hand playing on the piano."

Are you suffering to the middle section of the song?

[AsphyxZero]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Kirlian Changes: 3/4/1/5 (13)

oops

[Mans0n]

Ah I'm mistaken, Halo gave it a + and the other 2 judges +. So it's all up to i love you who im guessing gave it the same grade as the majority which was +. so that would be 17/20 which is a passing score ftw

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by iironiic

I'd like to let you all know that my file is actually a borderline file.

[+][+][+?][+?] = 16 not 17.

EDIT: May I still send in a resubmission, or will I have to wait for next batch?

Can I give it an extra point? I mean, it wasn't in my batch, but if it was I would have [++]'d.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

EDIT: @ Rushy:
Dropping a score completely is rude to their notes and ideas. Sorry, but if they have a legitimate excuse, it shouldn't be completely thrown away. It's up to the stepartist to appeal ratings they think are complete crap, present a case so that JX and bmah can see it, and then have THEM decide, because they are the head judges.

1) How often does a judge have an opinion so powerfully correct that the file needs to be rejected based on them alone, even though everyone else liked it? How do you know that one judge isn't looking for something no FFR player (and none of the other judges) cares about, or being totally subjective about the stepartist/difficulty/song?
2) First off, it seems pretty mean to say "your file is incredibly shitty and you should just stop stepping, oh but if you disagree maybe jx will be nice to you"; second, giving it to jx/bmah is basically changing from four judges' opinions to two, and I thought the whole four-judges system was supposed to avoid having one or two people personally decide your fate.

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Can I give it an extra point? I mean, it wasn't in my batch, but if it was I would have [++]'d.

The main reason why two of the judges gave me a [+?] was because of the lack of technicality when it was purposely made to be a fun file in the first place.

[ichliebekase]

Originally Posted by iironiic

The main reason why two of the judges gave me a [+?] was because of the lack of technicality when it was purposely made to be a fun file in the first place.

And wouldn't you be a little upset if your file didn't get in because of that reason?

Do we need to start tagging our files as "meant as an easy file" or "meant to be fun"? Not all files need to have every little buzz or drum hit stepped and apparently that's a problem to some judges.

[krunkykai22]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

W_C's didn't count -- shit. That was my bad because he was the person you were going against.

It would be a 16 after all.

EDIT: @ Rushy:
Dropping a score completely is rude to their notes and ideas. Sorry, but if they have a legitimate excuse, it shouldn't be completely thrown away. It's up to the stepartist to appeal ratings they think are complete crap, present a case so that JX and bmah can see it, and then have THEM decide, because they are the head judges.

Example for two files where my ratings trumped out:
Illumination -- this one can have a presented case and probably win because my notes were fairly vague, the structure feels incomplete but other judges don't seem to believe so.

HOWEVER:
He's a Pirate -- (and Mario, you know I like you as an artist, so don't take this offensively) this file is poorly structured and is generically syncopated. It doesn't follow specific things for a large majority of the song, and has a double-BPM section where the bass-drum isn't doubled in BPM -- the energy of the song doesn't serve as a reason to multiply the BPM and make all of the notes red and blue. To me, a structure mishap is necessary fix.

I agree if they have a LEGITIMATE excuse, but if everyone else gives them a 5 and for example you give them a 1, how is that a fair legitimate excuse? Shouldn't the whole judge team, since you are all elitist step artists apparently, shouldn't you all have and see the SAME errors? Or overlook a couple of them by mistake? To simply review something and mark it a 1 when NO ONE ELSE in the team sees the same error(s)? 3 -> 1 there.

personally, there shouldn't have to be a reason to PM JX cause of a discrepency. Should not even be there in the damn first place if you ask me.


EDIT: Also, I can see giving someone a 1 due to a horrible file. Off sync, missing notes, PR is off, so on and so forth. I could see this with a horrible horrible file. But, 5/5/5/1? That 1 should be marked a 3. Seriously. There you go, if its like 5/5/5/1 put it to 5/5/5/3. If its 4/4/4/1, put it to 4/4/4/4. Put the files to passing grade. Seriously. You don't grade a file that low if the file really isn't that bad.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

You wanna know rude? See Dossar's 5/5/1/5. That's just a huge kick in the ass. The way one person thinks shouldn't dictate the outcome of a file especially in a 4 judge team, jsin. This is a problem, and it needs a solution, whether mine is valid or not.

Metro made it in this time, so the whole 5/5/1/5 point is irrelevant. To be perfectly honest, I wanted to see Metro get rejected because it's going to be the next RATO: looks good as a stepchart, but when you play it, it turns out to be complete and utter aids (my own opinion).

Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127

Halo, question regarding my file, this note here:

"- The jumps when the piano plays by itself are also unnecessary since it's a single hand playing on the piano."

Are you suffering to the middle section of the song?

YES, I AM SUFFERING TO THE MIDDLE SECTION OF THE SONG, THANKS FOR ASKING

Assuming suffering means referring in your language, no, I'm not talking about the middle.

I'm actually referring to the introduction, where you have repeated descending scales, and the first note is accented with a jump. It's just a descending 4-3-2-1-4-3-2-1 (etc.) scale that repeats over and over again. When the strings come in, you could have an actual excuse to use jumps if you so chose to.

A lot of the pitch relevancy in the song is generally incorrect in terms of following the piano, and while I understand the accenting of jumps for heavier sounds or a louder piano, you should still try to improve upon the general pitch because the song itself is relatively short.

Originally Posted by AsphyxZero

oops

wasn't me -- I gave you a 4, haha

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by ichliebekase

And wouldn't you be a little upset if your file didn't get in because of that reason?

Do we need to start tagging our files as "meant as an easy file" or "meant to be fun"? Not all files need to have every little buzz or drum hit stepped and apparently that's a problem to some judges.

Eh.. to be honest, I don't really care. They worked really hard to come up with these ratings, and they are accurate for the most part. I can always resubmit it again.