Morality. - Page 3

**devonin** · 01-4-2009, 11:35 AM

Yes...this is why I'm saying that free will and omniscience don't go together...

Afrobean · 01-4-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin

Yes...this is why I'm saying that free will and omniscience don't go together...

yeah but if he's got all powers

then one of his powers is inaction

He can choose to do nothing. In choosing to do nothing, he allows free will to emerge.

**devonin** · 01-4-2009, 11:55 AM

All powers is omnipotence, not omniscience.

Omnipotence is all on its own a contradiction in terms, and it absolutely can't go together with omniscience, let alone omniscience and human free will.

**dore** · 01-4-2009, 04:10 PM

If we truly have free will, then we could do something completely random and unpredictable. If God did not know this beforehand (without looking ahead in time) then he is not truly omniscient. He could look ahead to the future and make inferences of the effect based on the cause but that's not omniscience, that's critical analysis.

**devonin** · 01-4-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

then we could do something completely random and unpredictable

Not necessarily. Free choice doesn't have to mean free choice among a full infinte variety of choices. I can't choose to fly, or to grow a third arm, we're still restricted by the laws of causality and science.

Free will and predictability aren't incompatible, knowing someone well enough I can make pretty ready predictions with a high degree of success, as to what action they will take given a certain set of circumstances. But yes, they -could- make a conscious choice to defy expectations and do something unpredictable.

**dore** · 01-4-2009, 08:09 PM

Yeah I just meant something completely out of character, for example, me grabbing a knife right now and stabbing my mom. I would obviously never do that if you knew me, yet I still have the ability to decide to do that at any moment.

I wasn't exactly clear with my syntax but I meant something achievable but out-of-character and unexpected.

Seefu Sefirosu · 01-5-2009, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dore

Yeah I just meant something completely out of character, for example, me grabbing a knife right now and stabbing my mom. I would obviously never do that if you knew me, yet I still have the ability to decide to do that at any moment.

I wasn't exactly clear with my syntax but I meant something achievable but out-of-character and unexpected.

Oh, but watch out, -God- is watching!

He already apparently knows whether or not you'll do that, and then whether or not, if you end up doing it, you pray for forgiveness, and mean it, and get forgiven.

Etc.

This would be a prime example of why Intelligent Design is not a logical theory.

EDIT: Not the point of the topic, though, sorry. I keep wanting to engage in religious discussion. Back on point...

Assuming Intelligent Design is valid (just for this post), God is a pretty immoral dude, then. He know who's gonna kill who, knew Hitler was gonna go after some Jews, etc., and he jsut let it play out. It's like putting all of the kids in the sandbox and just walking away for eternity until you feel like coming back and doing something.

**devonin** · 01-5-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

God is a pretty immoral dude, then. He know who's gonna kill who, knew Hitler was gonna go after some Jews, etc., and he jsut let it play out.

God set up the list of rules, said "Here they are, follow them and you go to heaven, don't follow them and you don't. Go."

If the purpose of existance is a TEST, then how is it immoral to allow the test to follow through? What would be immoral would be if God promised us to let us use our free will and then constantly meddled and modified and interfered.

**dore** · 01-5-2009, 02:25 PM

Seefu, way to completely ignore the point of every post on this page.

jimcwx · 01-5-2009, 03:01 PM

Hmm... morality... i don't think there's such thing. i believe the world is just a whole lot of emptiness, there are only our instinctive, constant, unceasing struggle for existance. Only power, strength and survival matter. Might is right;eat or be eaten.

**devonin** · 01-5-2009, 08:04 PM

So you are 100% okay, if I can manage to pull it off, with my beating you half to death, imprisoning you and making you toil to my benefit?

01-4-2009, 11:35 AM	#41
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: Morality. Yes...this is why I'm saying that free will and omniscience don't go together...

01-4-2009, 11:55 AM	#43
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: Morality. All powers is omnipotence, not omniscience. Omnipotence is all on its own a contradiction in terms, and it absolutely can't go together with omniscience, let alone omniscience and human free will.

01-4-2009, 04:10 PM	#44
dore caveman pornstar Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ridin on a unicorn Age: 33 Posts: 6,317	Re: Morality. If we truly have free will, then we could do something completely random and unpredictable. If God did not know this beforehand (without looking ahead in time) then he is not truly omniscient. He could look ahead to the future and make inferences of the effect based on the cause but that's not omniscience, that's critical analysis. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREnpHco9mw

01-4-2009, 08:09 PM	#46
dore caveman pornstar Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ridin on a unicorn Age: 33 Posts: 6,317	Re: Morality. Yeah I just meant something completely out of character, for example, me grabbing a knife right now and stabbing my mom. I would obviously never do that if you knew me, yet I still have the ability to decide to do that at any moment. I wasn't exactly clear with my syntax but I meant something achievable but out-of-character and unexpected. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREnpHco9mw

01-5-2009, 02:25 PM	#49
dore caveman pornstar Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ridin on a unicorn Age: 33 Posts: 6,317	Re: Morality. Seefu, way to completely ignore the point of every post on this page. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREnpHco9mw

01-5-2009, 03:01 PM	#50
jimcwx FFR Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: canada, burlington Age: 35 Posts: 5	Re: Morality. Hmm... morality... i don't think there's such thing. i believe the world is just a whole lot of emptiness, there are only our instinctive, constant, unceasing struggle for existance. Only power, strength and survival matter. Might is right;eat or be eaten. __________________ If you have any comments, feedback, or constructive criticism on whatever I may say, please feel free to jam them back to whichever nerve in your brain it may have sprouted from. Because if you fail to do so I will simply ignore you.

01-5-2009, 08:04 PM	#51
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: Morality. So you are 100% okay, if I can manage to pull it off, with my beating you half to death, imprisoning you and making you toil to my benefit?

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