Thoughts on President Bush and Iraq

[hafelife]

Originally Posted by Dwhite

I think we should've trained prisoners instead of good kids to go over there. Instead our prisoners get to watch TV with a roof over their head and 3 meals daily while our kids are getting a tent and killed. Personally that is not cool. This is a war that will never end! Look at the history behind these people, it dates back to the Bible. America got involved decades before 9/11 and it caught up to us. Americans cannot handle the truth. I remember seeing Bush's face while he was in a classroom, his advisor told him the twin towers were hit, he sat there a minute with a blank face! Americans all think it could never happen to this all mighty country...WRONG. They slapped our government in the face and brutally killed. Howabout the hurricane that totally wiped out New Orleans? No one ever thought IT would happen. The people on welfare standing on their roofs waiting on someone to give them something, waiting on someone to save them, while other resourceful people grabbed a boat beside them floating by and used it. "Just Pay taxes, We are on our own" that says to me. The president couldn't stop the twin towers from happening, who knows what's next? Because the way America thinks, there's always going to be loop holes for terrorist to get through it's just a matter of time. Good Luck to us all!!!!

OK i no this is a little off topic but the hole resone New Orleans got "wiped out" is because the levees where crack and the dum asses thought it wouldn't brake and there were people were telling to governor to fix it but noooooooooo he/she didn't ( i cant remember who the governor is ) if they fix the levees then they would not have been on there roof waiting for help im really happy that Bush didn't do any thing for a week it well teach them to be smarter and when you have some thing as imported as keeping 10 million (i don't no if that the real number ) gallons of water back and there cracked you need to fix them and im not even going to start on the pumps so srry for getting off topic but i just had to say it

[Admirable]

Originally Posted by purebloodtexan

OK, for everyone that's still confused about the whole reason why we're in there, Bush's statement was:

"...to disarm Iraq, and to free its people."

Now to pick out particulars.



As one-sided and fanboy-ish as this sounds......

Bush might not be the smartest man, and his council might be less intelligent than him (Who's more foolish?), which means that if the COUNCIL suggests something, Bush might follow. Bad blood leads to bad blood.



If you read the billion posts explaining the origins of the war on terrorism, you'd know that we were originally in there because Saddam was a threat and he supposedly had weapons of mass destruction. I'm sorry for all the mess that goes on over there - including the abuse of the prisoners - but I seriously doubt that you want weapons hitting the US coast. I have to admit, I think that we're just a tad paranoid since 9/11 happened. We've got (what you might call) logic, but we're just a tad paranoid.

And the African situation? My only guess is that many world leaders don't want to get rid of poverty, but get rid of confliction. The military is one of the most funded government organizations in the world; on top of that, you can't do it all.

No offense mate, but you did not understand what my point was. I guess it was a lil' too complicated for ya. Here's my point, the war in Iraq was not about terrorism, or the stupid excuse "weapons of mass destruction", it was about getting the American economy up (more war = more soldiers, weapons, technology, etc.), saving our oil lines, and getting the American front in the Middle East stronger. I'll agree that I don't want weapons hitting our soil, but you can't just say that that was the ONLY reason we went there.And while I'm on it I'll also agree with you on the paranoid Americans, seeing as how most can't read through government lines.


On another note, I agree with your reply as to the Africa problem. The reason that Africa suffers so badly is because of the fact that America can't do it all. I mean look at our economy, it has been steadily dropping. The European Euro and the English Pound are BOTH worth more than the American Dollar. One reason of this is the large amount of national debt this nation is in and if that's what you're saying, then you're suggesting that the other countries need to get their butts in gear and at least TRY to help Africa(which I agree with).

[purebloodtexan]

Originally Posted by hafelife

OK i no this is a little off topic but the hole resone New Orleans got "wiped out" is because the levees where crack and the dum asses thought it wouldn't brake and there were people were telling to governor to fix it but noooooooooo he/she didn't ( i cant remember who the governor is ) if they fix the levees then they would not have been on there roof waiting for help im really happy that Bush didn't do any thing for a week it well teach them to be smarter and when you have some thing as imported as keeping 10 million (i don't no if that the real number ) gallons of water back and there cracked you need to fix them and im not even going to start on the pumps so srry for getting off topic but i just had to say it

Lemme clear that up a bit:

-Define "critical thinking".
-It wasn't just the governor: National commities as well as the state of Louisiana checked the levees, and said they were safe. I have to admit, they depended on the levees too much.
-Also, make sure there wasn't an attempted widespread evacuation. I'm not sure, but it's not all the government's fault.

