TWG 209: Jeff's Just Here to Party GAME THREAD

[LastOfTheBonehicans]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

With 7 of us alive, we likely have 3 chances to get the last wolf out with our votes, so I had simply been framing my opinions in those terms. You could I guess argue that that is sus of me to be thinking that long-term, but fmpov that is just basic maths and the reality of town's situation.

I am also only giving my opinions so I can get feedback. I would love for people to debate me or find the actual wolf, if I am missing something. It was not intended to be a threat to say that you will probably have difficulty defending yourself directly from a process of elimination situation, just that the circumstances that you find yourself in of there being no real evidence you are not Freezin's partner would be difficult to argue against through defence. It would be more effective, as I said, to show me what I missed with somebody else.

If you are the last wolf, I do empathise that this is game is close to a worst case scenario situation for you currently and that you have gotten unlucky due to things that you cannot control e.g. eye surgery timing and when the game happened to start. No one is judging you for that. I have empathy for Freezin too. He can post well as a wolf when he has more time to do it; he has won against me before. I will keep trying to assess your alignment so long as I am still awake, in any case. I am a bit nauseous so it's hard to say how long that will be.

Well I too wish you good health and the nausea goes away. Never a fun time.

I see your points, I was mainly trying to point out "be wary of those who dictate the pace"

Plenty of games where a wolf gets into a position where they are the ones dictating the pace of the game and the next 4 voting rounds are determined before day 2.

While it certainly can be sketchy, I do truly belive you are town as you never really pushed for anyone last day phase.... and..... drum roll

Let's just look at the break down. Prior to the end

Star was sitting with 2 votes and was going to die -> freezin and blind had votes on them.

Freezin switches votes to Subaru to try and force a tie.

Subaru then casts the death vote to freezin whi tried to switch back to star to force a tie between the two of them.

This likely says - Star and Subaru are clean. Unless some tin foil hat conspiracy where Star and Freezin said ok let's tie whoever dies is revealed wolf and thebother can ride the goodness of being voted by a wolf. Possible but a stretch I think.

Now on to what has transpired.

That leaves us with 5 suspects.

Myself - of course I will state I am town, but you have no reason to believe that. All I can say is I have tried to engage in thoughtful conversation and add value to any of the conversations we have had. That said... I disappeared at the end of voting and was one of the few who did. Laying low in that situation is the best wolf play. You defend freezin and lose and thats game. You defend and win... well why would you help them not get killed and its revealed star is a human.

Nakah (sorry I dont know how to spell your new username and I cant see) - now that it's out yes I know them irl and have played with them over the years plenty of times. Nothing honestly seems out of the ordinary here yet. From what I remember this seems like his playstyle as a human. Again that was 5 years ago or so, but yeah.

With that said, he did nitpicking both myself and round in his first two posts. Round was deemed human. Doesn't clear my name but we do need to note those who did question Round and freezin.

Tps - claimed a power and said that they revealed blind used a power last night.
And they do bring up some decent points in this debate.

Blind came out post vote "I knew freezin was a wolf!!!" Over excitement. Which is grasping at straws until you look at some of the follow up.

Bee line hard press to TPS and then

Asking why didn't you change your vote before day ends... you could ask the same thing to anyone other than Subaru and freezin.

Blind - but here is the interesting counter. They hint heavily that they know TPS has a power. "I have a powerful feeling tps knows something"

Which can easily defend the immediate call out of tps.

They did, however, vote with freezin on star. If freezin does not move the vote to Subaru, star is likely dead right now. Im like 85% sure that blind had the vote first.

Jinx - I honestly dont have a read one way or the other in a sense that they seem the most human of the ones we can logically cross off (Subaru and Star)

I just don't read wolf here. You're voted for me and that makes me sad, but honestly when looking at the big picture, I get the read.

The conundrum is:

1. Both TPS and Blind are green power rangers and we are about to lose both of them (1 is getting voted off and then the other is wolfed)

2. 1 is green 1 is red... and games over latest day phase 3.

Does anyone have any lean either way here? I tend to lean towards blind being the red in this scenario for the sole fact that they claim seer but were told TPS has a power (any game ive played youd get the exact role name)

And the aggression towards TPS immediately. In a game where we have no idea who has roles and how many... seems a little risky.

The only thing throwing me wildly off is if TPS knows blind used a power on him and he's still alive.... I mean sure a seer wolf is possible but do we think that kind of power is in play.

