Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[zidart]

for me it doesn't matter recently i played with people who use wavedash and i won, there's always a way to defeat glitches.

also a good gamer always use many strategys to defeat the oponent and i don't belive someone would defeat you with only wavedash.

anyway looks like nintendo read my mind, today update, a bit more about pit's story

[dood gone krazee]

omg... and of course i only have a PS2, so no new games for me till i get a PS3, 360, and Wii :[

[Shamo0]

Cool intro scene for pit

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by Shamo0

If you don't want to play the way the pro players play. Don't. No one is forcing you to play the way they play. If you don't like it, that's your opinion. But complaining about it? That's completely retarded. And second off if you want to even call wavedashing a "glitch" you cannot say it doesn't require skill because it definitely does. If it didn't, a lot more people would do it if they knew about it.


Also who said I was hyped up? I simply posted about what I saw. An observation people. Ob-ser-va-tion.

I was interested a few years back. I knew I was good at the game and wanted to see how I fared against other self-proclaimed 'good' players.

Then I found out that they ban items. Then I found out that you pretty much can't win unless you wavedash. Then I decided it wasn't even worth it. If that's what it took just to have a friendly match to compare skills, then why even bother?

It's a shame, because I've never lost a match against another person. My friends refuse to play me, even 2 on 1, because they know they'll lose no matter who I choose. I do random character on random stage and let them pick whoever they want. It doesn't matter.

I said you seemed quick to point out wavedashing because it's all you ever talk about when we discuss Super Smash Bros. Also because of your enthusiasm that spewed forth in your previous post. Look back at just how much you wrote trying to convince us.

[whyudothis]

Wow smash bros brawl looks like a pretty fun game guys.

WHATS THIS!

NO ITEMS
NO WEAPONS
1V1
FOX ONLY
FINAL DESTINATION

THIS IS HOW WE HARDCORE PLAY! THIS IS REAL FUN!

[zidart]

what squeek says is true.
in my country nobody i knew used wavedash, in fact nobody knew about it, i went to some tournaments and no one ever done something like that.

ban items is like riping the core of the game (wich is battles full of chaos) i personally don't care about this i can win without items but still i think is more fun with them.

but well is better to see the look on your faces when i send flying someone that only used wavedash the whole fight

[Rszkwski623]

NOOOOO!!!!!, The Elitist debate has been brought to the thread!

its rediculous how contagious it is to game forums.

[masterhickle]

So we're back to this again, eh?

Wavedashing isn't an exploit of a glitch, if anything, it's an exploit of the game's physics if anything (as Relambrien said).

Banning items doesn't "rip the core of the game." If Nintendo didn't want us to ban items in tournaments, or ban items from even friendly matches, why did they give us the Items option menu, where we can do that?

(Closing note for now, since I'm leaving for a cookout in a few minutes...)
It took a while, but I finally got the video to load.

What MetaKnight does is one of two things, as was previously stated : a backwards roll, or a backwards wavedash. I don't know anything about MetaKnight's physics, but if his are anything like Kirby's are in Melee, then it is more likely a backwards roll.

[ckj846]

Originally Posted by Shamo0

If you don't want to play the way the pro players play. Don't. No one is forcing you to play the way they play. If you don't like it, that's your opinion. But complaining about it? That's completely retarded. And second off if you want to even call wavedashing a "glitch" you cannot say it doesn't require skill because it definitely does. If it didn't, a lot more people would do it if they knew about it.


Also who said I was hyped up? I simply posted about what I saw. An observation people. Ob-ser-va-tion.

Where am I complaining? I was trying to help you out in your confusion and your rage against Squeek. I'm not the tightly wound up one ready to snap, you are. Chill man.

O_o

[masterhickle]

Originally Posted by ckj846

Where am I complaining? I was trying to help you out in your confusion and your rage against Squeek. I'm not the tightly wound up one ready to snap, you are. Chill man.

O_o

The only way that you're complaining, as I see it, is that you disagree with a lot of players agreeing that wavedashing is legitimate, item bans are legitimate, etc etc.

However, I agree that ShamoO needs to chill out.

Neither way can be said for sure which is better, but we can still argue our positions.

[slickskater29]

YES! SSBM drama, i thought it was all over. MLG has it right. The rules are set up so that nothing but raw skill wins matches. End.

[KKKEEENNN]

I like wavedashing, but really, it's doesn't really win you matches, it just makes you faster but that's it. Besides,I don't believe wavedash will be in Brawl it since it's using the Havok Physics engine, so it probably not possible, but we will have to wait to see when it is released.

[Squeek]

Le sigh. Can we please be done with this?

I don't know if you've read my three thousand other posts about this, but I've said it many times before. Removing items removes my skill. I don't even care what the item is. It could be Mr. Saturn! The most pointless item in the entire game! That's all I ask for! Something to throw.

