TWG CLIX: Form your special exclusive groups now! - Game Thread

[mellonxcollie]

lmao

[Precarious]

botchi246

[mellonxcollie]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

lmao

this was meant to be in response to Charu's uuuuuuugh

[Charu]

Err... am I missing something? I don't remember you harping on botchi at all, Pre (except the recent posts about you not liking his posts and being inactive). Where's this vote coming from?

[roundbox]

Precarious AKA domo arigato mr. roboto

Originally Posted by Precarious

Yeah, but to be fair the robotic posts were more due to making meaningless game mechanics posts while not being caught up with the thread. To be fair, I'll do a lot of theorycrafting stuff regardless.

I'm assuming this refers to some meta read. I was considered robot for awhile, and to a point, may still be to some degree since I'm not really one to get heated.

I don't think I really need to go into all of his posts on the whole Charu thing since DaBackpack + many others already did

Originally Posted by Precarious

The finally admitting to the segment just being shitposting, by contrast, is a better look.

I would disagree. I have a picture to sum up my thoughts on the matter.

excuses are bad in TWG. I have yet to read Haku but this could influence my opinion on him.

[quote=Precarious;4482094]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Not to discount your points percarious (because they make sense) but you have a bit of misinformation I want to correct. Per the topic post, sk has to be the last alI've to win, not kill 4 people. Just correcting that on the off chance it's relevant later[/QUO

Yeah, you're right. Doesn't affect the analysis though.

the setup actually says they need 5 kills to win, but I imagine this would pretty much be the end of the game anyway, and this is a punish to a weak mafia if anything

Originally Posted by Precarious

So rather than doing a formal roster run, I'll reread through the game and just note what sticks out to me. Picking up from page 10 or so...

Haku uses the "I'm bad" card way too much. I don't even mean that as a scumtell, it's just kind of annoying (and so overused that it essentially becomes alignment-neutral, and in effect meaningless).

On ShadoW: After some basic commentary on the Gradiant-Freezin thing, he actually follows up with reads on Freezin and why they could point to a wolf. I'm not sure I agree, and it's hardly totally exculpatory--pouncing on someone who's made questionable reads is an easy way for a wolf to hide, and funnily enough seems to be almost what he's accusing of--but the post fits together logically for me. He then backs off later. This is somewhat similar to my general approach--I don't usually go heavy until I'm more convinced of something--and it's something that's replicable in either alignment. Overall, though, he sticks his neck out just slightly further than I'd expect from a wolf, so the slightest of town reads from this interaction.

On the other hand, I don't like his followup a little later. The whole "Wolfe" group things seems like it's almost daring WIFOM, which is a bit of a scummy play.

Ironically, Freezin's apparently disliked "explaining feints" is the most townie thing about them, since I can actually see where they're approaching from, and it feels like there's an actual purpose to the activity, not the hiding in plain sight you'd expect from a wolf/sk.

Page 13 is interesting because a lot of people who had said little to nothing so far appear (presumably after waking up/arriving at the beginning of the day/whatever) and then make generic statements that don't even have a shitposting quality to them--which is to say, they're almost deliberately empty and forgettable.

Action picks up more as the day moves along, but a lot of seems to be marching in place type stuff.

Freezin's willingness to challenge Gradiant looks good to me; there's no backing off from the challenge there. I can understand where they're coming from--Gradiant's almost too in control of his style--but overall I don't think he'd be so assured if he were anti-town. Bears watching though.

I find the Xel sort of going after Haku interesting. It's just cantankerous enough that I'd suspect distancing if the wolves had daychat, but they don't; moreover, the white text stuff makes it feel more like needling. I definitely don't think they're both wolves, and if one of them is it's probably Haku, although Xel's later stuff with other people felt overly chummy. (n.b. Theoretically you could have a wolf and an sk here, but that's statistically unlikely).

Basically, Haku's game seems a little more defensive than usual, and I don't like it. Freezin didn't look great early on, but later posting makes the body of work look very town. Gradiant's is consistent enough in his style that he's hard to read, but I lean town. I don't like how many people are hiding in plain sight, although to be fair I end up doing the same thing relatively often. I don't know how well that fits their metas though.