Sorry for my dissertation

[SubaruPoptart]

Power Role by definition = town to me at this point as well, I'm not considering wolf PR because to me that just boils down to The Last Wolf which is what we're tryna find anyway; would just add too many layers.

Wolf PR only can do so much as the last one, no-one to share what they got with unless they wanna risk shooting out either doctored info, or passing it off as a town PR result to the general populace. I called Blind's claim a counterclaim at first because he did claim his PR after TPS did, I admittedly don't put much good stock on someone saying "oh yeah I did stuff to you too as well" after being called out for having visited someone, so regardless of actual alignment it felt kinda cc'y. I realized after Blind clarified to me that that is not what this term actually means but idrk what else to call it LMAO.

Going down this line of thinking further it's possible Blind did somethin else entirely and is saving face by running a thunderdome. But if he hinted to his PR prior like he said he did, this wouldn't make much sense to me. He's already said he's layin everything on the table this game; thinkin out loud and such and I think he's delivered on that pretty much the whole time.

I haven't seen anyone else slip in the vein of "I wolf PR'd someone last night and have info that nobody else should have that I'm lowkey alluding to" that I can tell so like........... this is tough.

Cuz on the flipside if TPS was the one lying, Blind seered him etc. a Wolf Tracker or whatever falls along those lines kindaaaaaaaa sucks as the last one. It's really a neverending loop of "nuh uh no you aren't I am" to me if it were to be between these two.

[Tps222]

It wouldn't make sense to have a tracker+seer with no other power roles unless they were specifically trying trip the human team up with misleading results at night.

and why wouldn't blind get a blue/green/red read on me if they were a seer?

I guess its possible that we are both trackers and so blind also got vague "player targeted player" info, but that seems more confusing of a blue combo to have for humans than just one of them.

[LastOfTheBonehicans]

Well it comes down ultimately to one of two things.

1. They're both telling the truth and that then leaves myself, nakah, and Jinx as suspects that cant logically be ruled out. (Yes ultimately star and Subaru cpuld still be wolves, but you can logically argue based on voting they arent. Especially Subaru they sent freezin to the gallows)

2. One is lying and is a wolf.

[star-crossed]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Vanilla_Cop

He was afraid to call it the right name because of the rule about quoting your pm

[LastOfTheBonehicans]

That makes sense. And I do believe blind was hinting heavily without outright claiming a role.

So the question becomes do we roll the dice on one of them or do we lynch myself or lekhasis to give the townsfolk to quiz them more

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by Tps222

It wouldn't make sense to have a tracker+seer with no other power roles unless they were specifically trying trip the human team up with misleading results at night.

and why wouldn't blind get a blue/green/red read on me if they were a seer?

I guess its possible that we are both trackers and so blind also got vague "player targeted player" info, but that seems more confusing of a blue combo to have for humans than just one of them.

It would be pretty weird to have an actual seer and a tracker together in a 9 player game I think. Would be too much investigative power. Vanilla Cop and Tracker are weaker roles and make some good sense together because they each give the other something to find. Neither would really be strong enough on their own against the wolf team.

[star-crossed]

Like, it being a misleading combo (such as in this exact scenario that has apparently played out) is part of what balances having two town PRs as well.

For blind to somehow be lying, you basically need Nakah to be sitting on another insane reveal.

[SubaruPoptart]

Originally Posted by Tps222

It wouldn't make sense to have a tracker+seer with no other power roles unless they were specifically trying trip the human team up with misleading results at night.

and why wouldn't blind get a blue/green/red read on me if they were a seer?

I guess its possible that we are both trackers and so blind also got vague "player targeted player" info, but that seems more confusing of a blue combo to have for humans than just one of them.

Ninja'd a billion times, also keep fumbling my tabs and closing out what I'm typing hopefully this one survives.

After Bone's dissertation and that particular sentence in TPS' response, I do wanna know now. I wasn't really thinking about how the roles worked, I think I've only been a power role once and it was when I replaced into TWG 188. Put this one in my quotes because I did pretty much exactly what Sunfan had said here.

Does seer give you colors on here normally or is it how Blind had described? Or is it kept intentionally vague due to the rules? Not really sure if I'm breakin any myself askin all this to be quite honest. I haven't seen a resource for how FFR TWG roles are built but I hadn't even considered this. TPS' guess is also a valid outcome but I'll consider that after I know how stuff works.

