TWG Turbo XXIIIIIIII 10 AM/10 PM

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

I'm OK. I think this is going to be the first day of the game that I actually enjoy. How about you?

Glad to hear it. Yesterday seemed rough with how hard on yourself you were being. Any idea what brought that all on?

I'm good, thanks for asking. Just glad my spark wasn't leading me in the wrong direction

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

p sure its charu

not sure I can even lynch star for that eod
xel /probably/ isn't going to vote for his partner like that
kinda don't think that fg puts her partner in her scumreads like she put shado in and it really, really doesn't feel like town was just winning THAT hard yesterday

Votes for wolves deserve scrutiny. I can think of more games off the top of my head (the jTWG where I was cop and should have claimed, the orb game with Charu/Gradiant/DBP, the game where raeko/roundbox/Ben were wolves) where wolves did that rather than risk being on the wrong side of history.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Glad to hear it. Yesterday seemed rough with how hard on yourself you were being. Any idea what brought that all on?

I'm good, thanks for asking. Just glad my spark wasn't leading me in the wrong direction

I did not see until after the day ended that the lightning storm bit was a joke. Which was funny, and also good because it means there was no dangerous weather.

TWG is hard. I could go on and on about why. I think the more I play, the more examples I have of myself being wrong - defending wolves and failing to reevaluate, misplaying as a blue, hanging blues while they are afk, etc. And in response to that, I have become my own worst enemy: I make myself miserable with worrying about how not to be wrong.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

TWG is hard. I could go on and on about why. I think the more I play, the more examples I have of myself being wrong - defending wolves and failing to reevaluate, misplaying as a blue, hanging blues while they are afk, etc. And in response to that, I have become my own worst enemy: I make myself miserable with worrying about how not to be wrong.

Don't be too hard on yourself. If there was even a single player who didn't make mistakes as town, wolves would never win.
Yesterday was unlike anything I've seen from you before, even in games I consider much harder to read than this one. That's why I had to ask for your take on your own mental space. Now this should probably a post game thing, but for what it's worth, I think the consensus is that you've by and large lived up to your name as a shining star leading town. That's definitely my thought as well. So don't beat yourself up over a couple mistakes here and there, it'll only cloud you up more

[Charu]

...Y'know, if thesunfan is wolf, this lead up actually makes absolute sense.

Something just clicked in my head after I read star's post. I don't know if he actually read Poptart as a hider if he is wolfing, but I do know that thesunfan is one of those folks who likes to put meta plays into the forefront when he's wolfing.

I already mentioned in my last reads that thesunfan is reminding me of a moment back at Mafia Universe during a hydra. I think he was hydraing on AA, but it's been such a long time that I don't really recall what the beef was ever about. I just know it had to do something with a meta read or something.

But star just brought up a very good series of posts that showcase something that thesunfan NEVER EVER does as a wolf. He will NEVER BUS. No matter the circumstances.

...It's odd, he's using meta and now I'm using a meta read, but I promise you that he has stated this as a fact in the many times he's played this game. He simply doesn't bus, it's not in his playstyle and he will tell you this 100% of the time.

The fact he wasn't going all in on his own meta read against me about me randomly killing someone for the sake of randomness makes me think he hit a dead end with that call out.

Oh my god...

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by Charu

...Y'know, if thesunfan is wolf, this lead up actually makes absolute sense.

Something just clicked in my head after I read star's post. I don't know if he actually read Poptart as a hider if he is wolfing, but I do know that thesunfan is one of those folks who likes to put meta plays into the forefront when he's wolfing.

I already mentioned in my last reads that thesunfan is reminding me of a moment back at Mafia Universe during a hydra. I think he was hydraing on AA, but it's been such a long time that I don't really recall what the beef was ever about. I just know it had to do something with a meta read or something.

But star just brought up a very good series of posts that showcase something that thesunfan NEVER EVER does as a wolf. He will NEVER BUS. No matter the circumstances.

...It's odd, he's using meta and now I'm using a meta read, but I promise you that he has stated this as a fact in the many times he's played this game. He simply doesn't bus, it's not in his playstyle and he will tell you this 100% of the time.

