Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

[jimerax]

Finished, 53+s by Tass, 47+s by me.
Overall file quality is a lot better than the last batch.
Since there were so many files and it took nearly 2 weeks for me, lacking judgement consintency a bit I guess.

As for the judgement quality, basically "more (skilled) judges" = better,
because conclusively file quality is determined by many people in this community.
I know it won't make it easier to judge for anyone, though.

[DigitalS3r4ph]

I like how you retort opinion with opinion.

Originally Posted by Shashakiro

Not really, because your tastes are often COMPLETELY backwards from the rest of the community (for example, Vertex Beta, which was stomped on by almost every SM player as a bad file and yet praised by almost every non-SM player as a great file), and yet you make up a pretty small minority of the players. What really bothers me is when you (a collective you, because a lot of the SM players do this) act as though your tastes will be everyone's tastes, and as though this is a solid fact, when it's often exactly the opposite.

Oh, is that so? The community is filled with approx. over 1,000,000 people. While you may think that your files in particular are praised by many, I'm certain that I could easily quote some of the 100+ in my AOL/MSN buddy list who have said at one point or another that they'd rather not see another 'lol random' Shashakiro file in the game. Be they people I know from High School that play only FFR, people I've met through FFR, and people I know who play both Stepmania and FFR, it doesn't matter. Someone is going to like a file no matter how bad or good it is. (hi19hi19 likes my ****ty old Sakura Kagetsu file ) You were just fortunate enough to see most of people's positive comments on your files.

I have my own tastes, I agree with that. Yes, I like files that I feel are well thought out, carefully crafted, and cared for. To bolster my credibility on that statement, I'll give you an example. I don't like a good majority of Rebirth's files set into FFR, simply because he's able to crap them out within a timespan of a day. He still has a knack for quickly creating files that are solid if not generic, however.

Again, I'm willing to put my thoughts to rest for the time being.

Oh... And one interesting tidbit of info before you dub me as an SM KB enthusiast again- I create Padfiles and edits more often than I do dedicated KB simfiles. And enjoy those much more.

[Shashakiro]

I like how you retort opinion with opinion.

So do I.

I'm certain that I could easily quote some of the 100+ in my AOL/MSN buddy list who have said at one point or another that they'd rather not see another 'lol random' Shashakiro file in the game.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here. If you're saying 100 people have said to you that I'm a bad file artist, I call hilarious BS--I seriously doubt you've even had that many IM conversations where my name came up, let alone with different people, about my FFR files, all negative. If you're just saying that's how many you have in your list total, and you can quote some from that--of course, and I wasn't by any means trying to claim that you're the only one who dislikes my files...just that most of my files, as far as I can tell, are liked by the majority. I'm not by any means certain of this since my sample size is so small, but it's a reasonable enough guess--just as it's a reasonable enough guess that most people hate EHHS, based on the proportion of negative feedback to positive feedback.

[DigitalS3r4ph]

Originally Posted by Shashakiro

I'm not by any means certain of this since my sample size is so small

Then don't act like you are, Judge.

[Shashakiro]

Originally Posted by DigitalS3r4ph

Then don't act like you are, Judge.

There's a fine line between "certain" and "pretty sure".

[macgravel]

Originally Posted by someguy

any fight u make with shash on da internets u will always lose LOL

No.

Originally Posted by Rebirth0

Also, Shash, you speak as if we are all wrong, no matter what we say about it. (and I'm not even part of the SM community anymore, I haven't been for MONTHS). You can think everything we say is wrong, but hopefully you don't think that everything you do is in fact right. You yourself could be very wrong in many things. Just because you're one of the simfile judges here doesn't mean you've got much more experience than us, it doesn't mean that you're better than us in these catagories. You just got lucky.

Yes.

Originally Posted by Shashakiro

Vertex Beta, which was stomped on by almost every SM player as a bad file and yet praised by almost every non-SM player as a great file

Because, they don't know the line between good or bad.

Non-SM player: RANDOM STREAMS OH GOD U ARE DA BEST MAKER EVER LOL
SM player: Hmm, this stream is too long and becomes boring, sorry Shash =\
Shash: ROFL NON SM PLAYERS UNDERSTAND ME MORE HEHEHE

Originally Posted by DigitalS3r4ph

Oh, is that so? The community is filled with approx. over 1,000,000 people. While you may think that your files in particular are praised by many, I'm certain that I could easily quote some of the 100+ in my AOL/MSN buddy list who have said at one point or another that they'd rather not see another 'lol random' Shashakiro file in the game. Be they people I know from High School that play only FFR, people I've met through FFR, and people I know who play both Stepmania and FFR, it doesn't matter. Someone is going to like a file no matter how bad or good it is. (hi19hi19 likes my ****ty old Sakura Kagetsu file ) You were just fortunate enough to see most of people's positive comments on your files.