Because otherwise Bone if either/both of em are functioning how it logically should on here, I'm personally the most inclined to vote Lahke out of you two.

[Tps222]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

He was afraid to call it the right name because of the rule about quoting your pm

You're allowed to claim your role name, I did in my original post and Blind did originally as Seer

Originally Posted by blindreper1179

Some of this is correct, except I'm not a wolf. I'm the towns Seer

If you're right, it won't matter which of blind/me you lynch, the other one is getting wolfed tonight.

So if we decide to pursue someone else and come up empty, one of blind/me is wolfed and you're left with one of us tomorrow.

Do you then go vote for another non-roleclaim person, and check to see if the remaining person is wolfed afterwards? Or do you ask them who their target was that night and act on that?

With only 1 wolf left, if it really is 2 blue roles for humans and none for wolves (which blind doesn't even believe)

Originally Posted by blindreper1179

I don't believe tps is town because 2 power roles in a vanilla game with most likely 2 wolves, and they have no powers? Or did we both choose the wrong person? Idk.

then I think we should focus on other targets if you guys don't feel comfortable piling on to blind and gambling the duo-blue roles, and letting the wolf handle it through nights while humans play the numbers through the days. That does leave open some room for reverse psychology in unexpected wolfings, but it probably still comes out in our favor either way.

I'm keeping my vote where it is for now until I see more from blind.

[JinxGrace]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Freezin was somewhat in his normal range but on the more sus side of it was my take. Usually he posts a bit more so that we would have more to go based on. Only Blind can answer why Blind didn't move his vote after calling out two different people as sus so yeah.

I have been playing on and off since 2017 I think - and for a good stretch of that I felt like the "new kid" in a small community. Blind played a lot of TWG between like 2014-2018, and was only back for the weird TWG 200 I have referenced a bit, which I do not even remember if I talked to him during. That is why we were greeting vaguely like old friends but also that he was apparently unsure I'd remember him. I have never really talked to him outside of the gmaes but I do find him funny.

Freezin also has played a good bit on and off from 2014 or so onward I think, so they have played together somewhere between a few and several times though I have no important memories of their interactions in games personally. Subaru is newer than us (it's harder for me to get exact dates as easily because the history thread stopped being updated) and tends to leave gaps when he plays so I sometimes observe that he feels like he has to relearn some aspects of the game. There are other people better at reading him than me that I lean on for it sometimes.

roundbox has played the most, including predating Freezin and blind I think. Less so in the past few games though.

I see. So here it really is just an opportunistic time to play and not like a close community of mafia players that do everything together. On my home site the mafia players marry and have babies and switch countries for each other lol. And before Covid they were trying to meet up yearly. It’s small too. A bit bigger then this but the at smaller then MU. However most of us have played together for awhile, some are closer then others. I always like to watch the closer friends act to each other in game because they can pick up AI easier. But I viewed that as really comfy/fun way to enter but also could be attempt to mess with a good friend or maybe even pocket. It’s really interesting too. I wish I could grasp better on people’s comfort gauge here. Subaru doesn’t seem newe. Seems like an old soul to the game

[star-crossed]

The ability he mentions in his claim post is what a vanilla cop does and not a seer. So I asked him if he would confirm his actual role name. The quoting pm thing came up (yes I agree this was overly paranoid of him but that is not actually suspicious). Then I asked him if he was a vanilla cop and he said yes.

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by JinxGrace

I see. So here it really is just an opportunistic time to play and not like a close community of mafia players that do everything together. On my home site the mafia players marry and have babies and switch countries for each other lol. And before Covid they were trying to meet up yearly. It’s small too. A bit bigger then this but the at smaller then MU. However most of us have played together for awhile, some are closer then others. I always like to watch the closer friends act to each other in game because they can pick up AI easier. But I viewed that as really comfy/fun way to enter but also could be attempt to mess with a good friend or maybe even pocket. It’s really interesting too. I wish I could grasp better on people’s comfort gauge here. Subaru doesn’t seem newe. Seems like an old soul to the game

Well there are some very close friends and a couple of couples! Uhh...when you catch up to the point of Lahk's reveal you will also see that we apparently have that in this game too. Haha

[star-crossed]

I have read #301 and respect the effort but it has not made me want to change my vote.