I have mixed feelings about this post, but I guess the positives outweigh the negatives. Positives being him doing a decent job explaining how he feels about reads with some evidence and situations plotted out. This is always good to see. However, I'm not a huge fan of generalizations like "theoretically you could have a..." since it doesn't really mean much here. Why bring it up? Curious. This coupled with the "hiding in plain sight" is another generalization. The other observations and comments outweigh it, imo.


stated earlier that I didn't like his vote on DaBackpack

Originally Posted by Precarious

Okay.

This is an escape post. It uses the "I'm no good to the wolves" defense again, ignoring the fact that throwing a teammate under the bus is a risky proposition at best, and one that would be hard to organize without looking artificial, particularly since it seems like daychat is uncommon on FFR.

I understand that you were being pushed on a topic you couldn't entirely control, but your reaction to this feel very defensive.

This was the most important post to my logic here, and I admit I could be reading it wrong. I don't know enough about you and Xel yet to know if there's past history between the two of you, and if your vote was more of a "don't be a jerk" thing than an actual play in game. But taken as a whole, it makes you feel a little jittery so far. Moreso than I've seen you in past games anyway.

solid post

Originally Posted by Precarious

The difference is, I have substance elsewhere. I actually am trying to solve the game. I don't know what you think you're doing. But to me, it looks like you're trying to preserve a veneer of activity, without actually producing enough substance that anything you say can be tied back to you.

so is this a wolf read on him? I think your problem with him can be summed up as "I'm making reads on more players than you, so I'm more townie." I don't know if I like the SNARK here

I agree with your thoughts on mechanical play. Not sure why you're getting so much flak for it.

Originally Posted by Precarious

If you make a gut read, you should try to support it and explain what leads to that gut feeling. That explanation is evidence. Whether it's good evidence or not is for the player base to decide.

agreed, but thinking back this shouldn't influence me reading you more towny/scummy for this. it's just a playstyle

Originally Posted by Precarious

This is taking way too fucking long.

agreed

not voting precarious today, I feel like people here are suffering a CULTURE SHOCK and are hanging onto the fact that he spent more time than people would think on analyzing Charu's claim

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by Charu

Err... am I missing something? I don't remember you harping on botchi at all, Pre (except the recent posts about you not liking his posts and being inactive). Where's this vote coming from?

well, to be fair, the lack of there being anything makes it hard to harp on botchi for anything besides not existing

[roundbox]

Xelnya AKA middie AKA "madoka_magica_num1"

honestly just read this post and you'll see he's showing strong town or he's going for MVP deep wolf again

not worth considering until way late in the game.

Xel is TOWN (with a side of potential deep wolf. maybe sk too? FUCK)

[Precarious]

I thought the day was ending, so I was kind of abridging stuff, but the problem comes down to this: no one that's been active profiles convincingly to me as a wolf. There are problems here and there, most notably with Shado, but there's enough positive there as well that I was worried I was reading myself into him (Shado has done several things I would do as a wolf). (The other active poster I have some issues with is Xel, but I'm not even sure how to begin explaining them. Xel feels less like town/wolf/sk and more like a person from the next town over enjoying the chaos).

That left me with the less active posters. In the case of Zenith, there's obviously nothing to go on. Given the circumstances, he gets a pass. Roundbox bothers me a lot, but his play seems almost self-destructive if he's actually a wolf. I'm still not sold on DBP, but I feel like I was tunneling earlier and the response on coming back is more solid than anything from them to this point. DFR doesn't have a whole lot that I'm reading positively or negatively right now.

Botchi may be following meta for all I know, but for someone so tremendously inactive, the jokey posts felt problematic. Someone said that botchi tends to self-destruct as a wolf, and if so, the combination of inactivity and joke posts feels like a way to avoid getting into situations where that inactivity might be called into question. To be honest, he doesn't look quite as bad in isolation posts, and if we have more time, I'll reread the last ~10 pages a little more carefully.