[PunkNJunk]

Originally Posted by Admirable

Just a quick question guys, how many of you actually believe (excluding A2 Sauce) that we went into Iraq to help the Iraqis escape Saddam's dictatorship? If there are more than 50% of you that believe that, then you are extremely blind and unpenetrating. The only, and I mean ONLY reason we went into Iraq was to neutralize the threat of Saddam ruining our oil rigs. And before many of you object, let me say this, if America, land of the free, was so BIG on helping other countries with their lil' problems, why the flip aren't we down in Africa hmmmm? I dont see a lot of wealthy countries down there, because they're all and I mean ALL basically in a povertial stance. But that's another topic entirely. (Please pm me if you wish to continue this conversation).

the reason we are not in africa is
a) because people like you would accuse us of the same thing but only diamonds or something like that
b) it would start a war which is one of the things the public loves to bitch about the most.
c) you have to think about how that would look politically to other nations "oh look america is picking on a 3rd world country for their resources" (even if we werent)
d) we are giving support to alot of countries right now and we can only do so much at a time. especially when we're in the middle of a war.



and about the new orleans thing, you cannot say the government didnt try. maybe they could have possibly done more, but you cant say they didnt try. and some people could have gotten out but decided to stay at home instead. but of course there is the part of the population who couldnt make it out anyways.
and like i said before its just preposterous to say that bush didnt send people to blacks because he was racist.

[Admirable]

Originally Posted by PunkNJunk

the reason we are not in africa is
a) because people like you would accuse us of the same thing but only diamonds or something like that
b) it would start a war which is one of the things the public loves to bitch about the most.
c) you have to think about how that would look politically to other nations "oh look america is picking on a 3rd world country for their resources" (even if we werent)
d) we are giving support to alot of countries right now and we can only do so much at a time. especially when we're in the middle of a war.

*Rolls eyes heavenward*

No comment is needed for ridiculous ideas that don't make sense and are totally irrevelant. However, I never mentioned ANYTHING about bitching and moaning bout war. I'm all for war, if it's for the right purpose. My POINT was that the war in Iraq shoulda happened a lot earlier than it did, and the reason it didn't was because the government got their panies ina wad when Saddam threatened our oil lines. In other words, the entire proclamation for "Iraqi Freedom" is a buncha horsedung, seeing as how if our politicians had brains they woulda sent in troops long before they did.

And notice I did not, I repeat did NOT say we should help Africa right now. In case you didn't read my other post, America is in a huge crapload of debt, so we can barely support our own asses let alone help Africa in the way I'd like us too. I'd also like to remind you that this thread is for Critical Thinking, not random rantings on things you dont understand.

[Armadegon]

Originally Posted by hafelife

OK i no this is a little off topic but the hole resone New Orleans got "wiped out" is because the levees where crack and the dum asses thought it wouldn't brake and there were people were telling to governor to fix it but noooooooooo he/she didn't ( i cant remember who the governor is ) if they fix the levees then they would not have been on there roof waiting for help im really happy that Bush didn't do any thing for a week it well teach them to be smarter and when you have some thing as imported as keeping 10 million (i don't no if that the real number ) gallons of water back and there cracked you need to fix them and im not even going to start on the pumps so srry for getting off topic but i just had to say it

The blame lies with several people. I will now atempt to explain it clearly and in detail.

1. George H. W. Bush Lacked the foresight and leadership to anticipate and quickly deal with the impening disaster
2. FEMA cheif Miachel Brown. See number 1, Multiply by 5
3. The mayor of New Orleans. See number 1 divide by 2

Comprehende?

[hafelife]

Originally Posted by Armadegon

The blame lies with several people. I will now atempt to explain it clearly and in detail.