The fact he wasn't going all in on his own meta read against me about me randomly killing someone for the sake of randomness makes me think he hit a dead end with that call out.

Oh my god...

You just reminded me of something else I was thinking about last night. I see the fact that sun fan is clearly most familiar with Subaru's meta from the way he gave reads on Subaru, as possibly connected to him being able to most easily figure out he could be the hider.

[ShadoWolfe]

Part of me wants yell out in joy that you guys are finally seeing what I've been saying, but a larger part is not liking the sudden unity on sunfan in a phase I think its crucial to reassess in.

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Part of me wants yell out in joy that you guys are finally seeing what I've been saying, but a larger part is not liking the sudden unity on sunfan in a phase I think its crucial to reassess in.

Oh I'm reassessing everything, this is just my starting place.

[Charu]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Part of me wants yell out in joy that you guys are finally seeing what I've been saying, but a larger part is not liking the sudden unity on sunfan in a phase I think its crucial to reassess in.

I mean, I think for me, it's either me or him at the moment. What other lynch candidates are you willing to explore at this juncture?

Xel voted for Funny, and well... Xel probably could bus, but he didn't look all that broken up about voting his own wolf. Granted he hasn't really given DEEP thoughts on the game as a whole, but the posting style he's given thus far has been pretty loose if he were to be wolfing.

I mean, a theory could be had where Xel's and Funny's game plan was just the usual "let town implode" thing because that's been working awfully a lot recently.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Charu

I mean, I think for me, it's either me or him at the moment. What other lynch candidates are you willing to explore at this juncture?



Xel voted for Funny, and well... Xel probably could bus, but he didn't look all that broken up about voting his own wolf. Granted he hasn't really given DEEP thoughts on the game as a whole, but the posting style he's given thus far has been pretty loose if he were to be wolfing.



I mean, a theory could be had where Xel's and Funny's game plan was just the usual "let town implode" thing because that's been working awfully a lot recently.

None really, I just wanted a zoomed out version of your thoughts after the night kill 'cause I already had enough mental reasons on sunfan that reading you discover them wasn't helping me read you much

On that note, thanks for the Xel take

[star-crossed]

Has anyone actually seen Xel be a wolf or have any insight into how he might approach it (that hasn't been mentioned already)?

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Has anyone actually seen Xel be a wolf or have any insight into how he might approach it (that hasn't been mentioned already)?

Yeah. In my reads list yesterday I mentioned volume and clarity because as a wolf I've seen him shit post fine up until push comes to shove and facade cracks big time. He's like the opposite of cracking here. You see people using the word "pure" in their town reads of him this game because as a wolf he def isn't.
I wanted to test that this morning cause he was quieter last phase than he was in the first, and his response to me affirmed my townread.

[Charu]

Man, if the wolf isn't thesunfan, then I don't see how we can win guys.

I'm assuming, if thesunfan is not a wolf, then star will die, and it'll be a F3 between me, Shadow, and Xel. There's no actual way for me to defend against this unless I dig really deep into... one of the two that have ample amounts of stuff I can probably turn about and actually try hard.

Likewise, I'm assuming if some of you are thinking I'm a wolf, but then find out I'm not after the flip, you'll be stuck with thesunfan who now doesn't look too good either with star STILL probably dying with the same two folks at F3.

I don't know, friends.

[the sun fan]

So, here's what I have to say. I think that, if I die, its not the greatest tragedy that the world has ever known. I'm not going to spend hours today, or in f3 if I'm there, defending myself and worrying about town winning.

I'm going to try of course.

I think that the game is probably simple enough to where you can just kill me and charu in any order and win.

I was playing video mafia last night and I was town. I was getting pushed on for (imo) mostly really bad reasoning, and I fought for an hour or so against my death, only to die and for town to get there in the end anyways. People were arguing that I HAD to die for reasons x, y and z (one of them turned out to be that I voted on a mafia, which is funny in hindsight) Obviously, its still good to try, but I do worry that my own words can get in the way of progress sometimes.

