Ingame Song Information

[qqwref]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Why can't we keep [Oni] at the same difficulty? There are plenty of people who have gotten it on songs that would definitely not be considered FMO now, and that's annoying to me because I don't have [Oni]. Given my ranks on low to mid FMOs, I know I'm at least in the top 428 players here; and yet 428 people have [Oni] and I don't. I don't think that the requirements for a skill token should get harder just because players who have already done the requirement 50 times over think it's too easy.

Personally I don't think we should keep moving the difficulties down so that the best players are always competing on FGO songs. I am more in favor of keeping the difficulties where they are and just accepting the fact that we have a higher proportion of high-difficulty songs than we used to (and maybe that the hardest songs have a higher difficulty than we used to allow for). There's nothing that says 12 has to be the highest difficulty, either - if you think FGO is getting too wide, why not just push the harder songs into 13? I mean, that's what happened on pad, the original difficulty 10 got too easy, but instead of continually making the requirements for a song to be a 10 (or whatever) harder, so that you had to keep improving to stay where you were, they just started giving songs difficulties of 11, 12, and so on. I think it's better that way, because then someone who could comfortably pass 12s in 2003 would still be able to do that in 2007 if they stayed at the same skill level... that would just be ranked worse in the community. I don't think difficulty levels should reflect how good the community is or how many people can FC/AAA them (subjective rankings), just how hard the song itself is (objective rankings).

[krunkykai22]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I've never posted in this thread, but I kinda have one opinion on one FMO song, and that would be silence. People talk about NWE/LW4/etc. being a very low FMO song. However, imo, silence would probably be the easiest FMO song that is out there right now. If you compare that to sympathizer or vertex beta; I have a 30 good FC on vertex beta, compared to an SDG on silence. I feel that silence should be bumped down to a VC rather than a FMO. As for lowering the standards, I agree but disagree. By lowering the standards of the levels, it's not really gonna help make anyone better. Rather then quite the opposite. IF ANYTHING, raise some of the levels imo. But its just that, my opinion xD.

[Gilly G]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I'm going to have to agree with qqwref's point. Just because the players are getting better does not mean the difficulties should be modified. Perhaps the players who have been here longer are better, but there are always more recent players that see our easier songs as their harder songs. Once again, this is opinions fighting on difficulty ratings, and will lead us nowhere.

It's much easier to incorporate something new too. If we change the system, EVERYTHING has to change, while if we just add something, nothing else changes other than what was added.

In other words, keep all 1-11 difficulties (while still arguing over borderline songs xD) but widen the 12s to 13+s to differentiate them more. As I have seen stated numerous times, there is a huge gap between the easier FGOs that people AAA and the harder FGOs that people have trouble FCing and there must be a way to differentiate those by difficulty since they are not on the same scale.



Here is a little thing I would like to add on my part concerning borderline songs. Many times have I seen people argue over the difficulty of these, many saying they should be lower, others saying they should be higher. But most often a given song is difficult because of a certain section. Maybe instead of giving an average difficulty, songs should be based more on the patterns (eg. stream, jumpstream, handstream, speed, jacks, length, etc ...). Of course, there would need to be several ratings for each of these factors, and the given difficulty of the song (1-12 with the current system) would be chosen based on an average of all of these factors (or something of the like).

This way, if someone was having trouble on a certain VC, they would look here and tell themselves 'Hmm, speed is at 5/10 so that shouldn't be a problem, but jacks are a 7/10, perhaps that's why I'm having trouble.'

Of course, this would change the whole system, but this is not a suggestion aiming to bump all difficulties down, it is to make them clearer. I am not saying it will stop there being borderline songs because they will always be there. I am also not saying people will stop disagreeing with these difficulties, because once again, it is all based on opinions.

[IgroMAN]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I'm totally agree with qqwref:

Why can't we keep [Oni] at the same difficulty? There are plenty of people who have gotten it on songs that would definitely not be considered FMO now, and that's annoying to me because I don't have [Oni]. Given my ranks on low to mid FMOs, I know I'm at least in the top 428 players here; and yet 428 people have [Oni] and I don't. I don't think that the requirements for a skill token should get harder just because players who have already done the requirement 50 times over think it's too easy.

And disagree with EAGAMES:

I think everything should be like bumped down, like all the [Oni] get songs should be VCs.

As you can see I'm in top 100 by all rankings BUT I still havent get [Oni] and raising up requirements will make this token impossible for me for a years. Thank you.

[Patashu]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I assumed that the implication was [Oni] songs would stay [Oni] only now they'd be the toughest VCs instead of the easiest FMOs.

[stavie33]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

As you can see I'm in top 100 by all rankings BUT I still havent get [Oni] and raising up requirements will make this token impossible for me for a years. Thank you.

