TWG CLXXXI - TWGreeD - Game Thread

[MixMasterLar]

Also all I said was I was going to pick between inactives.


When the fuck did that turn into "Lynch Pearl"

It smells of ulterior motives if you ask me, and while Charu first mentioned anti pearl, it's InD's vote that smells the worst

[Charu]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Also all I said was I was going to pick between inactives.


When the fuck did that turn into "Lynch Pearl"

It smells of ulterior motives if you ask me, and while Charu first mentioned anti pearl, it's InD's vote that smells the worst

I take full responsibilities for wanting this to happen. I don't trust their slot regardless of their alignment, and that's the absolute truth. Like right now, they have, once again, proven to me that they're not going to play again. They did though play seeing as how they're still in the game by sending SOMETHING to the host.

[Syhto]

Yeah, I am not comfortable with this anti-anti-pearl continuation from previous games. If he is going to get in trouble for lack of posts, I say let that happen and play out as it will. It is way too easy for the wolves to off anti-pearl with no need to worry about flips showing any association with one another.

Sure, inactivity has been an issue recently with a number of players. But eh, I would rather read based on what is actually happening than to eliminate those who aren't up to par with participation. At this point. I only ever used to play games with no cardflips... so this is pretty normal to me. One of the reasons I wanted to play.

Anyone who is jumping on anti-pearl I am pretty weary of. I agree with manti though, that sunfan could go either way.

[Charu]

Originally Posted by Syhto

Yeah, I am not comfortable with this anti-anti-pearl continuation from previous games. If he is going to get in trouble for lack of posts, I say let that happen and play out as it will. It is way too easy for the wolves to off anti-pearl with no need to worry about flips showing any association with one another.

Didn't you literally use Anti-Pearl's inactivity to use as a means to win the game I linked, lol?

[Syhto]

Originally Posted by Charu

Didn't you literally use Anti-Pearl's inactivity to use as a means to win the game I linked, lol?

Yes, lmao

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Precarious

So unless I'm blind, no one has talked about this post much, and we really should. Because this is a dumbtell, right?



MML seems to be advocating for stating claims, and doing so would be potentially catastrophic. Obviously the wolves themselves would be aware of their own powers--so the question is whether the dumbtell is genuine or calculated. Given that roundbox sort of alluded to the sabotage issue in his prisoner's dilemma post, and MML apparently rolled right through that, I'm inclined to believe it's genuine and therefore exculpatory. MML's follow-up post:



Seems to be more or less in line with that mode of thinking; it seems to be kind of an "Oh, I see."

***

Having said that, I also STRONGLY disagree with the idea of only announcing info given observable effects. Any blue roles expire at the end of each phase, and everyone can request a role/non-role again that same night. Thus, one's green or blue status is not fixed, and a roleclaim the next day doesn't make a player any more likely to be targeted in the future, since all roles are fluid.

Therefore, anyone and everyone that has a role should absolutely claim what they did the next day--it provides information without enabling wolf sabotage (since the next set of requests would have already been made) or making the claimant a more likely target.

What part of that is a dumbtell?
What the fuck are you going on about?
I'm against claiming btw since that looks to be in question.

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

Both you and indy have indirectly/directly presented an avenue to remove a player from the game not due to content or fact or rationale. You have both said the equivalent of “let’s lynch antiperal because he’ll be a no show. This feels like an attempt to powerwolf through a weak town player.

What worries me more is that people think it might be a decent idea. If I read correctly we don’t get cardflips, so not knowing antipearl’s alignment when he dies gives us nothing and no one to blame on either side. It’s a waste of a day phase pursuing it and simple feels wolf driven.



I like sytho because she felt similarly about your cagey “I’ll lynch anyone under 5 posts post”

And I have all sorts of different feelings on sunfan right now, I like his current position on pearl, but that read could vacillate somewhat wildly as the game progresses depending on what pearl does or doesn’t do.

This is a lot more then I expected and I like it.

You 're wrong tho.

Originally Posted by Syhto

Yeah, I am not comfortable with this anti-anti-pearl continuation from previous games. If he is going to get in trouble for lack of posts, I say let that happen and play out as it will. It is way too easy for the wolves to off anti-pearl with no need to worry about flips showing any association with one another.

Sure, inactivity has been an issue recently with a number of players. But eh, I would rather read based on what is actually happening than to eliminate those who aren't up to par with participation. At this point. I only ever used to play games with no cardflips... so this is pretty normal to me. One of the reasons I wanted to play.