I have my own tastes, I agree with that. Yes, I like files that I feel are well thought out, carefully crafted, and cared for. To bolster my credibility on that statement, I'll give you an example. I don't like a good majority of Rebirth's files set into FFR, simply because he's able to crap them out within a timespan of a day. He still has a knack for quickly creating files that are solid if not generic, however.

Again, I'm willing to put my thoughts to rest for the time being.

Yes

Originally Posted by DigitalS3r4ph

Oh... And one interesting tidbit of info before you dub me as an SM KB enthusiast again- I create Padfiles and edits more often than I do dedicated KB simfiles. And enjoy those much more.

Yes, me too.

Can't wait to see the queue list

[Rebirth0]

Originally Posted by DigitalS3r4ph

I don't like a good majority of Rebirth's files set into FFR, simply because he's able to crap them out within a timespan of a day. He still has a knack for quickly creating files that are solid if not generic, however.

Sorry. I kinda agree with you. I don't like a lot of the files I **** out into this game. Because the judging is the way it is, very crappy, I've lost a lot of care when it comes to simfile making. I can't even make a simfile exactly how I want to anymore when it's for this game. It's make a simfile to meet their exact specifications or you don't get crap. This is why I haven't made a whole lot of simfiles for SM anymore. But, the few files I have made lately have been very good (at least in the opinions of the people that have tested them)

And when I say I can't make a simfile the way I want to anymore, I don't mean I can't make some superlayered 15 footer file, if you guys really know me, I try to stay away from layered files (there are some occasions where I do that though) If there's one thing that they don't like, it's rejected. One little running man stream, one little 12th or 8th jack that may become a 4 framer, a small 16th stream when the rest of the file is 8th notes (EVEN WHEN ITS CLEARLY IN THE MUSIC), it's rejected

[Shashakiro]

Didn't see Rebirth's post--I actually agree with it in that I may very well be wrong and you all may very well be right. We judges can only do the best we can with what we have, though...actually, the lack of any real feedback nowadays for files is pretty frustrating to me, because it makes it hard to determine what people want in files. All I ever hear is a general kind of "files nowadays suc" which doesn't really mean anything as far as judging is concerned.

Because, they don't know the line between good or bad.

Ah, I was waiting for that one to show up.

My stance, and realistically, the only stance the judges can take if you think about it, is that the majority defines what is good and what is bad--it is literally impossible for the majority to "not know" what is good or bad. If the majority thinks VB is good, it's good--end of story. You can try to portray the SM folks as more having more "refined" tastes, and the masses as being stupid and/or simple in their tastes, but realize that this means zero to a file judge--the majority is always right. Certainly, we're not going to make EVERY FILE a stream file, or even accept every submitted stream file, but you can bet that as long as we perceive that a majority of players like stream files (I have never perceived otherwise in all my time on this site), we will continue to accept some of them without hesitation.

[revolutionomega]

I find this whole thread amazing!
I just need to step a file before I die. (Or at least one that isn't soo offbeat I could go take a crap between the beat and the note) xD

[DigitalS3r4ph]

Which is why Shash, I started to step files hopefully for people to enjoy in FFR. If people start thinking out of the box rather than let themselves dig deeper and deeper into a hole that will, in the end result, make everyone bored of FFR, then better files will be put into the game and people will enjoy the game a bit more.

I'm not saying that my files are perfect- By all means, I know I'm definitely not the best or one of the greatest- But I try, and care for my work. I cared for those files I submitted and I am absolutely elated to find that they were accepted into the queue.

If you start to reject generic and standard files without hesitation because the majority show interest in files that seem interesting, then yeah, that's something I'd be happy about honestly. This is just my take on it though... But that's something I'd just thought I'd say, since I noticed a pattern in people becoming disinterested and bored of things they find as 'the norm.' Why, you yourself said in your own profile, that you're getting bored of FFR. :P Whether it be for a different reason or not, that's still something you said.

Show some flavor man.

And while this is a bit off-topic; As far as stepmania goes, I really can't wait for SMGrooveKbmp2 to be released... A good deal of the accepted files I've seen are very interesting.

[Snapps]

yeah i think the problem is the judges replace tass

[Rebirth0]

That's one of the things you're doing wrong.

You can't really go to the publics opinion on simfiles to change how you judge the files. That's the worst decision you can make as a judge. You've got to be experienced enough so that YOU YOURSELF know exactly what a good simfile is. Do not go to the public for an opinion. Half if not more of this site is filled with people that have no idea what they're talking about. They'll say something is bad when it's good, they'll say it's good when it's bad. They don't know better, and that's alright. If a few people don't like running men, who gives a ****. If the file to you feels good with running men or something, accept it.