Anyways

I have been wrong on fg before. I think, if you look back, I had progression on her being scummy at like
exactly the same time that inD did yesterday. I was honestly getting ready to vote her when I saw two people had done it already. Further, I was going to vote her at EOD and xel beat me to it.

I know what that sounds like, but it is true. Believe me or don't.

But I'll talk about where I think I went wrong on fg this game. T-Force might've hit the nail on the head, and maybe its easier (easIER and not EASY) for her to disguise herself when she is pushing on T-Force for meme reasons, but I still feel like I will usually find her. She had a good entrance in my opinion, and when she quoted one of my posts calling me town in all caps, I was pretty content with calling her town. When she and I interacted too, she felt in line with how she talks to me when she's town. Going back in time, I think that I would end up being right on fg on d1 a good bit above rand%, and I've been dead-ass wrong before on her (which T-Force mentioned even though I've really suppressed that game from my memory), I'm just USUALLY right.

Once the votes came on her last EOD and she wasn't (pleading isn't the right word but I don't really have a better one) with her voters, I felt a lot better about voting her and with the wagon on her. I'd also said that it felt like wolves might've been getting buried by the postcount or struggling to voice their opinions or something, and I kind of still feel like that's it.

Charu has (perhaps a bit less accurately than he realizes) said that I will never bus. I agree rather heavily with that, but if you look at the second EOD (don't look at that first one because it looks bad for me), I wasn't defending her. If I'm a wolf, I know that I probably need her alive at parity, otherwise its gonna be pretty tough for me moving forward. As you can probably tell, I haven't had the fight in me this game. I think that'd be kind of silly for me as a wolf, and I know its a bit sillier solely because I really was like
about to vote for fg and then xel did it

Looking at yesterday, I didn't really expect xel to vote for fg, and I don't think people would've super expected me to do it either, so I think wolves might've underestimated how likely it would be for fg to get lynched there over shado/charu (because at least one of them is always town). I think that this looks bad for Charu but w/e

I also don't really have a backup lynch at the moment. Its probably impossible for me to get off of lynching Charu. If we do go to final 3, even if the Werewolf gods smite star-crossed today or something for the lynch, I will reevaluate everyone or w/e politician phrase you know I have to say here when my back is against the wall.

I'm gonna try to have fun today in the meantime because I've enjoyed letting the game go, and not enjoyed trying to change the current (the star-crossed words per post analysis is the least I've enjoyed werewolf in a while).

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

So, here's what I have to say. I think that, if I die, its not the greatest tragedy that the world has ever known. I'm not going to spend hours today, or in f3 if I'm there, defending myself and worrying about town winning.

I'm going to try of course.

I think that the game is probably simple enough to where you can just kill me and charu in any order and win.

I was playing video mafia last night and I was town. I was getting pushed on for (imo) mostly really bad reasoning, and I fought for an hour or so against my death, only to die and for town to get there in the end anyways. People were arguing that I HAD to die for reasons x, y and z (one of them turned out to be that I voted on a mafia, which is funny in hindsight) Obviously, its still good to try, but I do worry that my own words can get in the way of progress sometimes.

Anyways

I have been wrong on fg before. I think, if you look back, I had progression on her being scummy at like
exactly the same time that inD did yesterday. I was honestly getting ready to vote her when I saw two people had done it already. Further, I was going to vote her at EOD and xel beat me to it.

I know what that sounds like, but it is true. Believe me or don't.

But I'll talk about where I think I went wrong on fg this game. T-Force might've hit the nail on the head, and maybe its easier (easIER and not EASY) for her to disguise herself when she is pushing on T-Force for meme reasons, but I still feel like I will usually find her. She had a good entrance in my opinion, and when she quoted one of my posts calling me town in all caps, I was pretty content with calling her town. When she and I interacted too, she felt in line with how she talks to me when she's town. Going back in time, I think that I would end up being right on fg on d1 a good bit above rand%, and I've been dead-ass wrong before on her (which T-Force mentioned even though I've really suppressed that game from my memory), I'm just USUALLY right.

