Ingame Song Information

[qqwref]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I agree, that drum solo 24th jack still pisses me off, and the song has tough jumpstream, strange patterns, and fast notes, HOWEVER, I still think it should be the cutoff for VC, as the highest one EVER. If anything is tougher it's immediately FMO. Also, I still think Novo Mundo overall is harder to AAA, that one roll part is too slow to jumptrill and one good there screws up an annoying 3 minute song, and it's easier to hit goods in that roll stream than any of the multiple tricky parts in Feld

By that logic we should make MAX Forever a VC for slow one-handed trills, because even good players have more trouble AAAing it than many VCs. Just because something requires a lot of luck to AAA doesn't mean it deserves to be at a higher difficulty. Novo only really has one truly tough part if you're trying to AAA whereas Feld has a lot of parts that are pretty tricky to PA. There's the 24th trill, right, but also 16th-12th note gallops, and the weird sections with 16th minijacks... and about length Feld has about 500 more notes and is slightly longer. To me, Novo is quite a bit easier than Feld to PA, and if Novo is low FMO (or even very high VC) Feld should be pushed up.

[leonid]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

max forever is a vc................

[TC_Cyrenics]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Tageri is absolutely not an FGO. It's a high FMO at best.

Why only an FMO?

1. The first half of the song is around a high-VC or low FMO in difficulty.

The first 1100 notes have bursts that are mostly consistent with a difficulty such as Hajnal/Choprite's bursts, but are spread pretty thinly in most spots. Even when they're compacted and have polyrhythms, they're easily readable and hittable in a semi-jumptrill fashion. The jumpstream within is also pretty easy to read and hit, as it doesn't involve a lot of hand bias or awkwardness. Even the 12th jack is insanely easy in this case, due to the speed of the song itself and lack of difficult patterns immediately preceding and following.

2. From there until the slowdown, it's slightly tougher, but not by much.

After that, up until the half-speed part, it gets a little hairier to hit everything accurately, but most of the stuff is still very trillable, and the reading difficulty is still not really changed very much. Most of the time, it's hard to get boos if you're reading it all properly and your hands are hitting in tune with the song.

3. The slowdown is mostly affected by the colored slides overhanging the 16th notes, otherwise it's simple fare.

At the part with the 16th jacks and the colored mini-slides, it gets to be about a mid-FMO to read and hit without over-hitting, but only on the colored notes overhanging the 16th notes. The rest functions like a sort of break, and is maybe a VC to nail the 32nd trills with jumps, much easier to hit than K8107.

4. Finally, we get to the only FGO-worthy part: the final 250 notes.

Once you pass all that, maybe the only part that would be FGO-worthy would be the last 250 notes, where you have the hands, jumpstream, and polyrhythms/bursts converge in a sort of final bow to end the song. It's much harder to read several of the jacks that end up coming out of the bursts and hands, and very, very tricky to snap all of the notes effectively.

| Read here for
v the tl;dr essay

First 1100 notes: High VC-Low FMO
From there until the slowdown: Mid FMO
Slowdown: Mid-VC with some FMO-ish parts due to colorbursts
Last 250 notes: Low FGO
Overall: High FMO, probably somewhere between Club and Blooddrunk

Why put it in that general area?

Club is harder as far as the jacks and pattern density, but because it's a short song, it's not as hard as those parts would like to indicate.

Tageri is longer than Club and has more patterns that trick and befuddle the player.

Blooddrunk has tons of annoying hands, with tricky jumpstream, and it's full of one-handed bias that really puts the player in a pickle if they're not fairly skilled with both of their hands. Aside from that, it's longer, has more notes, and has 'not always consistent with the music' syndrome, making it less natural to play and read. It's why Synthlight files are such a pain in the ass to play, but at least Blooddrunk is synced, so it's not as tough to adjust. Still, all the single-hand bias and weird jumping parts make for a tougher file than Tageri, despite being mostly red, blue, and yellow.


| Read here for
v the tl;dr essay

Club: Fast jacks, but too short to be harder
Tageri: Longer and faster overall, but not enough bias or true difficulty
Blooddrunk: Hand bias, awkward patterns galore, and the longest in this comparison.

Conclusion

So basically, I've summed up my feelings on Tageri's difficulty, I don't feel like doing this for Time to Eye right now, so I'll save that 'not FGO' essay for later.

[qqwref]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Blooddrunk has tons of annoying hands, with tricky jumpstream, and it's full of one-handed bias that really puts the player in a pickle if they're not fairly skilled with both of their hands. Aside from that, it's longer, has more notes, and has 'not always consistent with the music' syndrome, making it less natural to play and read. It's why Synthlight files are such a pain in the ass to play, but at least Blooddrunk is synced, so it's not as tough to adjust. Still, all the single-hand bias and weird jumping parts make for a tougher file than Tageri, despite being mostly red, blue, and yellow.