Anyone who is jumping on anti-pearl I am pretty weary of. I agree with manti though, that sunfan could go either way.

I fucking refuse to get to final five with 4 inactives

[Precarious]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

What part of that is a dumbtell?
What the fuck are you going on about?
I'm against claiming btw since that looks to be in question.

Quoting the relevant post again:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

I thought about just claiming if you asked for a role or not.

I read this as, "rather than roleclaiming, we could just say if we requested a role."

Wolves probably already have an idea since their roles are affected by how many of us ask to be blue so that information probably benefits town a little more---but in the event only 2 of us asked that straight up tells the wolves who's the strongest and who to kill so I don't really favor this plan either.

Your reasoning, apparently, is that wolves can probably approximate our blue roles by their status. It's true that the number of town blues affects wolf blue powers, and vice versa. But there's absolutely no indicator of how that works--and that's a good thing for us, because your plan ignores the fact that the wolves can sabotage our roles and even steal one if they guess the number of claimants correctly.

You do, ultimately, decide that your bad idea is in fact a bad idea, but for an unrelated reason.

-but in the event only 2 of us asked that straight up tells the wolves who's the strongest and who to kill so I don't really favor this plan either.

Basically, you dismissed the idea because if it happens that very few people requested a role, then the wolves would be able to target one of a small number of blues. At no point do you intimate any awareness that informing the wolves of our numbers would enable them to use their guessing power accurately.

Thus, your idea--even if dismissed for unrelated reasons--ignores the very obvious structural reason that it would be catastrophic. Hence the dumbtell--the wolves would be aware of what they can do, and how they'd benefit from that strategy. Your subsequent post:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Didn't see that second Roundbox post. That's quite the padded post you got there.

I think it's absolutely best if we keep mum on it for now, possibly for most of the game.

Seems to confirm my interpretation. I basically read the above as:

"I didn't see roundbox's post before. Now that I've read it"--and note that roundbox's post alludes to the possibility of the wolf sabotage--"it's best to keep quiet on those discussions."

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Also all I said was I was going to pick between inactives.


When the fuck did that turn into "Lynch Pearl"

It smells of ulterior motives if you ask me, and while Charu first mentioned anti pearl, it's InD's vote that smells the worst

i think you answered your own question to manti there

[DarkManticoreX2]

Both you and indy have indirectly/directly presented an avenue to remove a player from the game not due to content or fact or rationale. You have both said the equivalent of “let’s lynch antiperal because he’ll be a no show. This feels like an attempt to powerwolf through a weak town player.

What worries me more is that people think it might be a decent idea. If I read correctly we don’t get cardflips, so not knowing antipearl’s alignment when he dies gives us nothing and no one to blame on either side. It’s a waste of a day phase pursuing it and simple feels wolf driven.



I like sytho because she felt similarly about your cagey “I’ll lynch anyone under 5 posts post”

And I have all sorts of different feelings on sunfan right now, I like his current position on pearl, but that read could vacillate somewhat wildly as the game progresses depending on what pearl does or doesn’t do.

[Charu]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

And I have all sorts of different feelings on sunfan right now, I like his current position on pearl, but that read could vacillate somewhat wildly as the game progresses depending on what pearl does or doesn’t do.

I can garuntee you one thing.

If they do come out of hiding and actually play, it'll be, at most, one post, and the rest would be about lamenating about how they're being targeted as an inactive.

Source: Read this game and look for Anti-Pearl's posts.

[DarkManticoreX2]

So Haku, I need you to answer this question, because it’s going to directly feed into whether or not I try to lynch you or not. You ask “How do you solve games if not by pushing narratives” and while you should be pushing narratives you believe to be true, you should also be evaluating your own narratives to see if they make sense. When you made the long post you linked me to, both of the posts I quoted below were in the thread and they directly correlate to each other, so why would you say the first post is useless without explanations when the second post already exists?

To be fair you quoted both posts, but out of order and the second post is explained as “I don’t think Manti actually thinks this”. So when I say there’s a difference between trying to solve a player which is a towny thing to do, and push a narrative to lynch without reevaluating which is a scummy thing to do. Your post leans closer to the second because it doesn’t look like you took the two posts together and went “oh there is reasoning for why Manti thinks those things” maybe that post wasn’t completely useless like i’m Saying it is.