Once the votes came on her last EOD and she wasn't (pleading isn't the right word but I don't really have a better one) with her voters, I felt a lot better about voting her and with the wagon on her. I'd also said that it felt like wolves might've been getting buried by the postcount or struggling to voice their opinions or something, and I kind of still feel like that's it.

Charu has (perhaps a bit less accurately than he realizes) said that I will never bus. I agree rather heavily with that, but if you look at the second EOD (don't look at that first one because it looks bad for me), I wasn't defending her. If I'm a wolf, I know that I probably need her alive at parity, otherwise its gonna be pretty tough for me moving forward. As you can probably tell, I haven't had the fight in me this game. I think that'd be kind of silly for me as a wolf, and I know its a bit sillier solely because I really was like
about to vote for fg and then xel did it

Looking at yesterday, I didn't really expect xel to vote for fg, and I don't think people would've super expected me to do it either, so I think wolves might've underestimated how likely it would be for fg to get lynched there over shado/charu (because at least one of them is always town). I think that this looks bad for Charu but w/e

I also don't really have a backup lynch at the moment. Its probably impossible for me to get off of lynching Charu. If we do go to final 3, even if the Werewolf gods smite star-crossed today or something for the lynch, I will reevaluate everyone or w/e politician phrase you know I have to say here when my back is against the wall.

I'm gonna try to have fun today in the meantime because I've enjoyed letting the game go, and not enjoyed trying to change the current (the star-crossed words per post analysis is the least I've enjoyed werewolf in a while).

Assume for a moment I'm town. I'm surprised you're still doubting given that, if I were a wolf, my lynch on FG D0 would've left me playing against literally the entire list of town detectives, but just assume.

Let's also assume you're town.

Do you see Star ever being a wolf here? How about Xel?

Those aren't rhetorical lol I'd like you to actually consider that a world where it's town!you, star, Xel, and Charu in an F4 with NoLynch: Off.

What percentage of the time do you not vote Charu, and in that case who do you vote for and why?

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Assume for a moment I'm town. I'm surprised you're still doubting given that, if I were a wolf, my lynch on FG D0 would've left me playing against literally the entire list of town detectives, but just assume.

Let's also assume you're town.

Do you see Star ever being a wolf here? How about Xel?

Those aren't rhetorical lol I'd like you to actually consider that a world where it's town!you, star, Xel, and Charu in an F4 with NoLynch: Off.

What percentage of the time do you not vote Charu, and in that case who do you vote for and why?

I'm not really doubting that you're town, I think that you, star and xel all look pretty town. I wouldn't really know what to do tomorrow if I get there, and I would reevaluate, like I said.

I don't ever see star being a wolf here, I think what I said earlier in the game was right; I don't think she was ever a beacon of towniness that she normally is in the early-game (at least I didn't see it), but with her posts at last eod, while voting fg with spanish question marks, I don't think its possible for her to be a wolf.

your progression on fg on d0 looks good (hadn't gone back and reread but I read what star posted) and fg was also pushing you as well in a non-partnery way imo (she tends to not push on her partners)

xel is, I guess, the remainder, but since I haven't used the word vintage today, I'll use it here. The way he reacted to people throwing out the idea of lynching him on d0 is the way that I associate town!xel with reacting. I could probably write 500 words on how he /could/ be a wolf, I just don't really think that it would be productive because its just charu.

since we can't sleep in this bizarro f4 world you've given, I probably just vote for Charu, throw as many words at him while he and I are brought to the scaffold, and see who wins the thunderdome. numbers are arbitrary, but its a large percentage of the time that I vote Charu there, and it would take something pretty revolutionary to change my mind

[Charu]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

its just charu.

My beak is bigger than yours

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by Charu

My beak is bigger than yours

I think you said something to the contrary a few games ago, but w/e
you at least didn't flaunt

[the sun fan]

that d0 progression on fg from shado looks pretty good in hindsight

[the sun fan]

fuck, alright
well now I just deserve whatever happens to me

[Charu]

What?

I'm saying beak, BEAK!

Not the other thing I think you're referring to!