TWG CLIX: Form your special exclusive groups now! - Game Thread

[Hakulyte]

@ Precarious

I don't really have anything to add about you. You sounded like frustrated town which is good enough today for me.

I'm waiting for DBP as well.

[roundbox]

Zenith/R.E. Arxyi AKA cheese slap progenitor

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Pretty sure at this point Gradiant is town and I wouldn't advocate a vote on him this phase.

Indheart is weird
Roundbox is funny and looking town right now
dfr made an entrance and zi could safely place him at null/town lean

I know he just joined but ya need evidence m8
what have I done to look town this game?? I look like shit fmpov

not enough posts to call you anything but NULL AS FUCK
this is also taking into consideration that you just joined us
have fun

[inDheart]

actually i am really underwhelmed by dfr

i know from the game we were in together that he has the potential to be an active voice, and he's not showing that here

his incremental update to a reads list from a day and a half ago, and his oversimplification at reading the game's big events thus far, makes me think he hasn't been reading hard at the game like he seemed to be then

he mentioned being overwhelmed post-wise but "nervous, scared" might fit the bill better

[inDheart]

kowtowing to the more present people of the game might be ok when your posts, if fewer, have a pulse to them when you make them

otherwise, nope

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by inDheart

he mentioned being overwhelmed post-wise

actually i just went to look for where he said this and i'm having trouble finding it? huh

[inDheart]

nah i'm good, i see it again, it's right before he dropped his first reads

[inDheart]

okay, caught up in terms of things i wanted to respond to

people i'm warmest on are charu, gradiant, hakulyte and i'm not touching any of them today
also not touching zenith while he hasn't finished reading the game yet, at least, though i do remember that one game where he had been checking in and seemed to disappear around when he was on the table
i think i'd be receptive to a case against most other people, though of course they're along a spectrum; like i think better of precarious now after turning his words over once more but where i am i wouldn't think twice if dfr or juckter becomes a wagon

i have to leave home, and i'll be phone posting for however long i'm still available

[roundbox]

mellonxcollie AKA raeko

she has some ok first posts analyzing the game with an original mindset. It's a little hard for me to read these in context based on the way I'm conducting my reads right now, but I don't think anything is too outlandish.

the more I read of her posts the less certain I am about reading her. I don't know why, but I'm having a hard time here.

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

I really don't like this post.

I agree that pure gut reads aren't very helpful *to other players* and that logic should be used in forming opinions.

But this is TWG. When you're a vanilla townie playing TWG, logic can only take you so far because you don't have any facts to back up the logic. All you have is what you *think* you know, AKA what your gut tells you is the most likely scenario.

The only people who can play TWG without their gut are the people who do not need to use it because they already know. aka the wolves

Robotic posts like your's don't actually really help. we can all figure the mechanics out on our own thank you. What helps is saying your personal opinions about things and your reads

here's her second dive on Precarious for sounding like he has too much info. I'm kinda surprised she didn't put a vote on him here. probably not super significant, but it could mean something if she doesn't take much action or consider him up for voting later.

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

I agree

I was worried about catching up with the thread today but it was all just bickering. Some of it was extremely hilarious but still.

I'm having a hard time coming up with ideas about the exchanges because they seemed a little... pointless?

agreed


I kinda want to put her on the conditional null side with a few paths she could take to move this up or down. I'll expand on this as I see more things.

[Precarious]

Reread is taking a while (and will be very long), so I'll post in chunks.

Expectedly, a lot of shit posting early. It is interesting to see people who are willing to be active in the joke phase but clam up later.

inD made a post analyzing Charu's claim, but it was kind of off. This was the first time I had to explain this shit.

There's some more discussion of the Charu claim (and everyone (except Haku surprisingly) overlooks the counterclaim part.) No content or discussion that's actually pertinent though until Gradiant dislikes a couple Haku posts.

Freezin sort of defends Haku and this is what sets off the whole Freezin-Gradiant thing I guess. At least at first, they go after each other politely; the civility is notable because it makes the whole thing feel more reasonable. At this stage, I'd be town reading both Gradiant and Freezin.

#154 is a concerning post for Freezin. It feels almost blackmail-y (if you do X, I won't like it) while also allowing an out by not doing X.

Xel is jabbing a lot, mixed with shitposting. Don't know if this is their meta.

Gradiant was actually more agressive toward Haku than Freezin early on it seems.

Haku really played up the "I'm bad" angle early.