Hang on, the only part of Blooddrunk that is even in the FMO range is the trill section. Other than that part it's around the same difficulty as NWE, maybe even a little less because it's mostly 8ths. Blooddrunk is also really straightforward in terms of patterns (that is, if you have the speed to do the trills/js you should be AAAing). On the other hand Tageri is pretty fast overall and has a lot of colorful bursts and complex patterns, not to mention jacks that make the song tricky to combo. To me Blooddrunk is clearly an easier song.

Also, I disagree that being consistent with music makes a song significantly easier, and that this is the reason why Synth files are hard. I sometimes play with the music muted and the only difference is that it requires slightly more concentration (since there are no audio cues). Synth files are hard because the steps have no rhythm, not because they don't line up with the music.

[Hairy Cabbage]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

First 1100 notes: High VC-Low FMO
From there until the slowdown: Mid FMO
Slowdown: Mid-VC with some FMO-ish parts due to colorbursts
Last 250 notes: Low FGO
Overall: High FMO, probably somewhere between Club and Blooddrunk

you say the last 250 notes are low fgo, this makes the song an fgo, just because a song is easy bar one part, dosent mean it should be rated lower.

[SKG_Scintill]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Tageri is FMO, it's just tricky, but a lot of the burst you can jumppattern

[One Winged Angel]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Tageri slaughters Blooddrunk in overall difficulty. Although choosing to compare Tageri with Blooddrunk of all files is kinda hard to do. The two files have practically nothing in common, so comparing difficulties essentially becomes a matter of whether you're better at hitting bursts or one handed trills.

Tageri plays like a more beefed up version of KM to me...faster streams (and by extension, faster jumpstream), more bursts, hands, and a really cool 12th jack that's probably an extremely annoying transition to make in and out of burststream for less experienced players. Yeah, Tageri doesn't have that gay 24th piss at the end of it (don't get me wrong JX, your 'stepping to non-concrete sounds' theory is p solid), but it still spanks KM in overall difficulty when you compare both songs in their entirety.

I'm sticking with 85.

[leonid]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Tageri is as difficult as Ketsarku

def FGO

[TC_Cyrenics]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Yeah, in retrospect, Blooddrunk's a little bit of a bad choice to compare with. But I can compare it to Frictional Nevada, Lolo, and Blue Rose. So let's look at that little spectrum.

FN: 225 BPM with very constant stream and bursts, and one of the 20 densest files in FFR by taps/second. Awkward to hit and a semi-endurance file in that respect due to the myriad of notes. Some slow pauses but overall pretty much a low FGO.

Lolo: One of the most frustrating and angry low FGO files ever, and it doesn't even top 40 seconds in length. Constantly fast R-G-B 16th bursts and some 24ths piled in for good measure. The densest file in tps outside of vRofl and RATO, and actually more of a bitch to play than most people realize. Many AAAs due to shortness and speedy players. Oh, and guess what? 225 BPM. Yep, it's as fast as FN with more density and annoyance.

Blue Rose: This is one of those files that's pretty progressive in difficulty. It starts off as a VC with some pretty easy 16th fare, and some 24th bursts and mild jacks. After a while, with the polytrill and such, it's an FMO, and once we reach the jumpjacks/jumpstream flying, it's back to FGO. It starts off with more of a bang than Tageri and keeps slightly ahead of it in pace, then slows down a little to allow it to catch up. Then, the **** hits the fan and boom, jack city and mi****s galore, due to tedium, stamina drain, and the like.

So that eliminates it from being an 85, certainly. But with Gymnastics the cutoff, what sort of comparison can that possibly bring about? Let's look.

The harder in each category

Length: Tageri, by over one-and-a-half minutes
Note Count: Tageri, by over 750 notes
Density: Gymnastics, by about 2 tps
Pattern Difficulty: Gymnastics, which has 24th jacks, 24th jumpstream, 16th jumpjacks, and yellow jumpstream

Comparison: It's pretty even, but Tageri's probably just a smidge harder. Looking at Reality now, to determine FGO-ness.

Length: Tageri, by over 2 minutes
Note Count: Tageri, by about 1000 notes
Density: Reality, by about 2.5 tps
Pattern Difficulty: Reality, with 259 BPM 8th jacks, 16th stream, fewer pauses, and a weird 32nd roll transitioning into the third set of 16th stream

Comparison: Reality barely takes this one, but it's again a very tight race.

Final Conclusion (or tl;dr version)

Harder than Gymnastics, but easier than Reality, Tageri is either the highest FMO, just above Gymastics or lowest FGO, just under Reality.

Also, giving a file an FGO rating strictly for one part under 20% of the song is completely biased and unworthy. If a file is going to be rated FGO, it should at least have several FGO-like parts within it, not just a small portion that's highly difficult. That's why I disagree with the Time to Eye rating as well. It's just not indicative of the song's difficulty as a whole.

Seriously Final tl;dr Version
I say make Tageri the complete cutoff of FMO, with Time to Eye just beneath it.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Alright...let me give my thoughts on Tageri.

First off, it does make me happy that a few people are comparing it to Ketsarku, because my intentions were to get it around that difficulty level. Now, let me break down the file.

