The New "Religion"

[makaveli121212]

what the hell are you talking about...if bush wanted to pass law abolishing gay marriage, why would he need to make one against alduterers...because the bible says its a sin and its banishable...i mean if you really want ancient writings to rule our lives then so be it, but in modern terms your theory makes absolutely no sense

[VxDx]

Originally Posted by Laharl

I think the thread has turned into such that it proves what I've been getting at.

In today's world, if you are religious at all, you are considered "stupid" and wrong.

If this was directed towards what I said, then allow me to retort.

Religion is fine, and I have many religious friends that I respect and don't htink they are stupid at all. I can't say that religion is wrong either, which is why I'm not atheist, but agnostic. My opinion is that of apathy towards religion because of its inability to be proven either way. As far as what I said, I was referring to the fact that he said that he's walked beside god, and that's why he believes in god. That is no proof of god. If he had said that he believes in god, and left it at that, fine. My major gripe with people who argue the existance of god is that they don't really see that there is no proof that god exists, and the only arguement for belief is that it doesn't hurt to believe and if it happens to be true, after death a believer will be much better off. Don't, however, go saying that you've experienced god. Sure, if you believe in god, I'm sure you feel something when you go to church, but I'm also sure that it's entirely psychosomatic.

[makaveli121212]

people have string beliefs there is no reason to put someone down because they say they have walked with God...he had an experience and based on that experience he believes God exists...fine, my question is, why the hell do you care what his reasons are for believing what he does...what may be proof to him maynot mean anything to you, fine, thats great, but he was not saying that since God walked with him everyone should now believe it

[VxDx]

Fine, whatever. I stated my opinion just like him, but I really don't care so we'll leave it at that.

[COBOL]

It seems to me that every religion but Judaism and Christianity is accepted these days.The politically correct people are taking down Christian relics (such as the ten commandments in Alabama courthouse) and saying its wrong,well the U.S. was founded on Christianity. Now people say its wrong to teach Christianity in school but ok to teach evolution and the bang well FUCK them!

[jewpinthethird]

The U.S. was founded by Puritans.

Evolution (aka Mutation) is taught because it is a widely accepted theory (the only reason it is a theory is because we have not actually witnessed the evolution of a new species yet due to the fact it takes millions of years).


As for the Big Bang...I dont know, there isnt enough evidence for me to back that up.

Chrisitianity is taught in public schools because NOT EVERYONE IS A FUCKING CHRISTIAN.

Though I am liberal, I do not believe in taking politically correct to the extremes it has been taken to.

On a side note:

"One nation under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance in the 1950s during the Cold War to protest the Godless Soviet Union. It was not originally apart of the Pledge of Allegiance.

[Anonymous]

The U.S. was founded by Puritans.

which would be christians

Chrisitianity is taught in public schools because NOT EVERYONE IS A FUCKING CHRISTIAN

and not everyone believes in evolution, enough said.

I believe the Bible has a passage in it somewhere that basically says not to take the Bible so seriously. Not exactly a contradiction, but... Works well enough.

Please show me that verse.

[quote]saying that you've "walked beside" god and talked to him is bullshit. By your logic, I could say that when I vividly dream about anything, it really happened becuase, in my mind, I did it. Using that as the basis of your faith is interesting, but you still are blindly believing in something that has no more basis in reality than a simple dream.[quote]

Alright, I have never taken a mind-altering substance in my life (besides caffiene). I wasn' dreaming, but definetly walking around outside. And It's not like I had one amazing expirence, I can feel God all the time. Now you may think I'm crazy and call it BS, and I'm cool with that because it DOES sound crazy. But don't you think its a little absurd to say it's impossible, just because you have never felt God's presence? If you don't want to believe in God, he respects your choice and doesn't really show himself to you.

[Anonymous]

By the way, that was me, sorry!

[Anonymous]

Schools don't oppress religion, it is mandated by the consititution that they cannot advance or inhibit religion this is seen through supreme court cases, evolution is taught because it's a scientific theory, who cares if not everyone believes it, it's scientific theory, in AP human geography we learned about a theory called environmental determinism, I sure as hell don't believe it, but that doesn't mean it's not part of the "evolution" of theories seen through history, religion is a trivial topic to argue about, some people will admantly stand up for what they believe in, that's fine, others will admantly argue against other's beliefs, so be it. Let people believe in what they want to. Here are a few philosophical arguements I have seen for god, they are not my own and all of them are flawed:

Transcendental Argument
1. If reason exists then God exists.
2. Reason exists.
3. Therefore, God exists.

Cosmological Argument
1. If I say something must have a cause, it has a cause.
2. I say the universe must have a cause.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.
4. Therefore, God exists.

Ontological Argument I
1. I define God to be X.
2. Since I can conceive of X, X must exist.
3. Therefore, God exists.

Ontological Argument II
1. I can conceive of a perfect God.
2. One of the qualities of perfection is existence.
3. Therefore, God exists.

Teleological Argument
1. Check out the world/universe/giraffe. Isn't it complex?
2. Only God could have made them so complex.
3.Therefore, God exists.


But these cannot be rationalized by science. Remember also "I think, therefore I am." Descartes.

I am an Agnostic, I am willing to accept any true proof, not your theist bullshit about the beauty of this world and stuff. I want real or convincing proof, both sides of the arguement are flawed.

