fuck Georgia

[rayword45]

Re: fuck Georgia

hoo boy this bouta become critical thinking thread rq can we just go back to saying fuck Georgia

[inDheart]

Re: fuck Georgia

fuck that (though it not being in CT is making me fine with being snippy)

but also fuck georgia

[DaBackpack]

Re: fuck Georgia

it seems like the label "alive" is ill-equipped to deal with this kind of discussion

unborn fetuses are "alive" in the sense that blood cells and tissue are "alive". When we say a PERSON is "alive" we are referring to a different definition of "alive" -- this is linguistic confusion. A better fighting ground is about "personhood"

The huge problem with the bill is that the fetus is granted full legal protection with "personhood" after only 6 weeks. Personhood is a philosophical/psychological label more than a scientific one so the actual definition isn't precise. But most of us can agree that 6 weeks is way too early.

fuck georgia

[qrrbrbirbel]

Re: fuck Georgia

Fuck Georgia

[rayword45]

Re: fuck Georgia

it seems like the label "alive" is ill-equipped to deal with this kind of discussion

unborn fetuses are "alive" in the sense that blood cells and tissue are "alive". When we say a PERSON is "alive" we are referring to a different definition of "alive" -- this is linguistic confusion. A better fighting ground is about "personhood"

The huge problem with the bill is that the fetus is granted full legal protection with "personhood" after only 6 weeks. Personhood is a philosophical/psychological label more than a scientific one so the actual definition isn't precise. But most of us can agree that 6 weeks is way too early.

fuck georgia

til the abortion debate is all about semantics

[mellon_collie]

Re: fuck Georgia

The huge problem with the bill is that the fetus is granted full legal protection with "personhood" after only 6 weeks. Personhood is a philosophical/psychological label more than a scientific one so the actual definition isn't precise. But most of us can agree that 6 weeks is way too early.

not to even mention many women don't even know they are pregnant at 6 weeks. missing a single period can be common for some women. I'd assume most people don't find out until AT LEAST 3-4 weeks if not later.

[DaBackpack]

Re: fuck Georgia

til the abortion debate is all about semantics

it's not, it's rooted in religious bigotry and a desire for control over women

the conservatives just are exploiting linguistic confusion to rationalize their inane beliefs

[flashflash account]

Re: fuck Georgia

it's not, it's rooted in religious bigotry and a desire for control over women

the conservatives just are exploiting linguistic confusion to rationalize their inane beliefs

right

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: fuck Georgia

The huge problem with the bill is that the fetus is granted full legal protection with "personhood" after only 6 weeks. Personhood is a philosophical/psychological label more than a scientific one so the actual definition isn't precise. But most of us can agree that 6 weeks is way too early.

What the bill doesn't prevent:
- Miscarriages
- Vassholes (fourth degree tears, yuck!)
- Other severe damage. I'd suggest not looking up pictures of uterine prolapse if you don't want to vomit.
- Cesarean sections. The thought of a C-section makes me want to throw up.
- Death (happens a surprising number of times in childbirth)
- Unsafe abortion ("back-alley" abortions)
- Financial stress
- Multiple pregnancies, which have a higher rate of fetal death
- Fetal abnormalities. Anencephaly is lethal for the fetus and is just one of many.

So where's the plan to make sure women get the proper prenatal care if they are required to go through a full pregnancy? And where does this bill help the fetus again?

[devonin]

Re: fuck Georgia

I think this is actually a pretty interesting point. Anyone claiming to be "pro-life" better be a vegan if they don't want to be considered a hypocrite by me

You don't even need to go remotely that far to find hypocrites in the pro-life movement. How about we even grant that they refer only to human life. How many of them are pro-life of poor people, or immigrants, or children in the foster care system or the homeless?

[DaBackpack]

Re: fuck Georgia

What the bill doesn't prevent:
- Miscarriages
- Vassholes (fourth degree tears, yuck!)
- Other severe damage. I'd suggest not looking up pictures of uterine prolapse if you don't want to vomit.
- Cesarean sections. The thought of a C-section makes me want to throw up.
- Death (happens a surprising number of times in childbirth)
- Unsafe abortion ("back-alley" abortions)
- Financial stress
- Multiple pregnancies, which have a higher rate of fetal death
- Fetal abnormalities. Anencephaly is lethal for the fetus and is just one of many.

So where's the plan to make sure women get the proper prenatal care if they are required to go through a full pregnancy? And where does this bill help the fetus again?

It doesn't and it betrays the real hypocrisy of these pushes. Pro-life is such a misnomer. Hell, for the reasons you stated above, "pro-birth" isn't even accurate.

They are anti-abortion and that's it.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: fuck Georgia

You don't even need to go remotely that far to find hypocrites in the pro-life movement. How about we even grant that they refer only to human life. How many of them are pro-life of poor people, or immigrants, or children in the foster care system or the homeless?

The counter-argument used in that case is that the scope of the argument is to abortion. Really, the whole courtroom narrative with the pro-choice/pro-life labeling is ridiculous. It's basically "you're an enemy and I need to demonize you" -- which is why the pro-life side is so obsessed with wanting to use terms like pro-death, baby killers, murderers, etc.

Disproportionate focus is spent on trying to pass legislation to ban abortion without keeping the following in mind:

What the bill doesn't prevent:
- Miscarriages
- Vassholes (fourth degree tears, yuck!)
- Other severe damage. I'd suggest not looking up pictures of uterine prolapse if you don't want to vomit.
- Cesarean sections. The thought of a C-section makes me want to throw up.
- Death (happens a surprising number of times in childbirth)
- Unsafe abortion ("back-alley" abortions)
- Financial stress
- Multiple pregnancies, which have a higher rate of fetal death
- Fetal abnormalities. Anencephaly is lethal for the fetus and is just one of many.

So where's the plan to make sure women get the proper prenatal care if they are required to go through a full pregnancy? And where does this bill help the fetus again?

The woman still has to go through a full pregnancy which can result in many complications, and there are so many different scenarios where an abortion is considered that trying to generalize it in a courtroom instead of thinking of technological innovation (e.g. artificial incubator) is so fundamentally broken.

[devonin]

Re: fuck Georgia

Disproportionate focus is spent on trying to pass legislation to ban abortion without keeping the following in mind

That...that's the point though. They don't actually care about any of the things you just listed, at all.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: fuck Georgia

On another note: I try to separate the pro-life concept from the pro-life movement.

If the narrative switched over to medical innovation, there could be creative solutions like an artificial incubator. It's interesting because:
- the woman can still end the pregnancy (I guess it could be a "transfer abortion" or something)
- the embryo (or fetus, depending on the stage of the pregnancy) is transferred to the incubator

This would allow women who might have physical problems to use said technology to assist in the development of the fetus, and not have to worry about issues like tearing, death, etc.

Sure, that may be a pipe dream, but it's a good idea to at least try for a while -- it'll also show the importance of having a safe and legal procedure.

[DaBackpack]

Re: fuck Georgia

99% of people don't think like that. Of course it would be a lot better if there was artificial incubation, the issue has and always will be about female autonomy.