Shado made a case against Freezin. It wasn't super compelling, but wasn't terrible either (basically made Freezin out to be jumping around too much). Freezin made a somewhat reasonable response. There were a few sparks here.

Shado seems a little overly chummy a bit later there.

Gradiant is very consistent stylistically. Short posts, and to the point, but they have a purpose to them. I can follow what he's trying to say, and why, when he posts something.

The "Freezin coaching Haku" thing seems a little overblown, given that the "advice" was so basic that it wasn't really worth posting, but Haku seemed kind of defensive about it. Which I've said before.

If Freezin is a wolf, they're pretty good at remaining under control when pressured.

Shado bothers me a bit, because his playstyle reminds me of what I would do as a wolf. It feels opportunistic, like he's getting credit for participating in ideas, while hovering just off the edge of claiming them, leaving others to actually take the heat. At the same time, nothing he's argued actually seems particularly wrong to me.

Xel's "Everything is important" is the most useful thing they've said so far. Xel and Haku's arguing feels a lot less important on re-read.

[DaBackpack]

so tl;dr I fucked up really bad and just got out of bed and will going out in 30 minutes so I'm going to do my best in this allotted time

good news is that I'll probably be back in time for EoD

I know ppl are gonna be mad, and I'm sorry, I messed up

[DaBackpack]

goddamn Charu put in serious work

[DaBackpack]

I don't like precarious and shadow calling my push on precarious "weak" or "non-committal", I thought I had a good reason behind it

[danceflashrevo]

Originally Posted by inDheart

why did you just paste edits over your previous reads? did really not that much change?

Basically. Got a null or two changed. It didn't feel like that long ago tbhwhich is why I just fetched it.

[danceflashrevo]

Originally Posted by inDheart

actually i am really underwhelmed by dfr

i know from the game we were in together that he has the potential to be an active voice, and he's not showing that here

his incremental update to a reads list from a day and a half ago, and his oversimplification at reading the game's big events thus far, makes me think he hasn't been reading hard at the game like he seemed to be then

he mentioned being overwhelmed post-wise but "nervous, scared" might fit the bill better

Okay this is hella meta and idc if this affects your view of me but that was definitely my most vocal game ever. It's why I made the point why I was in the top 3 in post count. It kinda alarmed me lmao. I find myself underwhelming in this game in general /shrug

[danceflashrevo]

I r mad at u dbp. Not really but please be back. In case I'm not back unvote

Roundbox showing up with some #hotreads

[DaBackpack]

I'm starting with the lowest posters bc time

Originally Posted by botchi246

well i have finally finished reading all this stuff.
first of all, screw you charu for starting this game off with serious stuff. also, dont lynch charu

the more i read freezinice and gradiants exchanges, the more i think they are town vs. town. it feels to me that they both got excited early and then now are harboring "early-game paranoia" or EGP (<--lol) if you will.

a post like this immediately signals to me that botchi is town. you can call this a meta-read -- botchi doesn't usually put this much "critical thought" into his posts as a wolf. On top of that, he seems rather cool and collected, and less agitated, which reflects well on him

Originally Posted by botchi246

i suppose you could say you have immunity for d0. i say you should get wild and go crazy with this thread.

we see investment in the game's outcome by suggesting that Charu should take the lead here

Originally Posted by botchi246

this whole wagon thing.

it is consider hopping on a wagon if you are hoping to start a wagon. you do not have to vote for him, but your posts can indicate who you would be ok with lynching (lol ofc). Even if you are not attacking him, the previous sentence applies here. It really just depends on your intentions.

"Hey, guy #1 said stuff about this guy #2. I agree with guy #1, so i dont like #2." -jumpnig on wagon

"Hey, guy #1 said stuff about this guy #2. I agree with guy #1 but i dont want to judge #2 until i have made my own conclusions." -not jumping on the wagon

just examples ( i think they work)

this just isn't wolf botchi

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

I r mad at u dbp. Not really but please be back. In case I'm not back unvote

Roundbox showing up with some #hotreads

I know I fucked up not just now but this entire phase, all I can really do to defend myself atm is ask people to look at my tone over the phase

[roundbox]

dfr AKA best vengeful LTWG player

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

hey guys i haven't posted that much grill me grill me

btw that was a lot of actual content. shadow jumped off of freezinice and then brushed it off as not important, when any interaction could be important. haku's being haku. i don't have to read charu this game or something. and yeah i think that's what i got so far.