Now look. I don't care about competition. I don't care about rules, tournaments, champions, whatever. I just want to see if anyone is as good as I am at this game. Unfortunately, even in completely un-regulated non-tournament situations, you would all justify a loss against me as not being able to wavedash, or me needing items to win.

Isn't that sad?

Anyway, since Brawl (the game this thread is about!) is confirmed to be online play, I'll be much more able to test my skill against other players. Of course, if wavedashing happens to be in this game, I'll forbid it being used against me because I consider it cheating. And of course, I'd leave items in because they're intended for gameplay.

If you can't win under the standard rules of play, then it's pretty sad. To me, needing wavedashing is like needing sunglasses in a poker tournament because you can't hide your facial expression when you get a good hand. And to me, asking to remove items is like asking to remove all the cards that would give you a bad hand.

[masterhickle]

I agree with Squeek and KKKEEENNN.

Can we please be done with this?

Wavedashing is helpful, but it won't guarantee you a win. A friend of mine doesn't use any ATs (outside of L cancelling, I think), and he's easily better than I am.



On the brawl note...

I'm curious to hear what characters people are considering as mains (unless you like to play randomly). Right now, I'm thinking about maining Pit =P.

[tsugomaru]

To be honest, giving us an option menu to disable items doesn't mean they're asking us to ban items.

They're giving us the option to disable, not the command to ban.

~Tsugomaru

[KKKEEENNN]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Le sigh. Can we please be done with this?

I don't know if you've read my three thousand other posts about this, but I've said it many times before. Removing items removes my skill. I don't even care what the item is. It could be Mr. Saturn! The most pointless item in the entire game! That's all I ask for! Something to throw.

Certain people don't mind items on, like me, but you are going to always see some common "pro" saying that item are for chumps. I think you have to get the idea that you have to ignore that.

Originally Posted by Squeek

Now look. I don't care about competition. I don't care about rules, tournaments, champions, whatever. I just want to see if anyone is as good as I am at this game. Unfortunately, even in completely un-regulated non-tournament situations, you would all justify a loss against me as not being able to wavedash, or me needing items to win.

Isn't that sad?

Maybe, but they don't like random things to happen, so they cut that off to make it fair for them. I can beat you with items on, and probably without the use of wavedash, but wavedashing is like an addition once someone do it a lot, so it's not that easy to not wavedash you know.

Originally Posted by Squeek

Anyway, since Brawl (the game this thread is about!) is confirmed to be online play, I'll be much more able to test my skill against other players. Of course, if wavedashing happens to be in this game, I'll forbid it being used against me because I consider it cheating. And of course, I'd leave items in because they're intended for gameplay.

If you can't win under the standard rules of play, then it's pretty sad. To me, needing wavedashing is like needing sunglasses in a poker tournament because you can't hide your facial expression when you get a good hand. And to me, asking to remove items is like asking to remove all the cards that would give you a bad hand.

Cheating? I don't consider it cheating in any way. Now, having 0% after every hit that a character has taken or KO'ing everybody with a weak attack (like standard A). That's cheating. Wavedashing is not cheating. The character still can get hit no matter where in the wavedash. It's not always guarantee to be perform perfectly, even the most skill people mess up. If used wrong at a edge of a stage, the character will dodge the edge and SD. Wavedashing is useful, but it has its flaws like anything else.

Besides, putting sunglasses on in poker barely changes anything. Eyes may tell a good hand in poker, but if you familiarize the opponents with their body gestures, you can also see if they have a good hand or not.

[IronJesus]

Good point. If you don't know how to exploit the game to do a "wavedash" it can get annoying though. Like my buddy who plays as Falco. He uses every little thing he can to boost his speed and it's so hard to hit him. (I eventually got him, then got pwned. :P). Another expample would be doing a double-shot in Halo 2. Great exploit but my god can it get annoying when you can't do it and you face people who can.

[Squeek]

Sorry, but to me, wavedashing will always be cheating.

Why? It's exploiting game code to your advantage.

If you can't play without it, it just means you suck at the game. Simple as that.

I 100% completed the game without needing to wavedash. That includes the Diskun trophy, which sucked to get, both for No-Damage Clear and Very Hard No-Continue clear. That's a perfectly good accomplishment to me as most people can't even get all 290 trophies.

But please. Can we just DROP this. This thread is not about what was in Super Smash Brothers Melee tournaments. It's about Super Smash Brothers Brawl. Nothing of the sort has been confirmed or denied, so there's no telling what's going to happen.

The only thing we can argue concerning Melee and Brawl is the items, and I've already said my piece on that.

[masterhickle]

Giving us the item options menu gives us the option to do what we wish with items.

At that, I drop this, and try to get this thread back to what it's supposed to be about. We're beating a dead horse at this point - every side of this debate has been covered.

To each his own style, as long as you have fun with it.

[tsugomaru]

And if you're a good player, you should also be able to dodge thrown items at you. It's not completely random that you will get hit, you can control that.

Or item power ups for the matter. I know every single item and how to deal with their abilities.

~Tsugomaru