Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by korny

I don't think you've played anyone worth playing then if you haven't lost a game squeek.

That's my whole freakin' point!

You're all telling me the only way I can be declared "good" at this game is to play others who are "good".

How were these people declared "good" in the first place? Before the tournaments and crap existed. Let's just say tournaments don't exist. Nobody plays against random people. Just friends. How would one go about being called "good" at this game?

I want you to tell me because I'm not going to drive a hundred miles to play some random stranger in a game I beat five years ago.

@Relam: I understand the fun in challenging others. I don't have that fun in a tournament setting, but it is fun playing against friends. I'm not saying the game is no fun when you're playing in a tournament. I'm saying it would not be fun for me because I totally hate that. And since I hate that, there's no way I can go to them to "prove myself" worthy of being called "good" at a game I already completed.

The only option I have here is to play Brawl online. However, as I already said, I only play friends. I have no interest in "proving myself" to you people who accuse me of being terrible at a game that I 100% completed. I will play against the e-friends I made here at FFR and that is it.

[RoastedNoob]

Fight me, Squeek. Not to prove yourself, just for fun. I'm your friend.

..but either way, yeah, I played this game on random stages, 10 stock, items crazy, since release until about two years ago when I found Smashboards. Then a whole other level of the game opened up to me, and I enjoyed seeing how far I could take myself... But I know how damn fun it is for craziness, which is the main point of Smash, imo.

...but I think you'd have fun playing anyone Squeek. I enjoy playing people I four stock. I just love this damn game too much. lolol

[Aleste]

lol Why have the argument at all if you don't care squeek? i understand the rationale behind the question "How were these people declared 'good' in the first place?" but... when you see a good player, it's obvious that they're good lol. If tournaments didn't exist or the internet didn't exist in the case of brawl, then of course each individual that dominated the others within a group would be considered good. This goes for anything.. i mean.. it's one thing to say you're the best within a small group of friends and another to say you're one of the best in the WORLD. But all that is irrelevant... As Relambrien said.. and i COMPLETELY agree.. Games are meant to be fun, and people have different ways of having fun with any game. Not everyone can be the best (regardless of whether they are or not.) That being said.. Want to exchange friend codes anyone? lol i want people to play in February. :]

[Squeek]

All these videos you post? I can't tell if these people are good.

How can I tell if someone is good at a game if videos only show them performing one aspect of a game really well?

Are savants super-intelligent people? Smarter than everyone else?

If all you do is mano-a-mano fighting on one stage with one character, how can I even begin to judge your skill? I think to judge your skill, I'd need to see if you can handle random character and random stage selections multiple times. With and without items. Against humans and computers.

How else can I judge your skill? Honestly?

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by Squeek

All these videos you post? I can't tell if these people are good.

How can I tell if someone is good at a game if videos only show them performing one aspect of a game really well?

Are savants super-intelligent people? Smarter than everyone else?

If all you do is mano-a-mano fighting on one stage with one character, how can I even begin to judge your skill? I think to judge your skill, I'd need to see if you can handle random character and random stage selections multiple times. With and without items. Against humans and computers.

How else can I judge your skill? Honestly?

This falls into my caution earlier about differing definitions of "skill." Be careful, what you consider "skill" isn't necessarily considered "skill" by another person.

To elaborate, here's what I mean. By "skill" you are referring to overall proficiency of every aspect of the game, whereas others may consider some parts of the game irrelevant to player skill, or believe that people who are equally good at different aspects are equally skilled.

It is my personal belief that someone who is good at mono-a-mono fighting with no items (basically, a decent tournament-goer) inherently is good at mono-a-mono fighting with items, and also FFA or teams. Perhaps not -as- good (yet reasonably close), but since most aspects apply regardless of gametype, practicing one improves your proficiency in another.

EDIT: As an example of what my earlier post meant, listen to this. I just went to the Brawl forum on Smashboards, and the amount of flaming and arguing from both sides of the wavedashing topic is astounding. Like I said, the relationship between casual and tournament Smash players is probably the worst I've ever seen, in any game, ever. Oh, and the reason there's such an uproar is because, due to the Momentum Air Dodge, wavedashing in its Melee form has been eliminated from Brawl. Basically, you can't direct your air dodge anymore; your momentum carries you while you dodge.

But there has been a new technique discovered, the "Ink Drop." If you dash longer than your initial dash and tap backward, your character sort of falls over (in the initial direction of travel). However, this fall can be canceled by grabbing or attacking, meaning it's essentially a Dash Pivot--you can do anything you want out of a dash this way, without having to dash cancel by tapping down. Whether or not this will be changed by Brawl's release is yet to be seen, though.

[RoastedNoob]

Where'd you get the airdodge information?

EDIT: Nevermind, I had no idea E for All was already here.

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by Relambrien

This falls into my caution earlier about differing definitions of "skill." Be careful, what you consider "skill" isn't necessarily considered "skill" by another person.

To elaborate, here's what I mean. By "skill" you are referring to overall proficiency of every aspect of the game, whereas others may consider some parts of the game irrelevant to player skill, or believe that people who are equally good at different aspects are equally skilled.

It is my personal belief that someone who is good at mono-a-mono fighting with no items (basically, a decent tournament-goer) inherently is good at mono-a-mono fighting with items, and also FFA or teams. Perhaps not -as- good (yet reasonably close), but since most aspects apply regardless of gametype, practicing one improves your proficiency in another.