[SubaruPoptart]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

The ability he mentions in his claim post is what a vanilla cop does and not a seer. So I asked him if he would confirm his actual role name. The quoting pm thing came up (yes I agree this was overly paranoid of him but that is not actually suspicious). Then I asked him if he was a vanilla cop and he said yes.

I think I entirely missed this exchange I'm ngl. So Blind's Cop not Seer? I'm a lil suspicious just cuz What The Fuck Is Happening but I guess if that wrinkle's ironed out, I've got a solid plan now along the lines of Bone's dissertation.

I'm kinda fine with the idea of letting TPS/Blind play out. Provided one of them survive and roles go through extra info would help on top of flips. I thought I'd like this second phase being 48 hours but I'm now at the point where there's so many variables that I needa hit the Hint button so to speak and it's rough.

Like I'd said above between Bone and Lahke, provided like Star had said Lahke don't already got a bombshell of their own I'm keen on flippin Lahke.

Originally Posted by JinxGrace

I see. So here it really is just an opportunistic time to play and not like a close community of mafia players that do everything together. On my home site the mafia players marry and have babies and switch countries for each other lol. And before Covid they were trying to meet up yearly. It’s small too. A bit bigger then this but the at smaller then MU. However most of us have played together for awhile, some are closer then others. I always like to watch the closer friends act to each other in game because they can pick up AI easier. But I viewed that as really comfy/fun way to enter but also could be attempt to mess with a good friend or maybe even pocket. It’s really interesting too. I wish I could grasp better on people’s comfort gauge here. Subaru doesn’t seem newe. Seems like an old soul to the game

I think there was a period of time where it was like a year or two between games for sure, it's not as frequent as I was under the impression it was way before I started playin for sure.

I'd consider myself new to forums-based games. I love me some social deduction games but I think I've mostly played graphical ones. Town of Salem, Among Us, loosely Gmod TTT and Murder; gotten a few LiveMafia games together with my friends but I'd play those way more frequently than I've played TWG for sure. I like actually havin to read but that's definitely a challenge sometimes, added anxiety sometimes it's extra rough but I like the challenge

[JinxGrace]

Where do you get your roles from? MU? Or is there a list/dictionary or roles somewhere on this site? I want to read seer and tracker do

[star-crossed]

Blind claimed https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Vanilla_Cop

TPS claimed https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Tracker

We do not necessarily always use MU as a reference point but it should work for this game.

[LastOfTheBonehicans]

Because as a wolf here is how you play it... or at least how I play. There is only 1 wolf so its what

7 v 1... I have to make it to 1 v1 with 2 solid human reads
If you make it past the vote round - Subaru is next to go... has to be they are the most logical human and I cant have them in a triangle with me in later rounds.

So now day 3 is
5 v 1 - with star being a solid read as human. You cant totally write them off but realistically freezin could have tried to force tie with anyone else who had a vote but was willing to roll the dice with them.

If you make it past that round star is gone and you have your
3 v 1

There is no way a power gets wolfed at this stage in the game. If I right now am a wolf, this was a perfect diversion. Say we get a generic town today. Now we are 2nd guessing the piwer claims.

Say we eliminate the wrong power today... not wolfing the other because they look super guilty and is an easy bandwagon vote.

So what is the more likely outcome: the wolf is sitting idle and letting the power fight happen or is the last wolf a power claim?

Heres the curveball... if you arent comfortable lynching a power claim, vote me. Im boring vanilla town and there is no way to logically deduce me 100% as human like Subaru or Star.

If both power claims survive the night, you have to ask why are they both still alive? A lone wolf doesn't let 2 powers run around its too dangerous even if you dont trust the power claims right now. Too risky.

This puts the odds in humans hands. If both powers live and Subaru or Star is wolfed... you are 5 v 1 with 1 logical human giving you a 25% chance to hit. One of the powers is being honest so they should reveal information to help the human odds.

If a power is wolfed... auto lynch the other. You head into night 3 with 2 logical humans and 2 possible wolves.a 50/50 shot in the last day worst case

[JinxGrace]

Also Lahkesis needs the it was me - Dio meme from jojo

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by TWG Jeff Probst

In the night...

Roundbox has died. He was

Vanilla Town

It is now Day 2. Day 2 will end on Tuesday, July 1st at 9 PM CST

Guys I do not know why we have no vote count but there are like 15 minutes left until 9 server time and votes do not count at :00