Oni was supposed to be THE impossible token that no one would get but 6-7 people. When it first came out, only people at the level of Shash, Darkshark, and Ledwix could get it. The bar on Oni has lowered so drastically that the entire reason the token req existed has been destroyed. Now so many people have it, it's not even a big deal anymore. That's why, to restore the original difficulty Oni deserves, we should move it to only 79-82 difficulty songs instead of 76-79.

[Patashu]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

it's not going to do much good now that lots of people have [Oni]; instead of drastically redefining the requirements and either pissing people off who have it (by taking it away from them) or those who don't (by making it almost possible for them to get it), make a new token. [Edit] or something, unlocks Otaku Speedvibe [Edit].
AAA an FGO? Lolo, Reality, Frictional Nevada, Gymnastics?, Pants or Ketsarku Mozgalom.
High FMOs could qualify too: Club, RunnyMorning, Big Blue, 4 Chord Touhou, Demon Fire, Eradication, maybe FFLBF, maybe Setsujou, maybe 300...

[Coolboyrulez0]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

New 15 difficulty rating system is the solution

[Patashu]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

p. sure that's not going to happen, as much as I would like to see VC-FMO cut up a bit finer so they're not overwhelmingly huge before C (or maybe spread simfiles naturally gravitate towards the VC level...hmm)

[One Winged Angel]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

+1 for otaku speedvibe [edit], although I don't ever see it happening since we haven't had a new skill token in 50 years

AAA a FGO would be a good req for it, although I suppose stretching it out to reach 82/83 level FMOs wouldn't be terrible

It'd be nice if some sort of script could be written that automatically gives you oni once you AAA any FMO, and edit once you AAA any FGO (assuming the token gets implemented)

[IgroMAN]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

to restore the original difficulty Oni deserves, we should move it to only 79-82 difficulty songs instead of 76-79.

Why somebody get oni on Baloon Fever or VB and now I cant do same??? Why it became harder to gain this token??? I understand that everyone increasing skill in time, but its wrong to increase requirements. I expect that count of unlocked oni will grow in time but this isnt the reason to make it harder. /Sorry for my english/

[krunkykai22]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I agree with Igro. It's not fair that some people have obtained ONI from songs like sympathizer, vertex beta, and balloon fever. However, now they are mid-high VC songs. I feel that if you're going to change the requirements, at least make it the same for everyone.

[Niala]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Why can't we keep [Oni] at the same difficulty? There are plenty of people who have gotten it on songs that would definitely not be considered FMO now, and that's annoying to me because I don't have [Oni]. Given my ranks on low to mid FMOs, I know I'm at least in the top 428 players here; and yet 428 people have [Oni] and I don't. I don't think that the requirements for a skill token should get harder just because players who have already done the requirement 50 times over think it's too easy.

Tada! We have miraculous insight. Just because all the best players are getting better, all the not-as-good players have to struggle harder than they did to receive the same token? I understand that [Oni] was supposed to be really hard to get, but that was "really hard to get" back a few years ago. Just because it's not as hard any more doesn't mean we should go and up the difficulty of it, it just means people are getting better. Repeatedly, as I've seen in this thread, people complain about people getting [Oni] off of easy FMO's like NWE or LW4, but how many people would have gotten it off of easier songs like VB or Balloon Fever years ago? Hell, if either of those were still requirements for [Oni], I could probably get it. [Oni] should just stay were it is. It's hard enough to get as it is, we don't need to make it any harder.

[mhss1992]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

Oni was supposed to be THE impossible token that no one would get but 6-7 people. When it first came out, only people at the level of Shash, Darkshark, and Ledwix could get it. The bar on Oni has lowered so drastically that the entire reason the token req existed has been destroyed. Now so many people have it, it's not even a big deal anymore. That's why, to restore the original difficulty Oni deserves, we should move it to only 79-82 difficulty songs instead of 76-79.

And people who got it from a 78 difficulty song, like me, will just lose it?
Well, that's not fair. An FMO is an FMO. Difficulties should be based on comparison to other songs, not in comparison to the average skill of players. In absolute terms, the difficulty to get Oni has actually increased, but the players have gotten better.

[stavie33]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I originally mentioned the idea of a token that required AAA an FGO song to get, but Tass didn't like the idea, though now with Ketsarku being AAA'd a lot and my current SDG's on FGO's, I think it can be put into action. Also, the song I had in mind would be harder than DP and maybe even RATO, it was Emiru Maniaxx, by DJ Sharpnel and M1dy, and the file was f'ing INSANE. I was hoping it would get in and we'd have that token, but apparently we don't have permission for M1dy, and his songs are the only songs I can think of that can be stepped beyond insane (most are crazier than CRD IMO)