EDIT: As an example of what my earlier post meant, listen to this. I just went to the Brawl forum on Smashboards, and the amount of flaming and arguing from both sides of the wavedashing topic is astounding. Like I said, the relationship between casual and tournament Smash players is probably the worst I've ever seen, in any game, ever. Oh, and the reason there's such an uproar is because, due to the Momentum Air Dodge, wavedashing in its Melee form has been eliminated from Brawl. Basically, you can't direct your air dodge anymore; your momentum carries you while you dodge.

But there has been a new technique discovered, the "Ink Drop." If you dash longer than your initial dash and tap backward, your character sort of falls over (in the initial direction of travel). However, this fall can be canceled by grabbing or attacking, meaning it's essentially a Dash Pivot--you can do anything you want out of a dash this way, without having to dash cancel by tapping down. Whether or not this will be changed by Brawl's release is yet to be seen, though.

cant control dodge? that sucks

[Squeek]

Well then... if you're going to say someone is the best at something, define it properly. There are so many aspects of life. If someone is really good at running, you don't say they're the best human, the best soccer player, the best quarterback. You say they're really good at running.

MLG players are good at one-on-one fighting. I can't say that's all they're good at, but seeing as that's all they're willing to share, I have no frame of reference to say otherwise.

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by Squeek

MLG players are good at one-on-one fighting. I can't say that's all they're good at, but seeing as that's all they're willing to share, I have no frame of reference to say otherwise.

You may not have any frame of reference or evidence, but logic can create a reasonable expectation of performance when you look at what two different things have in common and compare those to the person's skill in one of them. In this case, logic dictates that MLG players do indeed excel in all types of play due to the similarities between them. Granted this is only a guess, but I'm willing to venture it's a very accurate guess.

[jeumaitre]

I cant wait til i get it. Im willing to play against anyone who challenges me. =)

[RoastedNoob]

Also, the people playing at MLG usually have the want and dedication to be/get better than other players. So, that can lead to them getting better at a new game quickly, or anything really. I know I definitely had an increase of skill with any fighter game after I took smash to the next level.

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by Relambrien

You may not have any frame of reference or evidence, but logic can create a reasonable expectation of performance when you look at what two different things have in common and compare those to the person's skill in one of them. In this case, logic dictates that MLG players do indeed excel in all types of play due to the similarities between them. Granted this is only a guess, but I'm willing to venture it's a very accurate guess.

I wish I could apply that logic, but I've seen too many dramas with Savants in them.

You might be able to tell me what day of the week February 17th, 1872 was, but you can't do basic Algebra. The same rules apply here.

I'll out and say it right here. I'm a terrible non-item player. If items are turned off, I'd probably lose to anyone with decent experience with the game. Simple as that.

And yet, give me items and I am unstoppable.

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by Squeek

I wish I could apply that logic, but I've seen too many dramas with Savants in them.

You might be able to tell me what day of the week February 17th, 1872 was, but you can't do basic Algebra. The same rules apply here.

I'll out and say it right here. I'm a terrible non-item player. If items are turned off, I'd probably lose to anyone with decent experience with the game. Simple as that.

And yet, give me items and I am unstoppable.

Why arent you good without items? So your not good with the characters and their abilities?

[Squeek]

I'm good enough without items to beat the game. It's just that I prefer items so I can keep the fight ranged and use feints.

When playing a dungeon-type game with Warriors, Wizards, Archers, etc., do you usually play the Warrior for melee or the Archer / Mage for range? I'm usually a ranged character. It's just how I play games.

When I play shooters, I tend to take my time because I don't want to die. I don't just run in with the rifle and try to kill everything (unless the game calls for that, like Halo's single player). I'm always hiding behind walls and watching for patterns to emerge.

It's just my style. Remove items and you remove my style.

[zidart]

Originally Posted by l2awr

Why arent you good without items? So your not good with the characters and their abilities?

the combo of a character abilities and items is what makes the game more active , you know?

sheik + bunny hood = awesome
marrio Vs enemy pokeball = awesome

[RoastedNoob]

Originally Posted by Squeek

I'm always hiding behind walls and watching for patterns to emerge.

That's a huge part of tournament smash. >.>

Except you hide behind shffl'd aerial spam and look for the patterns. Then make your move when you know what your opponent is about to do.

If that's really how you play, you should have no problem without items. Be Peach if you really need the items. lolol

[Squeek]

Except that in your play, you're always directly next to your opponent. Unless, of course, one of you hits the other very far away. The goal in your style of play is no matter what, approach your opponent. The goal in my style of play is no matter what, don't run in without a plan and/or a feint.

[RoastedNoob]

That's mine, too. I just sit at my starting position and wait for them to come to me. Then when they try to attack, my aerial spam cancels out their attack, and they get the hit... or if they are being more patient then me, I'll have to start feinting or just get close without getting too close to get them a little nervous. I use Marth mainly, btw. It's all about the reading their moves, feints, and staying unpredictable.

Some people do get right up next to you and won't back the hell off, and you just gotta deal and figure out how to beat that play style. One of the funnest parts about the tournaments is trying to figure certain things out, like their movement patterns, while keeping yourself unhit and not doing the same thing over again.

[tsugomaru]

What?!~

I hope you don't run in circles around Hyrule Temple because anyone who does that is annoying.

~Tsugomaru

[RoastedNoob]

Are you talking to me? I don't play Hyrule unless it's free for all, and you can't really do the circle then. lol

I don't do any "cheap" tactics, like kite and spam projectiles or anything.