All of us, and even you are saying that you could be wrong and we could in fact be right. So why not take advice from us at least one time, for one batch of simfiles, and do it the way we're suggesting? There's no way anything can be hurt from trying it a different way at least once. Listen to the music, and determine what a good file would look like for that song. That is a true simfile judge.

If you can't judge for yourself what a good simfile is, you should let someone who does know what they're talking about do it. (I'm not talking about give me or the other people who are complaining in this thread the job instead of you) It's for the best that you choose the simfiles that are best suited for the song, and if you can't, it's no big deal, you just can't see it yet.

[DigitalS3r4ph]

Now Rebirth, you're on the right track but just keep in mind that it's the common people that you're trying to appease with these files, not just ourselves. =)

In my opinion, people can only like something if they recieve it. They find FFR fun, they're going to want to play it more. They find streams fun, they're going to want to play that more. Keep introducing new ideas to the table, and something will be liked. Isn't FFR built upon ideas in the first place? Look at all the cool features that have been added over time and people have taken a liking to, for example.

And iirc- Although it might not be all that great now, I remember when 20031023 was first put into FFR, a good amount of people went nuts over how cool the file was to them.

[Tasselfoot]

as i've stated before.... the biggest problem, to me, is that files don't play the same in SM as they do in FFR. a file that is amazing in SM might be horrible in FFR. or vice versa.

also, only having the time to test each file once is a big issue. i don't care who you are, only getting to sightread a song is not the best way to go about things. playing something a second time is a big difference. you know the music better, you can anticipate the notes to some degree.

i don't claim that we're perfect. all i claim is that we know what we're doing and that we do the best that we can do. and we're even better off now that jx has joined out team for simfile judging. i think that our new tiered judging system will really help in the long run.

also, dont forget. any changes we make now to judging won't show up in-game for months.

was going to add something else... but now i forget what that was.

the vast majority are happy with the vast majority of the files released. to me, that is the best success that we can hope for.


EDIT: oh yea. i remember what i was going to say.... i'm ALL for unique and interesting files for FFR. they just still need to fit with the music and have to be playable on FFR. if anything, i'm against uber long stream files.

[Shashakiro]

Originally Posted by DigitalS3r4ph

Which is why Shash, I started to step files hopefully for people to enjoy in FFR. If people start thinking out of the box rather than let themselves dig deeper and deeper into a hole that will, in the end result, make everyone bored of FFR, then better files will be put into the game and people will enjoy the game a bit more.

Sounds great. I'm all for files that are a break from the norm--as long as they meet the guidelines, which is not really all that hard to do when you understand them.

If you start to reject generic and standard files without hesitation because the majority show interest in files that seem interesting, then yeah, that's something I'd be happy about honestly.

Well, they'd have to also show that they disliked the generic stuff, but yeah, that would certainly not be a bad thing.

Why, you yourself said in your own profile, that you're getting bored of FFR. :P Whether it be for a different reason or not, that's still something you said.

For me personally, it's entirely because FFR (at the point I left it) was effectively composed of around 20 or so files, most of them crappy ones like Caprice, Pants, Revo, OMW, etc, and then a bunch of stuff I'd already AAA'd and therefore had no further interest in.

As for what Rebirth said: I don't see how it benefits FFR at all to ignore what the majority wants and instead go with what the judge personally prefers. I would prefer it if every single new file was a 5.5 or higher in difficulty--does that mean I should reject everything below that? Obviously not. Yes, we make our own decisions based on what we feel is right--but what we feel is right is based on what we think other people will like, and there's no reason whatsoever for it to based on anything else.

[DigitalS3r4ph]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

EDIT: oh yea. i remember what i was going to say.... i'm ALL for unique and interesting files for FFR. they just still need to fit with the music and have to be playable on FFR. if anything, i'm against uber long stream files.

There was something I wanted to add to that but I kept ignoring the opportunity- As long as technicalities allow for it, I indeed am all for files that are creative and interesting; I know that with all of FFR's limitations, it can't possibly be limited to, as Macgravel so affectionately puts it, lolstreams.

We're all on the same table here; I only want to see FFR grow =) That's all Rebirth wants as well, and I'm sure that's what you judges want. Like I said, it's really unfair to single us out by calling my group the "SMer's" because we aren't telling you to make FFR more like ODI- Just more interesting. (From how I see it, lol.)

[constathed]

is there a list of rejections?

also i think that files like CIA rave v2 (which i think is one of the best stepped files on FFR) should be accepted...if the arrows go with a song really well then they should be accepted for sure

[Cyanite]

Originally Posted by constathed

is there a list of rejections?

Yeah, with every batch.

[Lain_Iwakura]

hehe

ffr files

[constathed]

where is the rejection list?