1. George H. W. Bush Lacked the foresight and leadership to anticipate and quickly deal with the impening disaster
2. FEMA cheif Miachel Brown. See number 1, Multiply by 5
3. The mayor of New Orleans. See number 1 divide by 2

Comprehende?

hahahaha can you feel the sarcasim

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by Armadegon

The blame lies with several people. I will now atempt to explain it clearly and in detail.

1. George H. W. Bush Lacked the foresight and leadership to anticipate and quickly deal with the impening disaster
2. FEMA cheif Miachel Brown. See number 1, Multiply by 5
3. The mayor of New Orleans. See number 1 divide by 2

By this math, the blame would be drastically reduced by Ray Nagin.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[HiSummoner]

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

I was opposed to the war in Iraq. I protested it. I knew the "WMDs" didn't exist, I knew Iraq had nothing to do with al-Qaeda. And now Iraq is a mess, and it's our fault and to pull out now would be devastating. I'm tired of giving a sh*t. Our President has the mentality of a toddler, and there's nothing we can do about it because a majority of Americans are dense as f*ck and re-elected him.

I'm sorry, but if still support this War and our President, you are stupid. If you want to dispute this, pm me.

Agreed.

[purebloodtexan]

Originally Posted by Admirable

*Rolls eyes heavenward*

No comment is needed for ridiculous ideas that don't make sense and are totally irrevelant. However, I never mentioned ANYTHING about bitching and moaning bout war. I'm all for war, if it's for the right purpose. My POINT was that the war in Iraq shoulda happened a lot earlier than it did, and the reason it didn't was because the government got their panies ina wad when Saddam threatened our oil lines. In other words, the entire proclamation for "Iraqi Freedom" is a buncha horsedung, seeing as how if our politicians had brains they woulda sent in troops long before they did.

And notice I did not, I repeat did NOT say we should help Africa right now. In case you didn't read my other post, America is in a huge crapload of debt, so we can barely support our own asses let alone help Africa in the way I'd like us too. I'd also like to remind you that this thread is for Critical Thinking, not random rantings on things you dont understand.

Well, when you mentioned Africa, I think he got the wrong idea. And his post wasn't much of a rant at all, I actually liked it. He may not have answered your question, but he certainly answered the questions of any others concerned about the African continent.

And the whole oil thing? I'm not trying to offend you but think about it: The Middle East is one of the primary sources of oil for the Western countries. Yes, they got their panties in a bunch, I'll admit that. Maybe they should've sat back and waited 'till Saddam supposedly "struck". Also, I'd have to see what kind of threats Saddam made (WMD's, oil, etc.) in order for us to invade, I might WikiPedia it.

[das1ngerplayer]

I think Bush should deploy more troops into Iraq. You may be thinking, no, that's just more troops to be killed. That's not true, the more troops we can have in Iraq the faster this war can be over. No one likes war, but when it comes down to it, war is unavoidable.

What would happen if we didn't fight the terrorists back? I'd bet almost anything the US would already have been bombed again. Going to war was the right decision to make in the first place and increasing troop numbers will help make Iraq a Democracy and destroy the terrorists that hate us. No one said this war was going to be easy, all of you who oppose it should have to live with it and realize that without those troops, we wouldn't be free.

[purebloodtexan]

Originally Posted by das1ngerplayer

I think Bush should deploy more troops into Iraq. You may be thinking, no, that's just more troops to be killed. That's not true, the more troops we can have in Iraq the faster this war can be over. No one likes war, but when it comes down to it, war is unavoidable.

What would happen if we didn't fight the terrorists back? I'd bet almost anything the US would already have been bombed again. Going to war was the right decision to make in the first place and increasing troop numbers will help make Iraq a Democracy and destroy the terrorists that hate us. No one said this war was going to be easy, all of you who oppose it should have to live with it and realize that without those troops, we wouldn't be free.

Well, like a few other members said, one of Bush's primary reasons for invading the ME is 'cause of the fact that USA has oil there, and didn't want his oil threatened; I didn't mind the check for WMD's, but the oil was another motive to invade.

Like I said earlier, Bush should've reared back a bit to see what would happen.