[roundbox]

what part of my play is self-destructive? Have you been ignoring the fact I've been posting for the last two hours?

[Precarious]

Originally Posted by roundbox

Xel is TOWN (with a side of potential deep wolf. maybe sk too? FUCK)

This is my favorite thing you've said all game. Because I have no idea what Xel is, or is doing.

[Precarious]

Originally Posted by roundbox

the setup actually says they need 5 kills to win, but I imagine this would pretty much be the end of the game anyway, and this is a punish to a weak mafia if anything

This is actually the same mistake I made (and what I was acknowledging in that post), but while the link says the SK needs X kills, the OP notes that the SK must be the only player left alive.

[danceflashrevo]

DaBackpack - I did read him as town, I want to see more activity. Stuff like this

Originally Posted by DBP #284

reading into Charu's claim is a waste of cognition, and it's analyzing it is an easy way to feign investment in the game imo

and

Originally Posted by DBP #288

bringing it up is fine and dandy but I want to make sure it's not a substitute for solving the game

come from a very town mindset IMO. That scenario could have been the main subject of the game but now we ended up talking about other things and had other interactions. On the downside he didn't have his first post really until

Originally Posted by DBP #276/277

Freezinice and Haku are probably never on the same wolf team here

and honestly I have freezin and gradiant both as town rn

and that was a solid eleven of his 38 posts (as I'm writing this). The reason why I'm okay with this is in my past experience with him, the fact that he's active is good. He has a back and forth with precarious that I'm not quoting because that'd be a bitch to commentate on (dbp responded in quote). A lot of it is early early d0 nitpicking, and precarious was quick to jump on it imo. I wouldn't read into that interaction to define dbp.

Originally Posted by DBP 501

Haku's probably town

Originally Posted by DBP 559

there's a lot of petty squabbling in this thread rn

actually I don't know if it's petty because I haven't actually read all of it but I'm gonna say it's petty

Mindmeld.

However, There was promise for reads that never really showed up. He did change his mind on precarious with that unvote but other than that, nada. Theoretically he will be back but inactivity issues and absence of actual content lead me to change him to null.

Will be finishing as the night progresses, I'm kinda multitasking with IRL stuff rn

[Precarious]

Originally Posted by roundbox

what part of my play is self-destructive? Have you been ignoring the fact I've been posting for the last two hours?

I was rushing, but from what I saw your play felt like it would backfire if you are a wolf. Since we have time, I'll revisit your posts more carefully.

[inDheart]

backpack isn't the type to do condensed reads posts i believe, he's more the stream of consciousness type actually, so if you're looking for a block of solid delicious thought to sink your teeth into, don't hold your breath

[danceflashrevo]

I wasn't but his disappearance is slightly alarming. Albeit it might be irl stuff and I don't wanna jump to conclusions

[roundbox]

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

I wasn't but his disappearance is slightly alarming. Albeit it might be irl stuff and I don't wanna jump to conclusions

he said he was going to a birthday party bro

[danceflashrevo]

Ik bro. I meant before. He disappeared before he came back today

[inDheart]

i saw a sign that was like "wolfe industries" or sth but i missed it, dammit

where juckter?

i really like roundbox's return and his xel read makes perfect sense. prec, xel is acting pretty normal, but box is likely referencing the game he hosted where xel fooled us all up to an untimely end. WIM attitude for sure, just will show his true colors later rather than earlier

[Precarious]

Updated roundbox review:

Reads considerably differently when I see he had a lot more content than I was giving him credit for. I still don't agree with some of his reads (I don't read juckter into the green, although I see how he gets there; I still see nothing of merit from early DBP), but at least I see where they're coming from. More importantly, that he's actually pressuring people for details is pro-town in effect, regardless of alignment. Increasingly unlikely to be a wolf. A serial killer is more possible, but if so the late burst of posts could be hazardous as hard reads could attract a wolf attack. Town lean atm.

[Precarious]

Wouldn't mind seeing his thoughts on the other players though. (I'm guessing that's coming?)