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

Things Manti thinks currently

MML bad
Ind bad
Sunfan good or sunfan+pearl bad or sunfan wolf!defending town! Pearl for cred
Sytho good

That is all the things I think.

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

Both you and indy have indirectly/directly presented an avenue to remove a player from the game not due to content or fact or rationale. You have both said the equivalent of “let’s lynch antiperal because he’ll be a no show. This feels like an attempt to powerwolf through a weak town player.

What worries me more is that people think it might be a decent idea. If I read correctly we don’t get cardflips, so not knowing antipearl’s alignment when he dies gives us nothing and no one to blame on either side. It’s a waste of a day phase pursuing it and simple feels wolf driven.



I like sytho because she felt similarly about your cagey “I’ll lynch anyone under 5 posts post”

And I have all sorts of different feelings on sunfan right now, I like his current position on pearl, but that read could vacillate somewhat wildly as the game progresses depending on what pearl does or doesn’t do.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Charu

Actually, no scratch that, that vote.

MellonxCollie

That's a better vote.

If she doesn't post, it's very likely she either gets replaced out or modkilled or something.

Technically the only reason why I wouldn't vote her.

If you're voting her to get her attention tho, good.

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

So Haku, I need you to answer this question, because it’s going to directly feed into whether or not I try to lynch you or not. You ask “How do you solve games if not by pushing narratives” and while you should be pushing narratives you believe to be true, you should also be evaluating your own narratives to see if they make sense. When you made the long post you linked me to, both of the posts I quoted below were in the thread and they directly correlate to each other, so why would you say the first post is useless without explanations when the second post already exists?

To be fair you quoted both posts, but out of order and the second post is explained as “I don’t think Manti actually thinks this”. So when I say there’s a difference between trying to solve a player which is a towny thing to do, and push a narrative to lynch without reevaluating which is a scummy thing to do. Your post leans closer to the second because it doesn’t look like you took the two posts together and went “oh there is reasoning for why Manti thinks those things” maybe that post wasn’t completely useless like i’m Saying it is.

Your expectations of me are way too high. I do that with like everyone and I usually vote based on a margin of confidence. I voted you in hope to get your attention to see how you would play things out and you did fine. I moved on.

Looks like DBP would have prefered that I tunnel on you when I don't have something good enough to convince anyone of anything. Waste of time.

[Funnygurl555]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

If she doesn't post, it's very likely she either gets replaced out or modkilled or something.

Technically the only reason why I wouldn't vote her.

If you're voting her to get her attention tho, good.

kinda how i feel/why i dropped talking about her

[Wayward Vagabond]

Wouldn't it benefit the wolves more keeping antipearl around rather than just going for an easy d1 lynch? I was always under the assumption that trivial players are better to keep around because in later games a mislynch is harder to go by if you have solid towns remaining.

[Charu]

Originally Posted by Wayward Vagabond

Wouldn't it benefit the wolves more keeping antipearl around rather than just going for an easy d1 lynch? I was always under the assumption that trivial players are better to keep around because in later games a mislynch is harder to go by if you have solid towns remaining.

In most situations, yeah. In this game, even more so, lol.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Also hi rb thank u for noticing me ^~^

[Precarious]

As far as Anti-Pearl is concerned, I don't think activity is necessarily a huge indicator of alignment by itself, but it's a player's actions that lets them be evaluated. If Pearl posts just enough to avoid replacement, they remain a cypher that continues on into the later game, with no evidence to make a case for or against them. It also raises a mechanical concern: if town, can they be counted on to vote? If scum, will they throw in a fatal vote when we're least expecting it?

With most players, total inactivity to this point would be concerning, but possibly coincidental. Pearl has a history of this now.

The thing is, that still doesn't necessarily mean they're the best choice of lynch. I feel like lynching the "most likely wolf" is a better option than a useless cypher--and FG's point about interactions is valid. Plus, assuming Pearl is truly inactive, zero posts today should allow for a replacement.

But I'd be kind of okay with a Pearl lynch, albeit for slightly different reasons than Charu's essentially policy stance. Pearl may not be the best lynch, but they're probably the least worst lynch--right now, we have no expectation of contribution, and without flips they become even more dangerous as the game progresses.

[Wayward Vagabond]

mml suck on that nerds

[Charu]

Oop, that was the wrong game

[Charu]

It was definitely this one, promise!