commentary, not a read. rip u

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

Catching up more you hopped on DBP's suspicion of precarious. But tbf this playstyle could be observed in this past turbo where he was, in fact, a wolf. Meta reads yay. However if I recall correctly, precarious mentioned that he plays raw/mechanics regardless of role, I guess we might find out huh?

what does this mean? give me a read
he reads xel later in this post and says he likes his tone without examples

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

1. inHard (inDheart) - town from what i've seen, nothing sticking out
2. Hakuright (Hakulyte) - haku
3. R.e.ally Xi (R.E. Aryxi) - null
4. SurelyWolfe (Shadowolfe) - eh, null, not sure what to make yet. btw i liked the garfield comic.
6. Charuzard (Charu) - charu
7. Greatiant (Gradiant) - town in my book, i've liked town and content, but idk what to make of this secondary interaction w/ freezin just yet
8. FreezeInIce (FreezinIce) - null. if gradiant and freezin are w/v then i'm more likely to vote freezin because i haven't like his tone much, and it does feel ad hominemy which can be used to fluff up accusations with "content". claims others are mudslinging when he surely is too.
9. DaKnapsack (DaBackpack) - town, actual content.
10. PriCARius (Precarious) - still null, im not quite sure how to read precarious because he mentions himself that his play style is heavy mechanics and theory, but that's regardless of side and i'm not really sure what else to go off. the vote on dbp feels out of nowhere and also misguided but i don't scum read him for that
11. boundrocks (roundbox) - null
12. ho246 (botchi246) - null
13. Sell?Nah (XelNya) - town. i've liked his content thus far
14. Lucker1 (Juckter1) - town. also liked his content, feel like town contributing
15. melanxcholy (mellonxcollie) - eh null.

^somewhat reads. they're not very refined yet.

need evidence dawg. not even a slight wolf on precarious??

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

i town read aj

why

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

wolfe you seem to be a lot more aggressive in this game than the game/rerolls that I played with you most recently. Any reasons I would have that perception?

"tell me why you're weird"
come on DFR, you can do better than this

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

What I mean specifically by aggressiveness is you seem much more offensive this game. You were mislynched because town was being stupid.

does this mean you like him, or?? you have him as null in your reads and don't really make any commentary as to why he's null, even with this aggressive thing

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

Probably wouldn't lynch haku tonight unless someone convinces me otherwise. Charu this list you're putting out is fun to read lol

WHY? Citation missing

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

rereading i think shadows kinda unlikely to be wolf. not gonna lynch him either.

WHY? Citation missing

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

Is roundbox's meta to be more quiet as a wolf? He should def be pressured before EoD.

roundbox

I appreciate the pressure vote here, but this made me laugh pretty hard. No, being quiet is not my wolf meta, as far as I know.

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

tbf it's early, and he's a vet so he better fkin come for EoD cuz that'd be bad show if he didn't

juckter surely hasn't been a sore thumb and I feel like all of his content was genuine and town toned. if he were a wolf for some reason i feel like he'd be playing a lot different.

well, yeah, it WOULD be bad. it'd be different if I was in thread making baby posts instead of saying "I'll get caught up when I have time", which would fall in line more with the "quiet" meta you considered

Originally Posted by danceflashrevo

After rereading juckter my town read stands. He doesn't have a lot of content. A lot of his posts are "catching up" and "brb" and stuff

but the posts that he has made have been original and seem to put himself out there, and I simply don't think he would do that as a wolf. One example of this is he goes out of his way to defend gradiant. inb4 they're wolf bros but I find that very unlikely.

I don't get this last line of reasoning, mostly because you make a very neutral response saying "yeah he's town for randomly defending this guy. he could be a wolf, but he's probably not because (oh I don't have a reason why he couldn't be a wolf for doing this)"

Originally Posted by XelNya

If a lot of his posts are catching up / brb and he hasn't yet, shouldn't he be a null read rather than a town read? Ay cool, he defended someone, but I don't think he's said enough at all to warrant anything more than a null and I struggle to reach that same conclusion.

<MINDMELD>
I know I'm not on xelnya yet, but this is exactly what I'm thinking

dfr, you're looking rather SUSPICIOUS!!

[FreezinIce]

I'm going to be out and will be only here sporadically on my phone. I'll probably make eod with an hour to spare. Till then, just want to throw something out before I fall off for a while.