[das1ngerplayer]

The fact that we had oil in Iraq was not the main reason we invaded Iraq, it may have been a concern but certainly not the main reason. If we didn't even try to protect our oil and we let it it open to probelms, that would hurt our economy with high gas prices which would lead to other problems. As for WMD's, we did find some chemical weapons in Iraq and there is evidence that there were more powerful weapons in Iraq at one time.

[tsugomaru]

I heard this from my teacher, I have no real source for it.

On Wednesday, February 14th, Bush was interviewed by some group. One of the questions asked to him was, "What are your current thoughts on the situation on Iraq?" His reply was, "I wouldn't really know. It's hard to tell what the situation is while sitting in my nice, comfy, big room in the White House."

~Tsugomaru

[das1ngerplayer]

I heard this from my teacher, I have no real source for it.

On Wednesday, February 14th, Bush was interviewed by some group. One of the questions asked to him was, "What are your current thoughts on the situation on Iraq?" His reply was, "I wouldn't really know. It's hard to tell what the situation is while sitting in my nice, comfy, big room in the White House."

~Tsugomaru

I seriously doubt Bush said that. If he did that's just making fun of himself, doesn't make any sense. But it is hard for him to make decisions when practically every liberal wants Bush to loose the war in Iraq. It is possible he said that, I'm really to lazy to look it up, but if he did it's gonna hurt him.

[wickedawesomeful]

Originally Posted by das1ngerplayer

practically every democrat wants Bush to loose the war in Iraq.

What the hell are you talking about? They want him to pull out, not lose.

[das1ngerplayer]

What the hell are you talking about? They want him to pull out, not lose.

What I mean is that if you are truely a liberal and not just a democrat (that means you are as far left as it goes, pretty much anti-america) you want us to loose the war. But even so if we pull out we loose the war. Did any one not learn from Vietnam? We lost from stupid liberal protestors who wanted us out.

[wickedawesomeful]

Originally Posted by das1ngerplayer

What I mean is that if you are truely a liberal and not just a democrat (that means you are as far left as it goes, pretty much anti-america) you want us to loose the war. But even so if we pull out we loose the war. Did any one not learn from Vietnam? We lost from stupid liberal protestors who wanted us out.

I believe we need to pull out of Iraq. I am liberal. What I am not is anti-america. You're right, you can compare Iraq to Vietnam. Everyone was bitching about pulling out in Vietnam too, but when we did, it didn't fall apart as everyone had predicted. We need to get the **** out of Iraq, because there is honestly no reason for us to be there anymore. There really never was any reason for us to be there in the first place, but that's a different discussion.

[purebloodtexan]

Originally Posted by wickedawesomeful

I believe we need to pull out of Iraq. I am liberal. What I am not is anti-america. You're right, you can compare Iraq to Vietnam. Everyone was bitching about pulling out in Vietnam too, but when we did, it didn't fall apart as everyone had predicted. We need to get the **** out of Iraq, because there is honestly no reason for us to be there anymore. There really never was any reason for us to be there in the first place, but that's a different discussion.

Many of us (FYI, I'm a moderate = 3) are still afraid that the terrorists might try to hit US soil. Maybe that's what Bush is thinking as well.

[sherbtail]

Originally Posted by das1ngerplayer

What would happen if we didn't fight the terrorists back? I'd bet almost anything the US would already have been bombed again. Going to war was the right decision to make in the first place and increasing troop numbers will help make Iraq a Democracy and destroy the terrorists that hate us. No one said this war was going to be easy, all of you who oppose it should have to live with it and realize that without those troops, we wouldn't be free.

You sound so indoctrinated with all this anti-terror malarkey and your later post about liberals being anti-American.
I would say liberals actually stand more for what American values are...like liberty.

The war in Iraq will not destroy terrorism or "destroy all the terrorists who hate us". If anything it's fuelled more terrorism as young impressionable Muslims in countries like Iraq have seen what America has done and turned to radicalism.
Although terrorism can't be eradicated it can be reduced through diplomacy, education, peaceful things! And it can also be reduced through beefing up security, think of the billions that have been spent on the war in Iraq that could have been spent on US security.
I really don't believe terrorism is a big a problem as the US government makes it out to be, they exaggerate the problem to make people frightened, frightened people are generally easier to control