The intro up to the first speed-up doesn't use anything higher than 16ths at the base BPM (190), so it's considerably easier than the rest of the file. We don't have to look too much here, but I'm splitting up the file a bit more than you did Cy. I completely disagree with you when you say that the file is a low FMO for the first 1100 notes.

After the intro, you start seeing some pretty basic 16th note jumpstream, a simple 32nd burst that just requires you to to do (14)(23), and a little color burst. This color burst, while it is pretty easy to do, is very strange. You can just do a 16th jumptrill and get lucky, but you're likely to get at least one good doing it that way. This tiny little 14 measure section is a low FMO just because of that strange colored burst by itself.

From measures 33 (where the song follows the violin and some other sound that I can't really describe) to the section with the hands, there are a few 32nd bursts flow awkwardly with the rest of the song (the 134 burst and the 413 burst), alongside with some relatively easy 16th jumpstream. There's a (14)(23)(14)(23)(14) in the middle of one of the 16th jumpstream areas, which leads to problems with jump-splitting. Easy goods there. Still a relatively low FMO here.

The hand section is easy, but ends with a 1423(14) 32nd burst that leads into you repeating the left most three notes over and over again while balancing the two synth areas. Mess up the burst and you're guaranteed to completely blow the end of this section. Still keeping the FMO pace here.

Section after that has a little burst with a few strange 16th patterns. Low FMO still. Then you have the break. Nothing to say there, it's just a break.

After this break is where the song starts to pick up. The down-up jumps with the right arrow give a slight chance for jump splitting, but that's really minor. If you try hitting the three note buzzes after this as hands, you run the risk of getting at least one good there. There's another 8 note color burst that looks strange, and it can't quite jump-trilled so easily. Followed by a 32nd spin burst, you have a burst that can't be cheated unless you feel like mashing. This section ends with a 12 note colored burst, with the last 4 notes flipping around slightly to try to screw you over. This section is a mid to high FMO because it starts to increase the chance of you getting some sort of combo break.

The section featuring the up-note jack is one of the FGO sections. Two 32nd bursts, one of which is a before the up note jack. The burst is a split jump, so if you mess that up, you're practically guaranteed to miss the first note of the jack. The jumpstream following this jack is just awkward and is easy to split like mad (one set of [14][23][14], and one of [24][13][24]), and has 3 note bursts after it too. You also have another burst that can't be cheated unless you want to mash it out.

The two sections from here to the slowdown are just dealing with a few 32nd bursts here and there. FMO.

The first half of the slowdown is easy. The second half starts to add some trills while balancing other notes. Nothing too hard. The ending of the section speeds up, throws in some handstream (something that FFR isn't too used to), and adds a burst that is pretty much guess and pray.

First half of the ending is simple, 8th note hands with a few 16ths disguised as offset 64ths. The second ending is a jumpsplitting fest with a few bursts that are placed in the worst possible spots ever, closing it off with another FGO section.

To be honest, I find this file to be neck and neck in difficulty to Ketsarku, and I've thought for a while that it was the easiest FGO because it is the slowest. The hardest section of Ketsarku is the last 100 notes or so, with awkward 24th notes and 32nd notes that are really hard to hit.

I wrote an essay on my own damn file. What's wrong with me.

TLDR: Leave Tageri as the FGO cutoff. Anything easier is FMO.

[TC_Cyrenics]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Some agreement with my points but deviating quite a bit, ending with FGO cutoff

...so finally someone sees that it's very close and deserves to be a cutoff song.

Even if you're on the other side of the cutoff, nice to see that I'm at least not entirely an idiot for thinking Tageri's not as hard as everyone makes it out to be...

...And in conclusion, Time to Eye is the FMO cutoff; anything harder is FGO.

[qqwref]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I actually think Tageri is a bit above Ketsarku, mainly for the speed requirement. It's significantly harder to FC Tageri without mashing than Ketsarku, and I feel more tired at the end of Tageri. I can also get much better PA on Ketsarku because a lot of the bursts are obvious patterns (various rolls, 3/4 rolls, jumptrills) so for me they're easier to read and PA - but this might just be due to practice as I've played Ketsarku a LOT.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Without a doubt--you need more stamina to finish off Tageri. You also need to be more precise with patterns. However, Ketsarku's ending requires a LOT more skill because you have to control roll speed along with some pretty tough stream.

They both have rough endings, but Ketsarku's is a bit harder.

[Etylukah]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Angel Island Remix should be moved from 11 to 10. It's an Ievan Polkka clone in term of difficulty.
Tageri is high FMO.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Without a doubt--you need more stamina to finish off Tageri

jesus christ what the hell is wrong with me...for like half a second, I pictured someone raping an anthropomorphic arrow woman labeled 'tageri' and blasting her/it in the face

I still don't think tageri is the easiest FGO by any means, but I'm too lazy to give my rendition of a song analysis...still sticking with 85 however

and that sonic song is like 74, nothing FMO about it