I think charu's analysis so far is the best comprehensive review of activity I could have asked for. Even if he is roasting me, I cant even be mad because that's pretty much the best someone could do from the outside looking in. I think he assigned alot of people certain roles based on first impressions and is changing his perception of everyone based on how they interact with his established paradigm. I won't judge if that's good or not until he finishes and I can see where it led him ultimately, but like dhart I found myself thinking/agreeing with alot of his points. I couldnt see myself voting for either of them even if charu hadn't outed himself already. Something that cropped up alot in his analysis is how much stock he puts on meta reads. He seemed annoyed that I wasnt following some pattern, and even asked for outside help from someone who played with me previously to try to get a read on my "meta".

If it wasn't obvious by now, I personally put very little stock in meta reads. Not only because I have no access to them due to having not played for years, but because by nature they are not static. Metas evolve with the player, case in point how everyone bashed me about not judging haku based on what he's done previously, then act surprised when he contributes meaningful content in a way that's borderline insulting. I react to what people do in the here and now, and I'll reiterate, that's my attitude towards every player.

That said, reading and playing are two different things, and I can say with authority that the feelings I have during this game will do more to help me familiarize myself with each player than reading 10 of their games would. So for everyone who was bemoaning my lack of meta insight, you have your answer now I guess. I don't think there's any world where I would brush off getting torched like that, even if alot of it was justified. So if this post seems reactionary and defensive, that's because it is.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by juckter1

Ugh why do you guys have to make like 7 pages when I'm asleep

I'll catchup later when I'm more awake

a lot of ppl were giving him shit for not following through but I understand why he might not do that since I've pretty much been doing that this entire phase, so I'm totally sympathetic to "not feeling like it"

Originally Posted by juckter1

Uh, are you suggesting dbp is feigning activity? If I'm misinterpreting your post then that's fine, but I doubt he's trying to pretend to be active. Out of the iso you provided around half of the posts are shitposts and the remaining posts, even if they're short, are actually pushing on something and are actual content.

This just feels like you're trying to justify omgus for some reason

Originally Posted by juckter1

Ok, so basically the game so far has been mostly about Gradiant vs Freez, Shado vs inDheart and Precarious vs DBP.

Gradiant vs Freez is a nice interaction that has made Gradiant look really town in my eyes. Freez is way more difficult to read in comparison. While I like that he has been posting really naturally, his tone and his content have varied wildly throughout the entire interaction which makes him really difficult to read in my eyes.

Shado vs inDheart reads like a TvT. I was initially giving town points to Shado for pressing on inDheart who was almost universally town read, as it seems like a risky move for a wolf to take, but Shado is probably ballsy enough to do it as either alignment. Regardless, there was some sound logic on both parts and I feel okay giving both of them townleans.

Precarious vs DBP was utter shit compared to those two previous interactions and I really want to talk more about it.

To summarize what happened, DBP came and gave Precarious a vote because he wanted him to post reads instead of mechanics (#282, #284, #286, #288), and Shadow also places a vote on Precarious, increasing pressure. Later, Precarious says he is working on reads and that he wants to see DBP's, while saying that posting mechanics is his playstyle and implying it's not a good reason to vote him (#365). Then, DBP responds to Precarious' previous post, and again tells him to produce reads (#381). Afterwards, Precarious gives a read post (#388), and then accuses DBP of feigning activity and being empty, and places a vote on him (#398). DBP and Precarious proceed to spar for a little while, until in post 433 DBP says he'll respond to Precarious' previous posts later, which he doesn't after coming back. Precarious comes back earlier today and casually unvotes DBP without giving any reasoning or followup (#601).

I have some stuff that I want to say, but before that I would like to know why Precarious and DBP decided to abandon their fight.

@Precarious: Why did you unvote DBP?
@DBP: Why did you not respond to Precarious' post like you said you would?

Also:



Heh, it was Shado who was talking about Charu being a slip, but his logic can apply to this post too. Why am I in your thoughts dear?

Anyways, I'll start writing up my thoughts regarding the interaction, because they'll probably have some value regardless of what DBP and Precarious say, and because I'm very slow at typing stuff in this game. I apologize for being absent for so long, I was legitimately physically feeling like shit through most of yesterday and today.

at the end of the day I'm probably still going to give you a pass because you did dig up a point that almost nobody else was thinking about at the time, but I'm wondering what led you from point A to point B here ---- those two posts are consecutive (separated by time obviously), and sure you had time to think about them, but it's a bit of whiplash when looking at them next to each other in ISO. namely that you were initially sympathetic to me in the first post and then nearly 180'd in the next post. I have a few possible explanations in my mind, but I want you to explain it from your mouth