If you were going to prove the existence of something intangible but all-pervasive in your life, like say, your own self-awareness, how would you do it? Give us ground rules for what you're asking for. You say you want convincing proof. Do you mean, if it doesn't convince you it must not be proof? It seems you are assuming that if there's a God, there would be a series of words someone could type on a screen that would make you believe it. Does that seem likely, all things considered?

Here is my theory:

One day a man set off on a journey.

He departed from a state of unselfconscious brute-hood and arrived in the new world of sentient reflective being.

Immediately upon his arrival he was stricken with awe and wonderment.

He soon began to ask ultimate questions.

Unable to explain or make sense of existence he created god.

And it has been going on ever since.

And so the man went around talking about god. And wise men when they heard him understood what god was. They knew it was an idea, a concept, and that god existed only in the inner realm of theory but not in actuality.

But there were many fools who were easily deceived and they believed in god quite literally and saw him as an old man with a long grey beard who lived above the clouds.

And there was war between the wise men and the fools.

And it has been going on ever since!

And the man regretted ever creating god.

Enjoy,

Specforces

[Specforces]

That was me by the way, logged out for having too much damn time on my hands.

[Anonymous]

Really if there was a god would you want to worship him. Look at the world, its pretty messed up. If a god like that can create a world like this then I want no part of him.

[VxDx]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Alright, I have never taken a mind-altering substance in my life (besides caffiene). I wasn' dreaming, but definetly walking around outside. And It's not like I had one amazing expirence, I can feel God all the time. Now you may think I'm crazy and call it BS, and I'm cool with that because it DOES sound crazy. But don't you think its a little absurd to say it's impossible, just because you have never felt God's presence? If you don't want to believe in God, he respects your choice and doesn't really show himself to you.

I'll admit, now, that I have 10000x more respect for you. You responded in the best possible way to that. I suppose I just don't believe what you believe, and can't see how you could believe it, but what I said was definately overly harsh. I really should just have let you alone, and not said anything.

[Specforces]

VxDx, you keep earning more and more of my respect too, I know you were just trying to keep forums interesting in the past, but the fact that you just posted that makes you a hell of better person then a lot of these people give you credit for.

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Grandiagod

Really if there was a god would you want to worship him. Look at the world, its pretty messed up. If a god like that can create a world like this then I want no part of him.

That's the most fucking ignorant thing I've seen all day. I'm evading the swear filters just for you because that is really, really stupid.

Look at the world. Look at how it works. Everything in it renews itself. Water will never cease, because it will always evaporate from wherever it last was and return to the clouds to return to the land and seas and oceans. All natural creatures are capable of reproducing themselves.

If your comment is towards crime, you're a huge fool. "Let's blame God for the mistakes of mankind! That'll teach him!" Ugh. God let us have free will. That's the only blame you can lay at His feet for the way humans treat each other, because it's all up to individual people what they will do.

I've got a friend that got herself pregnant. She's not yet 18. It's a bad thing she's gotten herself into, something that people consider a problem in the world (for the record, it IS, I'm just saying). Is this God's fault for creating a "disgusting world", or is it the fault or her and her boyfriend for going too far and not realizing the consequences(sp?)?

[Laharl]

The login on this board is seriously screwed up. That was me just above.

[Privateer]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anybody's point, but he was basically trying to say that if it is her fault that she got pregnant, why doesn't God do something about it?\

Again, I'm a neutral reader.

[IronMonk]

to argue gods side

let me ask you something, if dark didnt exist, would you know what light was? if red didnt exist woudl you know what orange was? to argue against your point, assuming god was the creator of all life, and infinatly loving and such, there would have to be bad in teh world to recognise the good.

Do you enjoy Freedom?

without bad, there is no Freedom. if every person went about their lives doing only good then there is no choice.



to argue against god.

firstly whoever quoted st. aquinas you have altered his text considderably.

here is largly unedited version of aquinases first truth

The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e., that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

now after you read that, ask one simple question and it all falls apart

"who/what put god in motion?"

for a more indepth explanation of a possible explanation of god look at my post under chances of you happeneing.

[Laharl]

Originally Posted by Privateer

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anybody's point, but he was basically trying to say that if it is her fault that she got pregnant, why doesn't God do something about it?\

Again, I'm a neutral reader.

Even in the Bible, God never did any sort of divine intervention like that. If people were going to screw up, God let them. It is their own fault.

I am of the belief God is kind of fed up with humanity right now and doesn't feel like causing something like the flood that covered the earth with Noah because there wouldn't be a point to it. He's just waiting until the time is right to send Jesus back down again. You know, the whole book of Revelations bit.

[Specforces]

I shall start with the five classic proofs for the existence of God..by St. Thomas Aquanis.

1. First Mover...everything is in motion so something must have set it all in motion..an unmoved Prime Mover.
2. First Cause
3. Neccessary Being..all things in the Universe are contingent upon something. Ultimate source of all contingencies...God.
4. Greatest Being...you cannot think of anyting greater than God.
5. Intelligent Design.


and here's another proof.

Values exist in the world...(they tell us for instance that is wrong to kill little babies), but they are not in the world, say in the same way as a table or a chair. By definition then, they must come from outside the world/Universe....what is the only thing outside the Universe..God.

Let the Games begin...

[SephirothFF7]

Religion is the ultimate and oldest form of control. By getting followers to your religion you can bend and twist them in any way you want to suit your wants or needs. That's why all religion is bullsh!t